afternoon everyone. a little bit about myself, purchased a 1980 1544 tucker last fall. it has a mopar 318 industrial hooked to a 5-speed transmission. after doing some research and calling Tucker. I found out that this machine could have been spec'd with an automatic. in fact from an old build sheet from Tucker they hooked it to an Allison 540. my question is does anyone know what is needed to do this conversion???? the reason this is so important to me is I have to drive with hand controls - my feet/hands don't work very well caused from a medical condition. by doing the conversion would allow me to drive my own machine and not have to take someone who have the use of their feet. if someone has done a complete restoration and cataloged everything, I could then start my search in finding everything to have someone do the conversion. starting out I need an Allison 540, maybe an adapter to hook Allison to engine, flexplate to bolt Allison T/C. from the build sheet I have cooler number, morse control number as well as length of shifting cable. again, thanks for letting me join and hopefully someone can assist
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conversion from manual trans to automatic
- Thread starter 1980-1544
- Start date
Just a thought. Does anyone think its feasible to add a hydraulic clutch actuator as hand lever operated? The cylinder could be mounted to the floor near the gear shift with a long lever like a skid steer generally you don't shift on the fly mine looses momentum too fast before I can get in a higher gear anyway so I just take off in the higher gear.
Blackfoot will be around and can fill you in completely. I can tell you the problem is the bell housing. He has gone into that in depth in previous posts. Finding a 318 to AT 545 bell housing is tough!
I will be removing an AT 540 from a tucker later this spring into early summer.
from what I see the SAE (x) adapter is the unique part. the transmission i an SAE (x) mounting. the piece between it and the motor makes it all happen. I am not sure which number it is 2,3,4
I am starting to wonder if the Allison is a mandatory need. there is a rebuild documented in another thread that has a 727 transmission in it.
maybe in your case you could select a easier to find platform.
Would you be needing to pull anything or are you using it for transportation purposes.
from what I see the SAE (x) adapter is the unique part. the transmission i an SAE (x) mounting. the piece between it and the motor makes it all happen. I am not sure which number it is 2,3,4
I am starting to wonder if the Allison is a mandatory need. there is a rebuild documented in another thread that has a 727 transmission in it.
maybe in your case you could select a easier to find platform.
Would you be needing to pull anything or are you using it for transportation purposes.
First, let me say that I admire your determination to do what you want - even if hand controls are required. My brother-in-law is a paraplegic, and I respect the hell out of him. He accepts no limitations and he never complains. He just perseveres until he succeeds. Yes, he's pretty cantankerous, but he sets an example few of us live up to, at least in my opinion. Forrest Gump famously said "Life is like a box of chocolates...". I think life is like a card game, and as you go through life you're dealt different hands. Some are good, and some aren't. You have to play the cards you're dealt. Some people fold early (give up), while others do the best they can with the hand they have. Those are the people I admire.
Tucker offered two different automatic transmission options; the Chrysler Loadflite (a version of the 727 Torqueflite) and the Allison AT545. The Loadflite was available in either a long or short tailshaft configuration and Tucker used the short version. The short versions are VERY difficult to find. The Loadflite is a three speed, non-overdrive transmission.
The Allison AT545 (or 540 or 542) is a four speed, non-overdrive transmission most commonly found in medium duty trucks. They are plentiful and can be found at reasonable prices, too. BUT (there's always a but...), there are some nuances to be aware of.
The biggest hurdle, and already mentioned, is finding an adapter housing to mate the AT545 to the 318. The Chrysler 273, 318, 340 and 360 engines are all in the LA engine family and I'm almost positive the AT545 (and its siblings) were never offered by Chrysler with that transmission as an option. So finding that adapter housing is extremely difficult.
The transmissions were available with different valve bodies; either a double-neutral or a single-neutral. Some explanation is in order:
Whereas automatic transmissions in cars, SUVs, and pickup trucks have a "park" position in the shifter that engages a parking pawl in the transmission, the AT545 does not. The double-neutral has a shift pattern of N, R, N, D, 3-2, and 1. The first N is designed to be utilized with a parking brake mechanism that engages in the N position. But as the shifter has a limited number of positions, you give up the ability to limit the transmission to second gear. The single neutral pattern is R, N, D, 3, 2, and 1. You need to manually set the parking brake in the N position. But you have more control over what gear the transmission stays in. I have a 1986 1544 with a 360 and an AT545, and Tucker used the single-neutral valve body. In our Thundercat project we chose an AT545, and also chose a single-neutral valve body for it. I think it works well. The transmission shifter you purchase should match the configuration of the valve body. Tucker may have used Morse shifters in 1980. But there are other brands. Both my 1544 and Thundercat use Felsted brand shifters. They're made by a company called Orscheln. Be aware Orscheln offers a lot of options and you want to get a shifter that's configured correctly for your application. (Felsted/Orscheln shifters can often be found on eBay without too much trouble.) It's likely you'll have to get a cable between the shifter and the transmission made up to the length you specify, but it's a relatively minor issue.
Allison offered a deep transmission pan and a shallow pan. The deep ones are more plentiful, by far, in my experience. If you don't have a front blade you may be able to use a deep pan, I'm honestly not sure (Tucker used the shallow pan on the 1544 I have, and it doesn't have a blade). The deep pan resembles a roasting pan and it's five inches deep. The shallow pan looks like a paint roller tray, and the deep end is four inches deep. The shallow pan uses a different filter and a different pipe between the transmission and the filter. All of this stuff is available new from Allison, but be prepared to be shocked when they tell you what the parts cost. When it come to outrageous pricing, pharmaceutical companies get all the bad press, but Allison is every bit as egregious!
AT545s were quite often equipped with a parking brake drum just in front of the output yoke, and this too is something you want. The mechanism is actuated by the same parking brake lever in the cab as your five-speed uses.
With your existing engine and transmission, the bell housing has some ears cast into it that are used as mounts. There's a single bolt in the front of the engine and the two ears on the bell housing. The transmission basically hangs off the bell housing with no additional support.
The AT545 has locations on both sides for brackets to bolt on. With our Thundercat project we cut off the mounts Tucker welded to the frame for the original five-speed mounting setup, and relocated them to use with the brackets for the Allison. Tucker used a different setup when they installed the Allison in my 1986 1544. Pictures are useful:
Here's my snowcat buddy Scott cutting off the stock Tucker frame mounts used for the bell housing ears.
Here's a photo of the engine and transmission. You can see the bolt-on brackets just behind the wide lifting strap. Note also the parking brake drum and mechanism.
And here's a pic of the installed transmission mount.
There are some relatively minor tasks involved like re-configuring the brake and clutch pedal assembly without the clutch pedal, and locating the new shifter assembly. There are some wiring issues you'll have to address with the neutral safety switch for starting, and the reverse gear switch for backup lights / backup alarm. You'll also need to have your existing driveshaft shortened, or a new one made, and you'll have to address the transmission's modulator.
This is not an easy and fast conversion. It's a lot of work, and if you have it done by others, you'll want someone with the knowledge, skill and time to do it, and do it right. My snowcat buddy and I agree that an automatic transmission in a snowcat is a very desirable feature, and we think it adds several thousand dollars to the resale value of a machine. But to do the conversion, or have the conversion done by someone else, I'm not sure you'll get all your money back out when you sell the machine. On the other hand, it's not like there are a ton of nice, used Tuckers with automatic transmissions to choose from.
My sincerest best wishes for your project. I'll do my best to answer any questions you have.
Nice hints from BFT. Can't do any better than learn from someone who's done it. If you decide to go the manual transmission, I would place the hand operated master cyl. for the clutch on the opposite side from the hand brake. Don't know if your machine has the disc brake on the transfer case or not. If it does you may want to put the brake and clutch on opposite sides so you can operate both at the same time for start/stop on hills. This would be much easier and less bucks than the auto conversion. Keep in mind I am old school and like manual transmissions.
Thanks to everyone's interest. When I purchased the tucker I also saw they did use a 727 and I did find a short shaft 727 with a flange out of a 77-78 dodge motor one bolted to a 360. After more research I also came across that most automatics were the 540 as what the build sheet said. When my brother took me out on our maiden voyage it was on a groomed trail and did approximately 13mph at 3000 rpm in 5th. I took all the gear ratios from the 5apeed transmissions and compared them with the two automatics and driving in 4th, 5th gear would approximately the same as 2. 3 in the 727 and 3,4 in the 540. 1st gear in the 727 is roughly 2+. 2nd gear in the 540 is about the same as the 727 where 1st in the 540 matches that of the manual at roughly 5:1 ratio. Reverse on the other hand is 5,6:1 on the manual to the 540 and 2.4 on the 727. Since I only went on a groomed trail and a few off trail excursions on our trip which I believe he only went to 3rd gear.. My concern is reverse. Both the manual and 540 are deep geared in the 5+ range where the 727 is roughly the same as 1st at 2.4 to 1. This is where I need the knowledge since I have not figured transfer case ratios nor drive ratios I do not know if the 727 picked up would be a good choice.
If it helps, I removed the five speed manual transmission because the reverse is so terribly slow. If you are blading a side hill trail, a deck of cards are required due to how slow it backs up. Perhaps others who have seat time with Tuckers can respond. I would think that the two to one reverse would be just fine. The torque converter should provide all the reduction you should need. 99% of the back up time would be in the tracks you have already made.
Given:
not knowing where you are.
Not knowing elevation
not knowing if you intend to pull anything
I have a thought to share with you. I am kicking taking out my (360 gas allison 540 combo) 77' 1642 tucker. it is coming out for a couple of reasons. ( one of which is inconsistent shifting is sub zero weather, it behaves fine to -5F)
One of the multiple ideas I have been mind (intercoursing) is to install a 4B diesel and 545 allison transmission. the motor is available. the transmission and adapter is in many school bus platforms here in the midwest. (cheap)
option 2
Durangos are in piles in the junkyards around here. the 5.9 hemis and 5spd transmissions are cheap and, I THINK, they would be fine in a tucker that is not pulling anything. I can get a entire vehicle from the junk yard, remove the harness and controllers and then source a 4x4 transmission and remove the transfer case. (this combo is at the point of creating a seal surface and a yoke to complete)
so again, I apologize if motor swaps are not your focus. I have been told that the adapter for the allison is living in many late 70's and early 80's winnebago motor homes. it seems I only find the 440's to SAE adapters.
My last swap option is the CRD jeep 2.8L diesel engine. that motor is in chevrolet colorados and of course the jeep liberty. that motor hides in many names. motori, fiat, mercede, and duramax (isuzu) but looking at them in the shop the motor is very very similar. it is very compact, 160- 215 HP fair amount of torque (300 ish ft pounds) they have a bad rap in the internet, it is either a love or hate situation.
Humor attempt here:
in regards to the low reverse speed of the 5 spd, Yes that is a thing, I (not knowing what to do with a deck of cards...) send text messages and drink water and adjust heater, and nap.....then wake up and stage my next snack..... while backing up......
it is not that bad, but it is slow
not knowing where you are.
Not knowing elevation
not knowing if you intend to pull anything
I have a thought to share with you. I am kicking taking out my (360 gas allison 540 combo) 77' 1642 tucker. it is coming out for a couple of reasons. ( one of which is inconsistent shifting is sub zero weather, it behaves fine to -5F)
One of the multiple ideas I have been mind (intercoursing) is to install a 4B diesel and 545 allison transmission. the motor is available. the transmission and adapter is in many school bus platforms here in the midwest. (cheap)
option 2
Durangos are in piles in the junkyards around here. the 5.9 hemis and 5spd transmissions are cheap and, I THINK, they would be fine in a tucker that is not pulling anything. I can get a entire vehicle from the junk yard, remove the harness and controllers and then source a 4x4 transmission and remove the transfer case. (this combo is at the point of creating a seal surface and a yoke to complete)
so again, I apologize if motor swaps are not your focus. I have been told that the adapter for the allison is living in many late 70's and early 80's winnebago motor homes. it seems I only find the 440's to SAE adapters.
My last swap option is the CRD jeep 2.8L diesel engine. that motor is in chevrolet colorados and of course the jeep liberty. that motor hides in many names. motori, fiat, mercede, and duramax (isuzu) but looking at them in the shop the motor is very very similar. it is very compact, 160- 215 HP fair amount of torque (300 ish ft pounds) they have a bad rap in the internet, it is either a love or hate situation.
Humor attempt here:
in regards to the low reverse speed of the 5 spd, Yes that is a thing, I (not knowing what to do with a deck of cards...) send text messages and drink water and adjust heater, and nap.....then wake up and stage my next snack..... while backing up......
it is not that bad, but it is slow
olympicorange
Active member
good afternoon, I can't thank everyone enough for assisting me in my conversion. the Tucker is only to be used for recreation. the highest elevation is about 9500'. for me/wife it will be mostly groomed trails, for my brother however - who knows. I don't have any reason to put a plow or pull a trailer, I just purchased it to take advantage of the snow and ride with a heater. it should open up our winters like it used to be when we snowmobiled every where. the pics and microfiche are awesome. are there any distinct numbers from the box or part itself I can use to try and locate. thanks to all for sharing the information and expertise
olympicorange
Active member
hello... im in the process of doing a 4bt/Allison upgrade...I don't have the part numbers at my fingertips as of yet...but if you end up doing a similar combination upgrade ...I can assist in the o.e.m.& cast numbers, etc... 
When Chrysler re-introduced the Hemi, it was in 5.7 Liter form. The 5.9 engine was the Magnum, and the 5.7 Hemi replaced it. The 5.9 Magnum was basically the last version of the LA engine family and unsurprisingly it has a lot in common with the 360, the 318's big brother. There was also a 5.2 Magnum, based on the 318.
When Scott and I were kicking around the idea of an engine swap for Thundercat, I did a ton of research on the 5.9 Magnum as it would be a much easier installation. But, there are differences that one should be aware of. The 5.9 Magnum, like many engines of it's day, is a computerized, fuel injected engine. It produces significantly more power than the 360, but one weak point are the cylinder heads which have a propensity to develop cracks. Like the 360, the 5.9 Magnum is an externally balanced engine, so it requires different flywheels/flex plates than the 318, as well as different harmonic balancers.
Tucker used the 318 Industrial engine which differs from the automotive version. One difference is the water pump inlet is on the left side. Automotive versions (since 1971 I believe) have the water pump inlet on the right side. The 360 and 5.9 Magnum have the water pump inlet on the right side. Tucker installs the Vickers V20P hydraulic pump on the right side of the 318 engine and the left side of the 360. The mounting brackets would be different. Could you use a 318 Industrial style water pump on a 5.9 Magnum? I don't know.
Another issue is the belt system. Tucker used V-belts, which were the norm in that era, but the 5.9 Magnum uses a serpentine belt system. This is an issue because the hydraulic pump must be driven, and there's a geometric relationship in the pulley system. The auxiliary pulley on the harmonic balancer Tucker used to drive the hydraulic pump is 6" in diameter (IIRC) and the driven pulley on the pump is 8" (both are dual groove pulleys). Those pumps have a recommended maximum RPM of 2,500 (IIRC), and one would want to keep the drive-to-driven pulley relationship. I don't know what the diameter of the Magnum's harmonic balancer is, or if it has provisions to add an auxiliary pulley. Could you swap all the bracket's, spacers, pulleys and hardware onto a 5.9 Magnum? I don't know.
When one swaps in a computerized engine there are several additional issues. One is they typically require a high pressure fuel pump, and some engines have both a fuel supply line and a return-to-tank fuel line. Another issue is the wiring harness. The standard automotive harnesses have a whole lot of wires that don't get used after the swap. There are companies that specialize in offering complete new harnesses without the extraneous wires, and some other firms that will re-configure your existing harness. The computer itself will need to be reprogrammed to eliminate things like the second set of oxygen sensors, anti theft stuff, etc.
My impression is the 5.9 Magnum swap is not commonly done any more as the 5.7 Hemi has taken over that market segment, so finding a harness and a someone to re-flash the computer might be a bit challenging.
I really can't speak to Chrysler automatic transmissions and how they are mounted, shifted, or would fit in the available space.
The Allison AT545 transmission has a data plate installed on the right side of the transmission at the back. It has a bunch of numbers stamped on it in columns, as well as the serial number.
The transmissions were available with various options and the numbers specify which components were used in that individual transmission - when it was assembled by Allison. For example, the type of valve body, the torque converter, whether it has a PTO drive gear installed, etc. An Allison dealer can tell you what the various numbers mean, and with the serial number I believe they can tell you what type of vehicle the transmission was originally installed in.
1980-1544, if you haven't already done so, I highly recommend you call the Tucker factory, give them your machine's serial number, and ask them to fax/email you the original order sheet. There's a lot of valuable information there that can be handy when you're looking for replacement parts. I find Tucker folks to be very knowledgeable, and helpful when I've called needing information.