• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

f250 super duty oil pump

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
my ford lacks power when pulling heavy loads. so I had ford check it out.
the high pressure oil pump is failing and it isn't opening the injectors under heavy load. normal running you wouldn't notice anything wrong and lots of power.
6.0 2004 $2600 replacement 10 hr job.
it has regular oil in it but thinking of a synthetic prior to getting it done and see if it improves or fails completely.
I pull 11,000 lbs loaded trailer with it and use to top a nearby hill at 50 now it is 20mph.
JIM
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
How many miles on the truck? What other problems do you see if any?

I had a 2006 King Ranch F350 with the 6.0 and only 65K miles on it when it started developing multiple problems. I pulled a snow cat and trailer with it some but most of the time was used unloaded. EGR, injectors, weak glow plugs and other problems such as bad head bolts are a problem on the 6.0. With a loaded trailer with a hard pull up the mountain it was starting to spit anti freeze out the overflow tank occasionally. I decide to cut my losses as the costs to redo the 6.0 were headed to the 10K+ mark.

I could not even get a decent trade in at the local Ford dealership as they did not want it. With all the problems the dealers have seen they love to sell them but almost refuse to take one back on trade. I finally got rid of it and all the headache problems that go along with the 6.0. I dropped to about 6K below book price to trade this at another dealership 175 miles away from home. They had a buyer (backyard mechanic) that was doing the needed work on these trucks with the 6.0 and reselling them. I got 5K+ more than the Ford dealer would give me. The buyer was aware of the problems but really wanted the truck as it was in immaculate condition inside and out except for the engine problems.

Here is a good source for finding problem areas associated with the problematic 6.0 engine.

http://www.powerstrokehub.com/6.0-power-stroke-problems.html

I now use the F250 V10 gas hog that I have owned for 15 years for pulling when needed. Yes it does lack the power of a diesel but at least the engine will stay together without having to give up and arm and leg to keep it running. Another big plus with the gas engine is I can park it remote and it will start down to -20F+ with no problems. The diesel seemed to struggle at 0F to start when not plugged in to power. :w00t2:
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
Jim if your pump s failing you had better plan on injectors too, if it is only oil pressure I would try replacing the regulator first. most of the time the problem you describe is from the power board going bad and not supplying enough power to the injectors. sorry I cant remember the ford name for it no coffee yet this morning. if you do replace it than synthetic would be a good change try shell 5 w 40 I can give you a name of a wholesaler to get it from in your area.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Are you talking the high pressure injector pump?

What are we talking about engine oil for? What does engine oil pressure or type have to do with the injectors?

Somebody explain how engine oil relates to fuel oil injection and power.
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
Are you talking the high pressure injector pump?

What are we talking about engine oil for? What does engine oil pressure or type have to do with the injectors?

Somebody explain how engine oil relates to fuel oil injection and power.

HEUI (hydraulically actuated electronically controlled unit injector) injectors rely on high pressure oil to pressurize fuel in the injector body, as opposed to utilizing a high pressure injection pump. In a simplistic model, an oil pump pressurizes engine oil and sends it to the injector, and a piston/plunger in the injector uses the oil pressure to pressurize fuel before it is injected into the engine's cylinder. HEUI injection systems were advanced when they were introduced by Caterpillar in the 90's, but have since been replaced by common rail technology. The injectors are sensitive to poor fuel and oil quality. The best thing you can do to prevent failure is maintain proper fuel quality (by means of an additive if necessary) and keep your engine oil changed regularly. The 6.0L injectors in particular are prone to stiction; there are several additives on the market that prevent and in some rare cases even reverse stiction problems in these injectors. Archoil is amongst the leading manufacturers of stiction eliminating oil additives.

http://www.powerstrokehub.com/6.0-power-stroke-problems.html
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
What idiot came up with that system?
Why the heck would anybody want to pressurize engine oil to pressurize fuel oil?
Glad I don't own one nor never had to work on one.

This is a Ford engine?
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have 141,thousand on it and no other problems other that it's a ford. I may be looking for a replacement.
I am towing with it tomorrow. it pulls ok but slows down good on hills.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
What idiot came up with that system?
Why the heck would anybody want to pressurize engine oil to pressurize fuel oil?
Glad I don't own one nor never had to work on one.

This is a Ford engine?


It was developed by Caterpillar, and in their applications it has few issues. I have several Cat engines that use this set up..

Navastar used it in the 6.0 under license from Caterpillar. The concept is fine, take engine oil to 4,000 psi with the pump in question, apply it to a piston at the top of the injector. That piston drives one below it pushing fuel that has 1/7th the cross sectional area of the larger upper oil driven one. At 4,000 psi, you get 28,000 psi at the injector tip.. This generates a lot of heat that must be delt with. As with so many things the devil is in the details, and Navastar did not really get it right.

My 6.0 is still with me at 275K miles. It has cost me to keep it how ever. Another $2,500 for a turbo this last week, as the 2 year old one started leaking oil past the exhaust housing into the exhaust system. It was looking like a crude oil pipe at the exhaust tip.. and the engine was using oil to..

If you get rid of the emission controls, especially the EGR system it does help the 6.0's a lot with problems. I did mine 70K miles ago and have had little problems since. NAPA warranties injectors for this engine for 3 years, and Ford only gives a one year warranty. Go figure. :ermm:

The 6.0 liter is a strong engine with few issues, except the crap Ford bolts to it in a pick up application. In Navastar trucks it is called a VT365 and has lots less problems in those than those Ford trucks do. Ford turns them up to 325 hp, and Navastar only lets them have 250-275 Hp.. With a static compression ratio of 19 to 1, and nearly 30psi of boost being throw in the mix, cylinder preasure is very high. No wonder they have had head gasket issues. That compression ratio is usually around 15 to 1 in similar engines. To get 325 hp and 580 ft/lbs of torque out of only 365 cubic inches is stretching the string pretty tight.. Ford may have over done it a bit..

Real truck engines that run 325 hp are in the 800-900 cubic inch range, and turn at 2/3 the RPM of the pick up diesels. They make in the neighbor hood of 1,200 to 1,400 ft/lb of torque, and have twice the oil and coolant capacities of these turned to the max pick up truck diesels. And they last 5 times as long in many cases to..

Regards, Kirk
 
Last edited:

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I still like the old Bosch mechanical system. Completely easy.
Common rail makes so much more sense then the Cat/Ford/IH system.
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
SUPER Site Supporter
I have 141,thousand on it and no other problems other that it's a ford. I may be looking for a replacement.
I am towing with it tomorrow. it pulls ok but slows down good on hills.

Your problem is very similar to mine of losing power in a long steep area. Check to see if you are also spitting/burping anti freeze from the overflow tank which is a sign of the EGR system problems as mentioned by others. Burping is just the start of more problems that will set you back some $$$$'s.
I hope your problems are simple and not so costly to fix. I loved the truck but ended up hating the 6.0 engine. Ford screwed up on this one and did not take responsibility in fixing the problems. I agree with 300 H & H and think Ford was just pushing it to the limits and added junk accessories that destroy reliability.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
So the fuel is delivered to the injector timed, or full time?
It sounds as if the high pressure engine oil pump is timed to the engine, just like an mechanical injection pump would be?
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
there is an electronic solenoid that controls injector timing the oil creates the pressure. I do like my 12 valve bosch system. my new cat engine has an mechanical unit injector similar to the 855 cummins or 2 stroke Detroit . I'm quite content with my old tec engines but as a mechanic I have to love the modern electronic systems they just make easy work for me
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I still like the old Bosch mechanical system. Completely easy.
Common rail makes so much more sense then the Cat/Ford/IH system.

We lived with Bosch inline injector pumps on so many engines for lots of years. I miss the reliability to...

But at 5,000 psi they are a bit weak compared to 20,000+ psi. of the new engines. Better fuel milage and less emissions with the high pressure systems.

The H.U.I. systems let you do some interesting things, and the injection of fuel no longer has anything to do with camshaft timing.. You can even inject fuel twice per power stroke, some before TDC, and more after.. This quiets the engine at idle, and is used in Ford apps..

These systems I think are still referred to as a common rail, as the fuel going to the injectors runs in a rail along side of the cylinder head. They see 80psi all of the time. The computer is the sole controller of the injection event. With a laptop you can change the fuel curve to what ever you like, and at what ever power level you think the engine can stand. :whistling:

Regards, Kirk
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I put 108 miles on it yesterday .all temps and oil pressure showed ok. it just went down to low gear on the short hills and lacked pickup speed on them. 30 mph no engine light came on but could have thrown a code. was pulling 11000lbs.
previously it would have dropped down a gear and picked up if I wanted.
no antifreeze smell.it is a little low on the reservoir level.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the heui pump ramps up your engine oil pressure so with out a laptop plugged in you wont see your heui pressure
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
So curious - how does one determine if the high pressure pump is the culprit, the solenoid is the culprit, the fuel oil pump, timing, etc?

The computer can only diagnose signals and maybe even anticipate what should happen.

A leaking injector would effect built up pressure.

A solenoid with a deteriorating insulation may not have the magnetic effect needed to shift.

Etc?

Point me to a method-of-operation and a diagnostics page for these things. Now I am interested.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
there sensors located all through the engine and comparing command signals to sensor readings are usually how it is done. when a pump fails it will send metal all through the system and foul the injectors on high pressure side. weather you are doing the common rail system of heui system replacement of one injector is not an option, the whole set must be replaced or you will never rid your truck of problems also the oil galies must be brushed and flushed. I have done a few of these now and in trucks the job sucks likely sucks worse in a pickup.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2n9fOQS8Y"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 01 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG9bh6j2ZXs"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 02 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8KSxr4vS-0"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 03 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MP7OtRB5Co"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 04 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeON1_ODVSA"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 05 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBETs-nDejI"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 06 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKWEOMrnWM"]CAT HEUI FUEL SYSTEM 07 - YouTube[/ame]

Hope this helps understand the Caterpillar H.E.U.I. system, Fred.

Probably more than you wanted to know!...

Regards, Kirk
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks Kirk!
It's always good to know more today than yesterday, even if I'll never use the knowledge.
Now I know!
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I came across this, how to bullet proof the 6.0 Diesel. Other than the injectors, this should take care of the major issues.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqVqRIutGUw"]Ford 6.0 Liter Diesel, Repairs To Make it Last | Pawlik Automotive - YouTube[/ame]

There are also You Tubes that deal with such things as why you should NOT use anything but OEM filters in the oil and fuel system. My bet is the lack of general issues I have had are because I have only use OEM filters since new. After market filters DO NOT FIT because Navastar has patents on the filters they use. So after market filters are not the same size and are a compromise fit.. The Fuel filter has a water separation sleeve no after market one have.. Another thing that is so simple is to replace the original coolant reservoir cap with a new one. If you don't have 15PSI in the system because your cap has failed, water will be boiling in the cylinder heads before the cooling fan comes on, with it's thermostatically controlled clutch... Ouch...

Regards, Kirk
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have always bought my filters at the ford dealership.

it is scheduled at ford jan 3rd to get fixed.
thanks for the help.
jim
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
they tested the oil pump regulator it was good so they replaced the high pressure oil pump that couldn't reach high pressure anymore and a regulator that controls it that tested good .
i'll find out the next hill I climb with a load if it works.
jim
 
Top