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Has it started?

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
There was much talk leading up to the election that if Obama was re-elected many businesses would cut back and ride out the storm so to speak. Was this just hyperbole or is it going to become fact? First we read of a Las Vegas employer of over 100 hispanics who warned them of this and then gave 22 of them their pick slips yesterday.

Now this. Boeing is cutting back. Going to be an interesting winter.

Screen shot 2012-11-08 at 11.19.58 AM.png

FULL STORY HERE.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Just wait, it's only the beginning .................. We elect a new president and ask your self "Is there anything economically or politically to look forward to?"

You know that bottom I talked about .............. it'sa comin!
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Just wait, it's only the beginning .................. We elect a new president and ask your self "Is there anything economically or politically to look forward to?"

You know that bottom I talked about .............. it'sa comin!
Every business person I know had two plans to implement on Wednesday November 7th.
One to invest and grw
One to cut and run.

How un-American!:rolleyes:

For four years we have held our cards close, mortgaged our future to keep the fire burning and people employed. All in the hopes that the sun would come out in November 2012.

Nope!

The voters basicaly told their income sources to get fracked. I guess now they expect the gubmint to fulfill their dreams and needs.

Welcome to the new Corporatist America.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
There was much talk leading up to the election that if Obama was re-elected many businesses would cut back and ride out the storm so to speak. Was this just hyperbole or is it going to become fact? First we read of a Las Vegas employer of over 100 hispanics who warned them of this and then gave 22 of them their pick slips yesterday.

Now this. Boeing is cutting back. Going to be an interesting winter.

It's going to come without a doubt. It's not going to be all lay-offs from large employers although they will have to rationalize their workforce. The majority of the lay-offs are going to come in dribs and drabs from small companies shucking workers. You remember the small companies?. The ones who employ the majority of the workers in the country and a few of which grow into big companies employing even more workers. It's all history. :hammer::hammer::hammer:
 

jpr62902

Jeanclaude Spam Banhammer
SUPER Site Supporter
Boeing isn't the best example of this notion, given that it's a defense contractor and the cuts are in the defense division. Lockheed sent out layoff notices last month, all in anticipation of defense spending cuts that kick in automatically on 1/1/13 (if da gummint don't do sumpin' beforehand).
 

squerly

Supported Ben Carson
GOLD Site Supporter
It’s been my experience that most people don’t realize the amount of risk and the dedication required to be a business owner. Most people think the business owner is laughing all the way to the bank while making money off the hard work of the employees. The reality is the business owner generally has everything he/she owns leveraged to either start the business or to keep it going. 100% of the liability lies on the back of that owner.

The work day doesn’t start at 8:00 and end at 5:00 and the work week doesn’t start on Monday and end on Friday. For a business owner it starts when he wakes up and ends when he falls asleep. (or passes out, whichever comes first.) You deal with regulations, employee’s personal problems, sales (or lack of), security, legal requirements and challenges, technology and the list goes on and on. And with any luck, you can find some time to actually work the job you “thought” you were getting into when you started the company. You substitute temporary distractions for relaxation, and you spend every waking moment of the day (and night) either consciously or subconsciously thinking about something that is business related.

You spend a great deal of your time doing the government’s work, such as collecting payroll taxes, withholding taxes, unemployment, SS taxes, etc., etc. If an employee hasn’t paid a student loan you become the government’s collection agency when they force you to debit the “governments share” from the employee’s pay before he/she gets it. This can result in your business losing a good employee because they can’t make it on what’s left over. And then there is the “estimated income” tax. This is where the business gets to pay the government (in advance of having made any money) an amount equal to what you expect your business will make in the coming quarter. WTF?

At the end of the year, if you were successful enough to actually make some money, you are rewarded by having to give a disproportional percentage of it to the government, while a bunch of clowns with a lesser work ethic complain that you don’t pay your “fair share”.

Owning a business is extremely difficult and quite challenging. It takes a special kind of person to accept this awkward distribution of work/reward elements, and instead of constantly hammering them with additional taxes and deterrents the government should be offering incentives and rewards to bring them to the forefront.

Aside from selling a little wood out by the driveway, you can count me out of any future business creation. Paying my “fair share” has become too difficult.
 
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FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
It’s been my experience that most people don’t realize the amount of risk and the dedication required to be a business owner. Most people think the business owner is laughing all the way to the bank while making money off the hard work of the employees. The reality is the business owner generally has everything he/she owns leveraged to either start the business or to keep it going. 100% of the liability lies on the back of that owner.

The work day doesn’t start at 8:00 and end at 5:00 and the work week doesn’t start on Monday and end on Friday. For a business owner it starts when he wakes up and ends when he falls asleep. (or passes out, whichever comes first.) You deal with regulations, employee’s personal problems, sales (or lack of), security, legal requirements and challenges, technology and the list goes on and on. And with any luck, you can find some time to actually work the job you “thought” you were getting into when you started the company. You substitute temporary distractions for relaxation, and you spend every waking moment of the day (and night) either consciously or subconsciously thinking about something that is business related.

You spend a great deal of your time doing the government’s work, such as collecting payroll taxes, withholding taxes, unemployment, SS taxes, etc., etc. If an employee hasn’t paid a student loan you become the government’s collection agency when they force you to debit the “governments share” from the employee’s pay before he/she gets it. This can result in your business losing a good employee because they can’t make it on what’s left over. And then there is the “estimated income” tax. This is where the business gets to pay the government (in advance of having made any money) an amount equal to what you expect your business will make in the coming quarter. WTF?

At the end of the year, if you were successful enough to actually make some money, you are rewarded by having to give a disproportional percentage of it to the government, while a bunch of clowns with a lesser work ethic complain that you don’t pay your “fair share”.

Owning a business is extremely difficult and quite challenging. It takes a special kind of person to accept this awkward distribution of work/reward elements, and instead of constantly hammering them with additional taxes and deterrents the government should be offering incentives and rewards to bring them to the forefront.

Aside from selling a little wood out by the driveway, you can count me out of any future business creation. Paying my “fair share” has become too difficult.

It appears that you feel my pain sir.

Thanks for the kind words.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
It’s been my experience that most people don’t realize the amount of risk and the dedication required to be a business owner. Most people think the business owner is laughing all the way to the bank while making money off the hard work of the employees.

And that most people includes our "esteemed" president.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
We will also continue to see a lot of reduced hours to get around Obamacare and the employer fines. Corning Glass just laid off 100 people starting tomorrow. One more bad hit for an area hit hard over the past few years.
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
today i spoke with the owner of one my accounts,one of the paint and body shops i sub contract work from.he said " i will be letting 1 painter , 2 body men, along with 2 full time helpers go",he has more than one shop and has more than 50 employes working at at least one of his shops, he did not mention why and although things are slow i get the feeling .....
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
today i spoke with the owner of one my accounts,one of the paint and body shops i sub contract work from.he said " i will be letting 1 painter , 2 body men, along with 2 full time helpers go",he has more than one shop and has more than 50 employes working at at least one of his shops, he did not mention why and although things are slow i get the feeling .....

If he has each shop as separate entities, he will want to get them all under 50 employees by first of January.

Also, as I mentioned in another thread, i have had three new product rollouts cancelled in the last two days.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Boeing isn't the best example of this notion, given that it's a defense contractor and the cuts are in the defense division. Lockheed sent out layoff notices last month, all in anticipation of defense spending cuts that kick in automatically on 1/1/13 (if da gummint don't do sumpin' beforehand).

The fact is that Obama said he would cut military size along with the sequester cuts.

Mitt promised not to do that.


Here in St Louis, the Boeing spokeperson made no qualms about why they were cutting back. The decision to stay or cut was preset before the election and based on the outcome.
Not an opinion, but what they said here.

It might be noted that many defense contractors kept staff beyond need in hopes that the wind would change in DC. It did not so there is no reason to keep those people on. I have family and freinds at Boeing. The scuttlebutt has buzzedfor over a year.

Boeing is a big segment of the St Louis region economy and this announcment came as no surprise because of pre election warnings. You might note Obama lost handily in MO despite the huge victory by Jay Nixon(D) and Claire MacCaskill(D).
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
If he has each shop as separate entities, he will want to get them all under 50 employees by first of January.

as i understand it, he is giving his daughter one of the body shops to run as a different/separate owned shop. i do not know which, and the smaller of the three is in a different town, now i did not pry into it farther, we are friends and i try not say much unless I'm asked:neutral:

it is what it is:mellow:
 

Kane

New member
Funny thing (well, not so funny) that America intends to cut back while the rest of the world went PHEW when word came that Obama had been re-elected, especially the Chinese.
 

ki0ho

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mak2 probably thinks it is the greatest thing to happen sence peanut butter!!:whistling:
 

mak2

Active member
Hmmmm, I don't see any input from mak2 on this thread.
Mike

U guys really do miss me. Dont u? So u guys think telling Boeing they have to be more efficent its bad. I thought that was the free enterprise way.
 

mak2

Active member
You guys do know we have weapon systemz that dont have enemies. I gueSs welfare is ok if it goez to a corpo raf ion.
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
mak2' do you think we will see more jobs or less in the next four years and will the business's hire and expand or ? just askin.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
mak2' do you think we will see more jobs or less in the next four years and will the business's hire and expand or ? just askin.

I'm not mak2. But my opinion is it will depend on what the congress does in the lame duck session. If they come up with a plan on the economy stopping the 1/1/13 deadline, then there will be more jobs for sure, if not we will crash and burn as will the rest of the world into a depression worse than the last.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm not mak2. But my opinion is it will depend on what the congress does in the lame duck session. If they come up with a plan on the economy stopping the 1/1/13 deadline, then there will be more jobs for sure, if not we will crash and burn as will the rest of the world into a depression worse than the last.

I would agree Joec

This fiscal cliff is huge.

Former CBO officer tonite said it means 4% negative growth next year unless fixed.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
You guys do know we have weapon systemz that dont have enemies. I gueSs welfare is ok if it goez to a corpo raf ion.

You want enemies MaK? A russian Sierra2 was spotted 200 miles off the east coast. Another report has it that within 2 years the ChinaMen will be putting nukes on their subs. Meanwhile Ineedajob continues to pursue a nuclear bomb and is very much capable of building one once he gets the required fissionable materials. Irregardless of what Jumpin' Joe Biden says.

There's three countries right there that would not hesitate to jump right in the middle of our shit the second they sense we are vulnerable.

BTW, speaking of Ineedajob, he fired on a US drone today in the Persian Gulf. Maybe we do not need those weapons systems either.

So NO, sir, we currently do not have weapons systems our armed forces have no enemies for.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
I would agree Joec

This fiscal cliff is huge.

Former CBO officer tonite said it means 4% negative growth next year unless fixed.

It comes down to a grand bargain that was turned down last time or it is over for at least another 10 years. Oh and that one was basically $3 in cuts for $1 in revenue but turned out to be unacceptable to the republican reps in the house even though the speaker wanted it.
 

AAUTOFAB1

Bronze Member
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm not mak2. But my opinion is it will depend on what the congress does in the lame duck session. If they come up with a plan on the economy stopping the 1/1/13 deadline, then there will be more jobs for sure, if not we will crash and burn as will the rest of the world into a depression worse than the last.


see the way i see it,even after a quick fix of the fiat currency, i have no incentive to grow,whats the point of expanding if no one has any money to spend or the money is worthless,in fact i have greatly reduced the overhead i have an only buy product to resell if i get paid first,to many bad checks .:unsure::mellow:
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I say do the cuts first then after 6 months maybe a small tax increase. The Dems have a real bad deficit spending habit. If we don't take away the bottle they will continue to sneak drinks of our tax dollars. If we make them cold turkey it there will be pain for everybody but that is what it is going to take to fix this mess.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
see the way i see it,even after a quick fix of the fiat currency, i have no incentive to grow,whats the point of expanding if no one has any money to spend or the money is worthless,in fact i have greatly reduced the overhead i have an only buy product to resell if i get paid first,to many bad checks .:unsure::mellow:

Yes slowing down job growth to make Obama a 1 term president was such a good idea except for those needing a job or wanting to sell there goods. To bad it didn't work though, so perhaps the will get off their hands and come to terms. I have my doubts though as they don't seem to care.
 
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