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Do you know the power of RAW honey?

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Wrong answer buckwheat. Arrogance is your word in this case, not mine, but perhaps you are feeling guilty of arrogance, eh? .

No guilt here, I haven't resorted to name calling or derogatory comments to others in my replies.

That, my friend, is arrogance shrouded in ignorance. If you had taken a moment to actually read the post in context, perhaps you would not have made such a jack ass, uncalled for comment that had nothing to do with the subject at hand.
.

OK, the "chain email" comment may have been a teensy bit callous but you have certainly eclipsed that with you replies in this thread.

While mainstream doctors may not advocate unhealthy living, many poo poo holistic, nutritional and excercise approaches in favor of prescribing blood pressure and cholesterol drugs.

I strongly disagree that "many" doctors "poo poo" nutritional and exercise approaches since these have been PROVEN effective. They do "poo poo" holisitic approaches because they haven't been scientifically PROVEN effective.

What the Naturopathy/Holistic/Chiropractic industries have done is to take scientifically proven things and then twist them in a scientific sounding wrapper in order to attempt to validate and legitimize their otherwise incorrect assumptions. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it is good. It needs to be validated scientifically for it to be a fact.

The AMA and the pharmacuetical industry lobbies to have certain effective nutritional supplements declared drugs to prevent the purchase without a prescription. Failing that, they attempt to have the FDA regulate the supplement industry. Maybe they are afraid the supplements will cut into their prescription drug and surgery business. Don't believe it? Go here and find resolution 524 in this AMA document: www.ama-assn.org/meetings/public/annual05/refcomeannotateda05.doc


This is all that I could find in that document:

Resolution 524 asks that our American Medical Association lobby for a true accounting in advertising under the auspices of the Food and Drug Administration and work for a ban on advertisements for medications or nutritional supplements without convincing scientific evidence of their effectiveness.

Ummm . . . I don't see a problem with this. There is so much hucksterism in the nutritional supplements industry it is disgusting. It looks like the AMA just wants to protect people from scammers. You are the one that is assuming this is being done for nefarious purposes.

Doctors get no respect. The fact is that most people could be treated very effectively with diet and exercise. How many people actually will ever do what their Doctor tells them to? I would argue that it is a small amount. I will also argue that it is the patients that have unreal expectations when they go to the Doctor. They want a pill and don't want to be responsible for their own lifestyle choices and/or bad genetics. They just want to be "fixed". If the Doctor doesn't "fix" them then it becomes the Doctor's fault and the person goes away mad.

Doctor's deal in truth, unfortunately most people don't want to hear the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

No, actually, you stated your opinion, along with a little dig at the OP, and Redneck, based upon your limited experience. Opinions are not facts, nor do they in many cases even resemble common sense.

I have not made any "digs", I have taken a position that is contrary to everyone else and made arguments against it. I honestly was surprised that a nurse would advocate raw honey for infants (it is in the original article).

You are welcome to disagree with me but if anyone is acting arrogant or disrespectful then you may want to re-read your own posts.

PB
 

Cityboy

Banned
o guilt here, I haven't resorted to name calling or derogatory comments to others in my replies.

Yup. Called you Buckwheat. Attempting some humor. You missed it. Sorry.

OK, the "chain email" comment may have been a teensy bit callous but you have certainly eclipsed that with you replies in this thread.

I gave you a little dose of your own medicine. What? Didn't enjoy it?


I strongly disagree that "many" doctors "poo poo" nutritional and exercise approaches since these have been PROVEN effective. They do "poo poo" holisitic approaches because they haven't been scientifically PROVEN effective.

That's your opinion. You do seem to speak for what "doctors" think as if you know. What doctors? Some doctors? All doctors? A doctor you know? I based my opinion on my own experience and research and chose the word "many" based upon that research. I don't come close to knowing what all doctors believe, but there is an "old school" who subscribes to prescriptions and surgery over any other option.

What the Naturopathy/Holistic/Chiropractic industries have done is to take scientifically proven things and then twist them in a scientific sounding wrapper in order to attempt to validate and legitimize their otherwise incorrect assumptions. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it is good. It needs to be validated scientifically for it to be a fact.

This is a gross generalization. You are attempting to lump everyone who participates in a holistic approach to health into one category. This is just as silly as the political mudslinging both the left and right engage in. So, just because PB says it's bad doesn't mean it is. It might just work in some cases, or it might not work in other cases.

This is all that I could find in that document:

Ummm . . . I don't see a problem with this. There is so much hucksterism in the nutritional supplements industry it is disgusting. It looks like the AMA just wants to protect people from scammers. You are the one that is assuming this is being done for nefarious purposes.

I'm not assuming anything. If you read the language with an open mind, you can see the intent. The AMA wants to force the supplement industry under the jurisdiction of the FDA. The next step is restrictions on consumers ability to purchase supplements over the counter. This will achieve nothing other than driving the price of supplements up. All mainstream supplements currently carry labeling that informs consumers that their claims have not been verified by the FDA. Sure, snake oil gets advertised sometimes, but the market sorts them out and they also get sued in some extreme cases.

So...are you now in favor of more government control? That's not very conservative of you PB.

Doctors get no respect. The fact is that most people could be treated very effectively with diet and exercise. How many people actually will ever do what their Doctor tells them to? I would argue that it is a small amount. I will also argue that it is the patients that have unreal expectations when they go to the Doctor. They want a pill and don't want to be responsible for their own lifestyle choices and/or bad genetics. They just want to be "fixed". If the Doctor doesn't "fix" them then it becomes the Doctor's fault and the person goes away mad.

I don't disagree here for the most part, except that doctors do, of course get all the respect they earn from their patients. Simply holding the title of doctor does not and should not automatically guarantee respect.

But I do completely agree that the sheeple want to be fixed with no effort on their part. But I also believe the medical industry has contributed greatly to this mindset.

Doctor's deal in truth, unfortunately most people don't want to hear the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

You should qualify this statement by saying Most doctors deal in truth. There are many doctors who are not truthful or competent. We read about some of these doctors in the news quite frequently, but it's the ones that you don't hear about that should concern you even more. My family has been affected by incompetent doctors, and everyone at a minimum knows of a fatal, or nearly fatal screw up that has either happened to them personally, or to a family member or to someone they know. That's far too many mistakes being made far too frequently. It pays to be skeptical and to get second and third opinions. No one should automatically accept a doctors opinion just because that person has the title MD behing their name.



I have not made any "digs", I have taken a position that is contrary to everyone else and made arguments against it. I honestly was surprised that a nurse would advocate raw honey for infants (it is in the original article).

I did not see her advocate anything. She posted an article. You made assumptions.

You are welcome to disagree with me but if anyone is acting arrogant or disrespectful then you may want to re-read your own posts.

PB

Perhaps I do need to reread some of my posts, and I will. You might do the same. I'm giving you back what I percieve you to be dishing out.
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
PBinWA said:
Smells like a chain email in here.

Shouldn't a nurse in a NICU be at least concerned
?
This PB is not a reply from a person who "just concerned" the evidence may not be what they are cracked up to be. You could have said something like you have trouble believing all the uses and your reasons....so as to leave a rebuttal open. As in debate....your thoughts verses her thoughts. It would have been interesting as the reader (me) to hear two different sides from two different professions.
But you ruined that with an "attack" on CG's professional ethics. When you say something like."Shouldn't a nurse in a NICU be at least concerned"?
Shame on you for being "catty"

PBinWA said:
That just reeks of quackery to me. I don't believe much in Naturopathy, Herbalism, Chiropractics or any of that hippy "feel good" B.S. The rest of the article makes honey seem like it is going to cure cancer and stop world hunger.
Again.....Shame on you for being "catty"
All you had to say was,"I don't believe much in Naturopathy, Herbalism, Chiropractics or any of that hippy "feel good" B.S. The rest of the article makes honey seem like it is going to cure cancer and stop world hunger. This would have been a decent rebuttle. You didn't have to be "catty" in the beginning.


PBinWA said:
As I stated before, you are welcome to believe what you want to believe. However, I will never give these "alternative" medical approaches an ounce of credit unless they come up with some serious scientifically validated evidence.
You didn't call anyone a quack, or question their professional ethics because of where they work. This is ALL you had to say in order to get a debate going.

PBinWA said:
My Mom had a Chiropractor tell her that one of her vertebrae was completely turned around. I couldn't for the life of me get her to believe me that if that was really the case then she would be a parapalegic.

PBinWA said:
The doctors didn't kill anybody. Your father obviously was sick to begin with. The doctors do the best they can to save people but not everyone can be saved. Trying to blame a doctor for complications due to a quadruple bypass is just wrong. Doctors are people too and can not catch every little thing.
Some times people die. You can't blame Doctors for that.
I think you have a lot of misdirected anger towards the medical profession.
This is just plain heartless...."Everybody is going to die"?....we just wish his time wasn't as soon as it was because he was in the hospital over the weekend and that's when the neglect happens most often. I would never say something like this to someone that is grieving.
And you can have your say that you think a chiropractor is not any good because of how your Momma was treated...But Redneck and I aren't allowed to say
A scientifically documented licensed MD neglected our Dad's because he was going to die anyway? So there aren't quacks in the medical proffession? SHAME ON YOU!
PBinWA said:
I think you are the one that is coming up with the arrogant opinions (perhaps I pissed off your wife or something).
You were the arrogant one from the "get-go" with this statement..."Smells like a chain email in here."
"Shouldn't a nurse in a NICU be at least concerned
"
This was "catty"
CG has been nothing but professional in her replies despite your arrogance.

PBinWA said:
If you read back over my replies, I have stated my points and never asserted that you shouldn't do what you want to do and have never presented myself as a nutritional expert. The only reason I mentioned my university degree was to emphasize that I had as much or more anatomy and physiology training as a Chiropractor. In fact, I just checked the curriculum for a Chiropractic school and it looks like it is only a 3 year program. I had to got to school for 4.5 years to get my Bachelors degree. All I have done is attempted to point out some facts and tried to advocate common sense.
By the time you mentioned your education we were already on the defense because of how un professional you had already been.

PBinWA said:
No guilt here, I haven't resorted to name calling or derogatory comments to others in my replies.
OK, the "chain email" comment may have been a teensy bit callous but you have certainly eclipsed that with you replies in this thread.
So was the comment that Rednecks Daddy was going to die anyway, rather than admit there may be A scientifically documented licensed MD that was neglectful.

PBinWA said:
I strongly disagree that "many" doctors "poo poo" nutritional and exercise approaches since these have been PROVEN effective. They do "poo poo" holisitic approaches because they haven't been scientifically PROVEN effective.
You pay certain doctors to say what you want to hear and "vise versa"

PBinWA said:
I have not made any "digs", I have taken a position that is contrary to everyone else and made arguments against it. I honestly was surprised that a nurse would advocate raw honey for infants (it is in the original article).
PB
PBinWA said:
Smells like a chain email in here.

Shouldn't a nurse in a NICU be at least concerned
 

OhioTC18

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I thought this was the Health and Fitness Forum.
It's getting to be more like the Debate and Disagreement Forum err........Debate and Discussion Forum
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
Ya know, most of us went off topic in this thread from the get-go.
Seems like that happens a lot in threads where opinions are strong.
It was bound to happen.
Now then... how about that honey, Honey? lol ;)
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
Ya know, most of us went off topic in this thread from the get-go.
Seems like that happens a lot in threads where opinions are strong.
It was bound to happen.
Now then... how about that honey, Honey? lol ;)
So do you know the differnce between honey and bee pollen?
 

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
GOLD Site Supporter
Bee bread or bee pollen is the main source of food for most honey bees and their larvae. Bee bread consists of honey and pollens which are gathered by the worker bees. A recent study of bee bread showed it contain 188 kinds of fungi and 29 kinds of bacteria. Bee bread is sometimes referred to as ambrosia.

Bee pollen contains:

All the essential amino acids
A full spectrum of vitamins especially vitamins B12 and E; and significant amounts of B1, B2, B3, B5, C, and vitamin D
Various minerals including calcium, manganese, phosphorous, iron, sodium, potassium, aluminium, magnesium and copper
Trace elements and enzymes (including antioxidants), and co-enzymes, pigments, xanthophylls, carotenes, and sterols, phytosterols, lignans (dibenzyl butanes) isoflavones and flavonoids
Hormone precursors (which stimulate hormone production and help anti-ageing)
Carbohydrates and fatty acids
Bee bread is used in naturopathic medicine traditions and as a nutritional supplement, although exposure may trigger allergic or anaphylactic reactions in sensitive people.





Honey is a sweet and viscous fluid produced by honey bees (and some other species), and derived from the nectar of flowers. According to the United States National Honey Board and various international food regulations, "honey stipulates a pure product that does not allow for the addition of any other substance…this includes, but is not limited to, water or other sweeteners". This article refers exclusively to the honey produced by honey bees (the genus Apis); honey produced by other bees or other insects has very different properties.

Honey gets its sweetness from the monosaccharides fructose and glucose and has approximately the same relative sweetness as granulated sugar (97% of the sweetness of sucrose, a disaccharide). Honey has attractive chemical properties for baking, and a distinctive flavor which leads some people to prefer it over sugar and other sweeteners.

Most micro-organisms do not grow in honey because of its low water activity of 0.6. However, it is important to note that honey frequently contains dormant endospores of the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, which can be dangerous to infants as the endospores can transform into toxin-producing bacteria in the infant's immature intestinal tract, leading to illness and even death (see Precautions below).

The study of pollens and spores in raw honey (melissopalynology) can determine floral sources of honey. Because bees carry an electrostatic charge, and can attract other particles, the same techniques of melissopalynology can be used in area environmental studies of radioactive particles, dust, or particulate pollution.

A main effect of bees collecting nectar to make honey is pollination, which is crucial for flowering plants.

The beekeeper encourages overproduction of honey within the hive so that the excess can be taken without endangering the bees. When sources of foods for the bees are short the beekeeper may have to give the bees supplementary nutrition.



I am not an apiarist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
I am not an apiarist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
There was a big deal about Bee pollen pills that were supposed to help you lose weight and improve your over all health. They were expensive, and I thought it to be ANOTHER weight loss scheme. So I was wondering why the pollen would be different from the honey losing weight. :whistling:
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
bee pollen is primarily pollen from local plants "harvested" from a beehive and often packaged in gel capsules for ease of consumption as an alternative to allergy shots, among other uses.
raw honey also has some of this pollen in it, which is part of where the health benefits come from, so long as the raw honey is from a local source.

I've used honey for sore throats in the past as well, but was not aware of the use to help in healing from MRSA and surface burns. (makes good wine, too)

off topic for a moment - chiropractic manipulation is an offshoot of osteopathic medicine and a D.O. is a real doctor, having gone through medical school and often the same hospital rotations and residency as an M.D. just like "real" doctors, some chiropractors do more harm than good, some do exactly what's needed at the time to achieve temporary relief and allow the body to do its own healing.
 

Erik

SelfBane
Site Supporter
bee careful or you'll both hive to be separated until you can again wax eloquently on topic.
 

American Woman

New member
Site Supporter
bee pollen is primarily pollen from local plants "harvested" from a beehive and often packaged in gel capsules for ease of consumption as an alternative to allergy shots, among other uses.
raw honey also has some of this pollen in it, which is part of where the health benefits come from, so long as the raw honey is from a local source.

I've used honey for sore throats in the past as well, but was not aware of the use to help in healing from MRSA and surface burns. (makes good wine, too)

off topic for a moment - chiropractic manipulation is an offshoot of osteopathic medicine and a D.O. is a real doctor, having gone through medical school and often the same hospital rotations and residency as an M.D. just like "real" doctors, some chiropractors do more harm than good, some do exactly what's needed at the time to achieve temporary relief and allow the body to do its own healing.
:flowers: You never cease to impress me......But while we are off topic....Where are those pictures you promised me
icon10.gif
 

daedong

New member
Back to topic the honey I beelieve is most valuable is Manuka honey

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Manuka+honey

manuka honey (m
500161-fx1.gif
·nōōˑ·k
500161-fx1.gif
huˑ·nē),n honey gathered from flowers of the manuka bush,
Leptospermum scoparium, a wild plant found in New Zealand. The active honey, in the nonpasteurized form, contains a potent antibacterial compound called unique manuka factor (UMF). Manuka honey is used to treat sore throats, skin ulcers, heartburn, peptic ulcers, to fight
Helicobacter pylori bacteria, and as a wound dressing. Also called
active manuka honey.
 
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