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"Unarmed" - WTF Does That Mean??

Danang Sailor

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
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My CQC instructor always made sure one of the first things he taught was the concept of Disparity of Force, a simple to
understand legal principle that says a big, strong person tends to be more dangerous than a smaller, less strong person. An
example would be a 115 pound, 5'6" female being attacked by a 285 pound, 6'4" male, an obvious disparity of available force.
In these cases it is entirely reasonable for the smaller person to use a force multiplier, such as a firearm, in order to level the
field.

This brings me to the problem of "Gentle Giant" Mike Brown and Officer Wilson in Ferguson. Our media cannot mention
this situation without describing Brown as "unarmed", without noting the relative sizes of the two, and thus the disparity of
force involved. (We'll overlook all the "shoot to wound" and "taser" speculation; we all recognize this for the BS it is.)
I've spoken of this in other places but not I find on FF, until now. And now, there is a perfect example of what an "unarmed"
person can do against an armed police officer. It's good to find an example, but I'm sorry at the same time.

http://notonemoregunlaw.blogspot.com/2014/08/michael-brown-and-deputy-brandon-love.html

So much for the media BS about "unarmed"; perhaps they should focus on the "giant" part of the description instead!

 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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I've come back to your post 3 times.

Not sure how to reply.

I don't really put much consideration in the disparity of force theory as many states don't take it into consideration at all. The media does. Ignorant people (like the media ... but I repeat myself) seem to think that the only force that exists is the gun and they ignore all other weapons, makeshift weapons, found objects, and physical force.

People with enough training and enough experience and excellent physical conditioning are never unarmed even if they are stripped naked and standing on the 50 yard line of a football field.
 
Danang Sailor

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
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Melensdad said:
I've come back to your post 3 times.

Not sure how to reply.

I don't really put much consideration in the disparity of force theory as many states don't take it into consideration at all. The media does. Ignorant people (like the media ... but I repeat myself) seem to think that the only force that exists is the gun and they ignore all other weapons, makeshift weapons, found objects, and physical force.

People with enough training and enough experience and excellent physical conditioning are never unarmed even if they are stripped naked and standing on the 50 yard line of a football field.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your dilemma; it didn't mean as much to me forty years ago as it does now for the simple reason that it applies
to me a lot more now. If sufficient time is spent on the range my shooting is still fine; not necessarily "Expert" rating any
longer, but still well within MOB - Minute of Badguy! But if it comes to straight hand-to-hand, I just don't have it anymore.
Onset of Oldtimer's Syndrome is a bitch!

Disparity of force isn't a "theory" by the way; it's as real sunshine.

 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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Staff member
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Danang Sailor said:


Disparity of force isn't a "theory" by the way; it's as real sunshine.

Click to expand...

I was thinking more in line with the "legal theory" of the disparity of force. In some states its a factor, in some states its not considered at all. Also in some states its suggested that they require a response that is measured to the threat and in others the law is far more cut and dried, clearly defined as to what constitutes a valid shooting response.

If I understand the Missouri law as it pertains to the police officer who shot Michael Brown, there is no question that the shoot was legal/legit.
 
Leni

Leni

Active member
I think that a professional boxer has to register his hands as a deadly weapon. You can certainly kill someone with your bare hands.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

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Staff member
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Catavenger said:
How big was that guy?
Click to expand...

The 18 year old unarmed youth in Feguson? He was 6'4" and 292 pounds. Not sure about the size/weight of the police officer as I have not seen that reported.
 
Leni

Leni

Active member
My son commented that probably no one put him in his place because he was so big. As a result he was able to do whatever he wanted to. Marshall has known a few big mean guys that size.
 
Dargo

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
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Leni said:
I think that a professional boxer has to register his hands as a deadly weapon. You can certainly kill someone with your bare hands.
Click to expand...

That only really applies to someone who, in the judgment of the court, has had enough training and the physical ability to kill another person; and has assets that the family of someone killed may deem substantial enough to try a civil case against in order to obtain monetary 'reimbursement' for their loss.
 
Catavenger

Catavenger

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Leni said:
I think that a professional boxer has to register his hands as a deadly weapon. You can certainly kill someone with your bare hands.
Click to expand...

I looked it up and none of the links I can find say that "hands" have to be registered. That being said I'm sure that common sense would tell one that size, strength etc. would play a factor if some small person shot (or used another weapon) on an "unarmed" Frankenstein monster.


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-399548.html

http://www.answers.com/Q/Do_boxers_have_to_register_their_hands_as_lethal_weapons
 
Leni

Leni

Active member
Damn. I read that someplace. Not going to go hunting it down right now though. It's enough that hands can do serious damage.
 
Danang Sailor

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
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Leni said:
Damn. I read that someplace. Not going to go hunting it down right now though. It's enough that hands can do serious damage.
Click to expand...

I've read that in fiction, but have never been able to find any reference to it in any state or federal law. However, there
have been cases where the martial arts training and experience of a person did figure into the charges that were filed against
that person.

 
M

mla2ofus

Well-known member
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I'm waiting for FACTS to come out about officer Wilson's alleged, not a fact yet, fractured eye socket and what caused it. There is another ALLEGATION about the officer's car door getting slammed. If true maybe the door caused the fracture.
Mike
 
muleman

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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I am 60 years old and in failing health. The only thing that levels the playing field for me is a weapon. I am a firm believer in survival first and the legalities will work out later. If a punk the size of Brown attacked me I would do the same thing. Here is a photo from Brown's facebook page before it was pulled. The one in the background is the "witness" who swears Brown raised his hands etc. These guys were thugs who used intimidation of size to force their way in situations.
 

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Kane

Kane

New member
Gonna' be a hot night in the city when the grand jury declines to indict.

Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, Eric Holder, Barack Hussein Obama and every other black man near a camera will all cry injustice.

The truth comes out; the system works, but Ferguson will burn.
 
fleamailman

fleamailman

New member
("...missing the point Kane, where the real question behind what they want you to focus upon is whether they are trying to circumvent the posse comitatus act by militarizing the police force into a standing army, where you might agree with me that that line is increasingly blurring then..." replied the goblin, thanking Kane for being so engaging, then adding "...no, it's your country so out of respect I'll let you spell it out to me then, I mean if one wanted to turn america into a police state, what do you feel would be the impediments still, and what would you interpret as steps toward it's accomplishment, plus how do things differ from the pre 9/11 age...")
 
Kane

Kane

New member
fleamailman said:
("...missing the point Kane, where the real question behind what they want you to focus upon is whether they are trying to circumvent the posse comitatus act by militarizing the police force into a standing army, where you might agree with me that that line is increasingly blurring then..." replied the goblin, thanking Kane for being so engaging, then adding "...no, it's your country so out of respect I'll let you spell it out to me then, I mean if one wanted to turn america into a police state, what do you feel would be the impediments still, and what would you interpret as steps toward it's accomplishment, plus how do things differ from the pre 9/11 age...")
Click to expand...

Yes, dear goblin, I've been accused of being a bit slow, but how does an article about Kate Mickler getting caught shoplifting relate to our American police state?

Better yet, WTF does it have to do with the OP?
 
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Dargo

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Leni said:
Damn. I read that someplace. Not going to go hunting it down right now though. It's enough that hands can do serious damage.
Click to expand...

Jean Claud VanDam is one who purchased a policy to protect himself from civil law suits because, according to him (and I have me reason to doubt him), when he came to the US many guys wanted to pick fights with him at night clubs and bars to be able to say they beat him up. Back then stories circulated that he had his hands and feet registered as weapons, but in reality it was an insurance policy that allowed him to protect himself and not have to worry about frivolous law suits from unsuccessful challengers.
 
fleamailman

fleamailman

New member
Kane said:
Yes, dear goblin, I've been accused of being a bit slow, but how does an article about Kate Mickler getting caught shoplifting relate to our American police state? Better yet, WTF does it have to do with the OP?
Click to expand...

("...just one law for the poor, another for the rich I guess..." replied the goblin wondering how to go about the next bit, adding "...just that the mindset of those in charge of you has changed in my view, where the media just wants you and me to look at this as some isolated incident, and to once more go down that black guy/white cop distraction till the cows push up daises, but no, what interests me more is the way the police force is changing, how crowd control is changing, how mass arrests are managed, how drills to that effect are becoming more commonplace today, the use of arms then, and which arm too, the new laws, and so on, and no, nowhere did I imply you were slow Kane, merely you asked me for my opinion as an outsider where my opinion is that the police are changing into something more sinister still if you care to look at it, where after all, we'll never know the truth about that shooting anyway, all conjectures are just that, ah but instead, we will know if the procedure and equipment of the law enforcers are changing for the worse by what the media unintentionally shows us in the background of it, so watch not where magician points, keep that vision as wide as possible...")
 
luvs

luvs

'lil yinzer~
GOLD Site Supporter
my Dad says, 'in a battle of wits, you're an an unarmed soldier.' so I put my bitch-mode on & shatter his wits.

i also keep an item of defense by my side. nothing too, tooooooooo harmful. enough to subdue a person until 5-0 could take over a situation. that is not my job. & 5-0 patrols often.
 
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