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Georgia Senior Citizens Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/23495797/detail.html



Posted: 1:55 pm EDT May 8, 2010

PORT WENTWORTH, Ga. -- Preston Blackwelder proudly showed off a painting of his grandmother that had hung next to the front door of his Port Wentworth home.

She was the woman who led him to God, Blackwelder said Friday.

And with that firm religious footing, Blackwelder said it would be preposterous to stop praying before meals at Port Wentworth's Ed Young Senior Citizens Center near Savannah because of a federal guideline.

"She would say pray anyway," Blackwelder said of his grandmother. "She'd say don't listen."

But Senior Citizens Inc. officials said Friday the meals they are contracted by the city to provide to Ed Young visitors are mostly covered with federal money, which ushers in the burden of separating church and state.

On Thursday, the usual open prayer before meals at the center was traded in for a moment of silence.

The dilemma is being hashed out by the Port Wentworth city attorney, said Mayor Glenn "Pig" Jones.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said.

"We can't scoff at their rules," he said of federal authorities. "It's a part of the operational guidelines."

Rutherford said the moment of silence was introduced to protect that funding. He said although the change may have been misinterpreted, perhaps his company could have done a better job selling it.

"It's interpreted that we're telling people that they can't pray, but we aren't saying that," he said. "We're asking them to pray to themselves. Have that moment of silence."

Mayor Jones said he was outraged by the change and has promised to find a solution.

"It was one of the hardest things I ever did as mayor is to look those people in the eyes and ask them to be patient with me and honor their God in a moment of silence until I can have a resolution to this," Jones said. "For me to look at their eyes and tell them they can't thank God for their food, it's unheard of - I can't take it."

Jones said he flirted with the idea of ending a contract the city has with Senior Citizens Inc.

"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."

Blackwelder said the center's already fragile visitors have been rattled.

"This is, in my view, an unnecessary intrusion into the private lives of individuals. It's a bad place to draw a line in the sand."
 

ncroamer65

New member
Before I'm called anti-God could I express an idea. The prayer is to thank
God for the bounty of the meal. Now if we consider the Jewish response
to meals, they pray after the meal to thank the Lord. Just an idea for
this situtation. :clap:
 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
Equine droppings! Bovine Excrement! And other assorted types of animal waste!!!

Doesn't anyone know how to read simple, declarative English anymore? The fabled "separation of church and state" is NOT a concept that can be found anywhere in the Constitution! The only mention of any such idea during the time of the Founders is in a private letter Jefferson wrote to the elders of the Danbury Church; it does not appear in any government document or court decision until over a century later.

So, what does the First Amendment actually say regarding religion? It says, "
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... ". First, it means that our national government will not establish an "official state religion". This was the case all over Europe at the time, and the Founders wanted to prohibit any such action by their new government. Further, the second part of that clause specifically prohibits the national government from interfering with the peoples' "free exercise" of their own, private religious beliefs.

Note that allowing funding recipients to pray just before actually consuming meals largely procured by federal dollars can in no way be considered "establishing" a religion. Therefore, by attaching ANY requirements or prohibitions to ANY federal funding regarding the recipients' personal exercise of their religious beliefs, the national government is in violation of the second part of the Establishment clause of the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

It is not Politically Correct to mention the above facts (not opinions) in this age where we are not supposed to do or say anything that could possibly offend anyone, no matter what. However, I have not yet become infected with the PC virus, and so am willing to raise as much hell as necessary to get the truth out.

 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
Now if we consider the Jewish response
to meals, they pray after the meal to thank the Lord. Just an idea for
this situtation. :clap:

The prayer before the meal might be even better. Translated into English it reads: "Praised by thou, oh Lord our God, King of the Universe, who bringeth forth food from the earth." This acknowledges God and gets around the problem of thanking Him for food that you may not actually receive. (History taught the Jews that anything could be taken from them at any time.)

 

mak2

Active member
I have ate many meals paid for by the federal government. Never once have I had anyone try to stop me from saying grace. Not once, ever. In fact I will eat lunch tommrow on fed money. I will let you know how it goes. I will even thank the Lord for you guys and Obama. Sometimes this stuff is so over the top.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
I have ate many meals paid for by the federal government. Never once have I had anyone try to stop me from saying grace. Not once, ever. In fact I will eat lunch tommrow on fed money. I will let you know how it goes. I will even thank the Lord for you guys and Obama. Sometimes this stuff is so over the top.
Agreed Mak. P.C. gone mad.
 

norscaner

Active member
I would have loved to meet someone who could tell my Mother that she could not pray before a meal. She wore the love for her God on her heart like a medal of valor worn by a marine. I am positive you could have removed that medal from the biggest baddest marine ever to be decorated, easier than you could have removed that right to pray from my Mom.
 

SShepherd

New member
Equine droppings! Bovine Excrement! And other assorted types of animal waste!!!

Doesn't anyone know how to read simple, declarative English anymore? The fabled "separation of church and state" is NOT a concept that can be found anywhere in the Constitution! The only mention of any such idea during the time of the Founders is in a private letter Jefferson wrote to the elders of the Danbury Church; it does not appear in any government document or court decision until over a century later.

So, what does the First Amendment actually say regarding religion? It says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... ". First, it means that our national government will not establish an "official state religion". This was the case all over Europe at the time, and the Founders wanted to prohibit any such action by their new government. Further, the second part of that clause specifically prohibits the national government from interfering with the peoples' "free exercise" of their own, private religious beliefs.

Note that allowing funding recipients to pray just before actually consuming meals largely procured by federal dollars can in no way be considered "establishing" a religion. Therefore, by attaching ANY requirements or prohibitions to ANY federal funding regarding the recipients' personal exercise of their religious beliefs, the national government is in violation of the second part of the Establishment clause of the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

It is not Politically Correct to mention the above facts (not opinions) in this age where we are not supposed to do or say anything that could possibly offend anyone, no matter what. However, I have not yet become infected with the PC virus, and so am willing to raise as much hell as necessary to get the truth out.


Holy carp !!! One of the few that actually understand the 1st amendment-- and the context of Jeffersons letter !!:clap:

reps to you
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
As an atheist, I also agree with the Danang Sailor statement on the First Amendment. Glad someone understands what is actually written in the actual laws. It also gives one the right not to pray but at least respect others rights to do so.
 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
Holy carp !!! One of the few that actually understand the 1st amendment-- and the context of Jeffersons letter !!:clap:

reps to you

Shep: Thanks for the rep points, but most of the credit actually should go to some dedicated teachers from my childhood. They believed kids should know how to read, write, and understand the English language at the highest possible level. Weird concept, eh?

The rest of the credit must go to Professor Langois of WIU, who taught me that anyone with a decent understanding of the English language, including the critical importance of punctuation, could read and understand any law written in that language, brushing aside the superfluousness and puffery in which much of it is couched. Since the Framers did not infect either the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights with any such, reading and understanding them is relatively simple ... unless of course, you're a lawyer/legislator with an agenda.

As an atheist, I also agree with the Danang Sailor statement on the First Amendment. Glad someone understands what is actually written in the actual laws. It also gives one the right not to pray but at least respect others rights to do so.

Joe: I'm not an atheist, but my beliefs do not conform too well to those of any organized religion. However, I do firmly hold that you have the same Constitutional right to your non-belief (if you'll pardon that crude way of putting it) as anyone else has to their strong belief. Moreover, I promise not to get into anyone's shorts about their belief, or lack thereof, as long as my most basic rights (noted herewith) are observed:

1) There is no such thing as absolute and unlimited freedom, because;
2) Another person's freedom to make a fist and swing it around ceases to exist when that fist enters the near vicinity of my nose, and;
3) Another person's right to their own beliefs, religious or otherwise, does not include the right to force me to believe as they do, and;
4) My freedoms and beliefs are subject to the same limiting principles regarding others as are outlined above.

As long as these things are accepted all around, none of us should have too much trouble. [One of the reasons I like these forums is that most here seem to share those same viewpoints, although they may express them differently.]
 
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