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Union Messing with me again

thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Just found out today that I lost an employee to the union. Rumor has it they are talking to others also. I think their tatics suck. Come home tonight and see this commercial on the TV about 10 times now. Yeah from what I read here if they try to unionize a company the employees votes will not be private anymore and there will be no waiting period from talks to voting and the union will officiate the tally.

Link to commercial on TV

US Chamber of Commerce.

Because union density has dropped so low (to about 7.5 percent in the private sector), organized labor is seeking to change the rules and make it easier to organize. The card check bill would do just that – instead of determining whether a union would be certified through a federally-supervised secret ballot election, the union would be certified the moment it collected a majority of signed authorization cards. The Card Check Bill would therefore eliminate the campaign period and the legal requirements that regulate it, not to mention eliminating the ability of employees to make an informed decision in private. Instead, employee decisions on unionization would be made in front of union organizers greatly increasing the opportunity for coercion and pressure in the union organizing process.
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Finally, the Card Check Bill would increase penalties for employers, but not for unions or others, who violate union organizing laws.
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To me employees not being able to vote in private will force them to vote yes for the union because if it does go through and the union knows they voted NO it could affect them in the future.

Personally I don't think we need unions anymore. I think there is enough government programs now in place to protect employees. I also think in the United States a person and company should have the right to be union or not. If the employee don't like a company they should have the right to move on and go to a union ran company. But to force a company into the union is just plain wrong in my book.

murph
 
American Woman

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
I don't know if maybe I just don't know, but I don't hear too much about Unions here anymore. Most people will vote no because the Union closes a lot of businesses with so many demands, and people would rather work.
 
REDDOGTWO

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
Just think if they do unionize, you will need to double the amount of employees to get the same amount of work done.:dizzy:
 
BigAl

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
I agree . There was I time when unions were a great thing and very much needed but those days have passed . As Bob S. pointed out and I gave him a bad time for , there is a lot of corruption in unions now . Mostly at top top level . We are pricing ourselves out of the world market, more every day .
I watched 57 guys lose their job because of one "Piece of Crap " union worker . He was going to get fired for goofing off and being a really bad worker and purposely abusing equiptment . The union backed him and the company folded and reopened non union . 57 good hard workin guys for a piece of shit !!! Thats wrong .
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
American Woman said:
I don't know if maybe I just don't know, but I don't hear too much about Unions here anymore. Most people will vote no because the Union closes a lot of businesses with so many demands, and people would rather work.
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Minnesota is still pretty liberal and the union controls a lot of things yet. Our City about ten years ago signed a bunch of contracts with the union to only allow union contractors to bid on city projects. If you were not union you could not bid on the jobs even though your company paid taxes like the union companies. ABC tried sueing but lost.
 
Erik

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
some of the unions can be a good deal - like the actual trade unions (electrical, etc)
some aren't (UAW, aircraft manuf, etc...)
look at what happened to Boeing - almost bankrupt, then they sold out to spirit aviation who is not "non-union" but they accept an unapproved strike as the equivalent of a letter of resignation.
In their first year in wichita, they cut out 3/4 of the deadwood and started making decent planes and a profit all at the same time.

good luck.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Erik said:
some of the unions can be a good deal - like the actual trade unions (electrical, etc)
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I am in the trades. HVAC. In a time when we have to lower out rates just to get jobs if my company went union it would have to raise it rates by 25%. They would force my company to close.

The other thing I don't like is you have one guy that works his ass and is maybe even worth more than what the union scale is paying but the guy next to him is a lazy arse and gets the same pay as the hard working one. To me it don't make any sense
 
American Woman

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
BigAl said:
I agree .
I watched 57 guys lose their job because of one "Piece of Crap " union worker . He was going to get fired for goofing off and being a really bad worker and purposely abusing equiptment . The union backed him and the company folded and reopened non union . 57 good hard workin guys for a piece of shit !!! Thats wrong .
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I've heard too many people say they would rather be working that have been thru stuff like this. As an employee I would worry if the Union was trying to get in.
 
Erik

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
thcri said:
I am in the trades. HVAC. In a time when we have to lower out rates just to get jobs if my company went union it would have to raise it rates by 25%. They would force my company to close.

The other thing I don't like is you have one guy that works his ass and is maybe even worth more than what the union scale is paying but the guy next to him is a lazy arse and gets the same pay as the hard working one. To me it don't make any sense
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again - that's why i said "some" - and I suspect it has a lot to do with location.
I've heard really good things about the IBEW chapter in Wichita, and not so stellar about their chapters in other locations.
Living in a "right to work" state has spoiled me.
neither I nor my wife are members of the state employees union, but despite that she is covered under the MOU provisions the state and union agreed to. (I was pretty unhappy when i found out I'm not, but other people in my office at the same pay grade are, because of their "official job title" - which has little to do with job duties)
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Why is it that everytime I turn around I hear Ted Kennedy's name.

ABC


Employee Free Choice Act, a measure introduced by Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) that would require employers to recognize unions based solely on “card check” elections, foregoing the right to a secret-ballot election.
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Erik

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
are you a member of the union?
if yes and you opt to become a "non-union" outfit, then the union can kick you out and you can potentially lose everything you've got saved up in the union retirement plan to date?

if it's already a "non-union" shop, then depending on how many employees you have the union cannot impose wage requirements upon you as it could cause "undue financial burden".
Or at least that's my understanding of how these things work, but since I'm not a small business owner, i could also be totally wrong in my thinking on this matter, (I'm not assuming anything!) especially in light of Mr. Kennedy's legislation you cited earlier.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Erik,

I am a Non-Union Shop. But they can come in and talk to my employees without my knowledge and try to convert them. I have no say in it. If they can get a % of the votes (not sure the exact number) my company will be forced to go union. With Ted's new law as I understand it when the employees are brought together for discussion they would be asked to vote immediately and each employees vote would be open for everyone to know how he voted. This tactic does not allow an employee to think about what he should vote and the fact that his vote is open to everyone he may vote yes just due to the fact that if it goes through the union will know how he voted.

murph
 
Erik

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
Dayum.
i misunderstood the implications of the new law.
that just plain sucks!
you really do have my sympathy on this one.

I'm still surprised there's no protections built in for the small business owner - especially in a "right to work" state, which I always understood to mean "union optional" in an oversimplified way.

good luck.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Erik said:
I'm still surprised there's no protections built in for the small business owner - especially in a "right to work" state, which I always understood to mean "union optional" in an oversimplified way.

good luck.
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My understanding of "Right to Work" is I can let a person go and not give that person any reason as to why I am letting him go. But be careful because if you do give a reason you open youself up to lawsuits. In a Union situation you are under other contracts and the Right to Work is not needed cause if you slow down you can send them back to the bench, but if you just want to get rid of the guy as Al said earlier the Union will step in and protect the employee so Right to Work means nothing.
 
waybomb

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Treat people right, respect them, but if talks of union come up, even a hint of it, remind them that two parties have to sign the contract, and if you are not agreeable to it, you won't sign, they'll figure out what that means to their job and your business(don't tell them, that's unfair labor practices) and move on.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
waybomb said:
remind them that two parties have to sign the contract, and if you are not agreeable to it, you won't sign,
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They don't have to have me sign, if they have a majority they can force me into the union. If they have the majority and I don't go along they pull all the employees to other locations. About my only recourse is to close the doors. A good friend of mine in a city 30 miles north the union came in, got all the employees to vote the union in, he didn't have a choice. He is now union and has lost all of his housing construction.

Today they visited some of my employees on the job. My employees told them they didn't have the right to come on the project and the union said they did because my employees were on break. I called the union office and told them they needed it in writing to be on that site as it is a safety issue.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
American Woman said:
Well thank God your employees ran him off! Sounds like a good bunch you got.
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Yeah but the problem is just starting. The job is a "Prevailing Wage" job. The big Union guys told my employees they would make sure they got the pay scale they had coming to them. I always am honest about paying on a "Prevailing Wage" job but I am sure my records will be audited which is a pain in the Arse.
 
waybomb

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
thcri said:
They don't have to have me sign, if they have a majority they can force me into the union. If they have the majority and I don't go along they pull all the employees to other locations. About my only recourse is to close the doors. A good friend of mine in a city 30 miles north the union came in, got all the employees to vote the union in, he didn't have a choice. He is now union and has lost all of his housing construction.

Today they visited some of my employees on the job. My employees told them they didn't have the right to come on the project and the union said they did because my employees were on break. I called the union office and told them they needed it in writing to be on that site as it is a safety issue.
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Didn't realize you had trade guys.

Anyway, I'd buy 'em all lunch for no reason. They'll figure it out.
Whatever you do, get advice on what you can and can not say.
 
ddrane2115

ddrane2115

Charter Member
SUPER Site Supporter
thcri said:
My understanding of "Right to Work" is I can let a person go and not give that person any reason as to why I am letting him go. But be careful because if you do give a reason you open youself up to lawsuits. In a Union situation you are under other contracts and the Right to Work is not needed cause if you slow down you can send them back to the bench, but if you just want to get rid of the guy as Al said earlier the Union will step in and protect the employee so Right to Work means nothing.
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you are thinking of what we have, an 'at will' work law. they or we can at will terminate, promote or do nothing to any employee at anytime with no need for reason
 
ddrane2115

ddrane2115

Charter Member
SUPER Site Supporter
thcri said:
They don't have to have me sign, if they have a majority they can force me into the union. If they have the majority and I don't go along they pull all the employees to other locations. About my only recourse is to close the doors. A good friend of mine in a city 30 miles north the union came in, got all the employees to vote the union in, he didn't have a choice. He is now union and has lost all of his housing construction.

Today they visited some of my employees on the job. My employees told them they didn't have the right to come on the project and the union said they did because my employees were on break. I called the union office and told them they needed it in writing to be on that site as it is a safety issue.
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man this really sucks, you have done all this, had work for those that want it, and some dipstick with the union comes in and can FORCE you to join and you have to pay more than you do now...........think I would close the doors, sell it or move it.

oh I hate unions almost as much as I do our party system for politics.
 
T

Trakternut

Active member
There was a regional freight carrier, Midwest Motor Express, which was unionized. The drivers, who were Teamsters, walked off. MME sat still for awhile, then hired scabs to take care of the freight. While the Teamsters walked around holding their signs, those trucks kept rolling. After two years, I think, the scabs had the right to vote whether or not to unionize. If they did, the regular drivers and dockworkers would have gone back to work. The scabs wouldn't have had seniority to hold any jobs, though. So the scabs voted the union out. Upon this event, the regular employees automatically had no job! Maybe you could put a twist on that scenario and make it work for you. It doesn't sound like your people want to be out of work, or belong to the union.
Besides, you can post signs around your place of business that prohibits soliciting, putting the Union reps in violation, and you can file charges against them. Harass them in this manner until they give up and stay away.
It's you place of biz, you can dictate who does, and does not enter the premises.
Now, go get 'em!
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
American Woman said:
That's a good idea! Can you do that:huh:
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I can keep them off/out of my place of business. However, last year they would sit out in front of our building and follow my guys to the job sites. They followed a guy for 3.5 hours last year one day.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Erik said:
and you can't file a nuisance complaint against them?
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Erik I think I can if they do it too much when my guys are on the time clock. But that is a hard thing to catch or prove. I will ask the proper people tomorrow.
 
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