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WTB: TUCKER PARTS
- Thread starter weatherby
- Start date
weatherby
Member
Just a heads-up; if you want to go from the steel pontoons to the rubber track system you will most likely need the complete axle housings, hubs, and track frames from a 1978-or-newer donor cat. You may need the drive shafts and transfer case also....
Thanks for sharing that info....I was not "absolutely" sure what might be involved in switching to the newer belted tracks, however, if I get the option to go with the belted tracks, I would consider buying the complete donor cat so I could use the entire drive train "IF" it's not to cost prohibited. I know trying to get four (4) steel tracks in "dependable" running condition can also cost a small fortune, in ether case, I will probably have to buy the entire cat just to get the tracks.
I'm still learning the inns & outs of Tucker Sno-Cats so your help and advice is very welcomed
Please do not mind my disruption to this post... but I merely wanted to do a very simple, yet very important, thing. I have no idea if the 'Weatherby Tucker' will ever be available to reside in a garage other than that of Weatherby... but if such an opportunity were to occur... or even a consideration of such a situation where ownership could pass to another entity/person/organization ... then I wanted to be certain to post my official 'Dibs' on the Weatherby Tucker. The Museum has already expanded into the Tucker arena...
Again, apologies for the intrusion... excuse me, pardon me, excuse me... simple dibs is all I wanted to officially note.
Of course, I will also clearly state that any prior, past, and/or future thoughts, intentions, activities of assistance, information, leads toward acquisition, or another other act of any other kind associate with this Tucker (and/or parts Tucker to be), is null and void given the weight and value of 'official dibs'. Again, please excuse the intrusion.
Thank You and periscope down.
Again, apologies for the intrusion... excuse me, pardon me, excuse me... simple dibs is all I wanted to officially note.
Of course, I will also clearly state that any prior, past, and/or future thoughts, intentions, activities of assistance, information, leads toward acquisition, or another other act of any other kind associate with this Tucker (and/or parts Tucker to be), is null and void given the weight and value of 'official dibs'. Again, please excuse the intrusion.
Thank You and periscope down.
Attachments
I am looking for the "wide" 28" steel Tucker tracks or the rubber belted style tracks, I also would consider a complete older (60s or 70s) Tucker for restoration or parts.
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Hi, I have a '73 Tucker 28" in running condition, 100 % on tracks and rollers' 318 engine, 5 speed trans. plus a lot of spare parts. Paint is rough but starts and runs just fine.
Bill
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Hi, I have a '73 Tucker 28" in running condition, 100 % on tracks and rollers' 318 engine, 5 speed trans. plus a lot of spare parts. Paint is rough but starts and runs just fine.
Bill
Mtn-Track
Member
Kevin; if your pontoons are serviceable, then you might consider making your own steel tracks using new off-the-shelf bearings. The more I deal with Tuckers ever-changing designs and 'innovations', the more I wonder what would have been the most cost-effective move.
The steel tracks had their bearing issues and also didn't survive very well if you got into small rocks. The rubber tracks with the steel grousers also had their issues with getting rocks between the center boggie plates and the grinding track guides against the sides of the narrow boggie wheel rims. I've had both types and they can be a real expensive mess. Unfortunately, the best design I see so far is their new all-rubber track with their tandom boggie design, but that's an EXPENSIVE conversion!
Finding a Tucker with your track system on it is certainly possible, but you will probably find yourself with two Tuckers that are worth saving but only one set of useable tracks. That's what I was running into.
Something to consider....
The steel tracks had their bearing issues and also didn't survive very well if you got into small rocks. The rubber tracks with the steel grousers also had their issues with getting rocks between the center boggie plates and the grinding track guides against the sides of the narrow boggie wheel rims. I've had both types and they can be a real expensive mess. Unfortunately, the best design I see so far is their new all-rubber track with their tandom boggie design, but that's an EXPENSIVE conversion!
Finding a Tucker with your track system on it is certainly possible, but you will probably find yourself with two Tuckers that are worth saving but only one set of useable tracks. That's what I was running into.
Something to consider....
weatherby
Member
Thanks Mtn-Track
I appreciate your advice. If I could just get my hands on a track and a roller I could get a better idea on just what to do, but without ether, I can't get a full understanding as to how or what is involved in making rollers or the tracks.
I am talking with Forum member fr73ed and it looks like he will be able to help me out with some tracks and other parts, my fingers are crossed!
I appreciate your advice. If I could just get my hands on a track and a roller I could get a better idea on just what to do, but without ether, I can't get a full understanding as to how or what is involved in making rollers or the tracks.
I am talking with Forum member fr73ed and it looks like he will be able to help me out with some tracks and other parts, my fingers are crossed!
Mtn-Track
Member
For the basics, the cross bars are steel tube and have been either round or trianglar in shape. The end pieces (penetrating grousers) are grey cast, primarily for the lubrication effects on the stainless steel pins and sprocket rollers and are welded to the bars with stainless. They don't need to be grey cast and could be fabricated with A-36 or AR-class steel and insert bushings. The track rollers can easily be off-the-shelf but would have a substantially larger diameter stud than the Tucker-built one's did for the same size roller bearing. The small flat straps between the bars are stamped out of A-36 steel so an easy part to have duplicated by any shop with a plasma/punch press like a Whitney. If you end up with some original parts that fit your cat for reference, making your own would be time consuming but in the end it may be worth it.
You may also find yourself in the business of selling repro/upgraded steel track assemblies for Tuckers!
You may also find yourself in the business of selling repro/upgraded steel track assemblies for Tuckers!
Attachments
Hmm, new off the shelf bearings? Wow, you must be on to something thousands of Tucker steel track owners have missed. Tell us all where to get these "new off the shelf bearings". Stainless pins on your track links? Did you make them yourself? I have never seen stainless in any steel tracker. Stainles is to soft and would either break or wear out very fast. You mistake the silver look of the weld on the track pins for a high nickel rod. The cast grousers are cast steel and have nothing to do with "lubrication". What is "grey cast"? Weird. The flat stock used in the pin links is mild steel. Where did you get all your misinformation? Also, round tube, rectangular tube and T-bar are the 3 steel track designs. All my information is based on fact, personally rebuilding 3 set of tracks from very different years and many hundreds of hours doing research. Also, pontoons being serviceable is not as important and your track roller guides. I would like to see you cast your "gray parts" and weld them to you triangle tube. Not going to happen. So, weatherby, here is some real advice. To convert your 28 inch steel track to rubber track, Tucker published an update for the conversion. I could send you a copy. A parts rig is an option. The 28 in steel tracked Tucker is a 500 series. You wont find a "off the shelf bearing" period, I don't care what anyone says. As for the problems with small rocks or gravel causing wear on any track system; Tuckers were made to be driven in the snow. Very simple, don't drive down a gravel road! Need more? Contact me by PM and I'll help you any way I can. I have a real understanding of the Tucker steel tracks.
Also, the Tucker 500 series (28 inch wide tracks) came out in 1965, rubber tracks came out in the early 70s and you do not need different u-joints, drive shafts, transfer case or axles to do the conversion. The difference is the pivot journal on the axle. Everything else is a direct bolt on replacement as everything I listed is identical steel track to rubber track.
http://www.pcimfg.com/pdf/pci.trackroller.2003.pdf#page=12 Here's your rollers. very close to tuckers rollers easily adaptable, rebuilding info is around for all sizes of rollers, Lets not attack anyone for there posts please I enjoy mtn-tracks posts he must know a little look at the tucker he is restoring premo!!!!! Just my opinion.
Mtn-Track
Member
That's OK, Muley is entitled to his opinion. The fact I run a facility that manufactures specialized components out of exotic metals for powerplants is not really a factor... or the part where the information that I provided is based entirely on what is in the photo that I posted above from a real, live, original Tucker track laying on my shop floor. It’s hard to see in the photo unless you know what you’re looking for, but several of the cross tubes are triangular, not round or square, and they came from Tucker.
Perhaps Tucker tried to keep things simple for a couple of years after 1965, but that didn’t really happen. As one example, remember the fiberglass pontoons? Most everything changed a lot, and apparently still does. Tucker told me a month ago (when I ordered parts) that the rubber track system that was on my 1958 was not available until 1978 and that the conversion that mine had required extensive axle housing modifications. I’m inclined to believe it since I’ve been dealing specifically with it over the last 3 years.
On my 1953 Tucker, the u-joints had the caps held in place by straps across the outside of the yoke. On the ‘58, they were held in by internal ‘C’-clips and a 2-bolt strap across the side of the cap. I have also seen the one’s where the caps press in from the outside of the yoke with the ‘C’-clip in a groove on the outside. No, they are not interchangeable and yes, Tucker used them all at one time or another combined with Dodge 8.25" diff’s/axles, Dodge 8.75" diff’s/axles, and a later a variety of Dayton’s. Maybe I didn’t swing my hammer hard enough to get all the parts from these different components to fit together since they were all the same?
Transfer cases and yokes? No, they were not the same over the years and since the yokes and stub-shafts are used to set the tapered shaft bearings the spline depth and yoke length is not only critical, but seemed to be specific to the unit. I’m sure modern CNC machines have removed that issue with the latest Tucker transfer cases, but that’s not always been the case.
As for the pontoons, the early 443's had a 5-bolt bearing plate on the outside, 3/4" welded machine-steel rails, and 3/4"-wide rollers. The later 443A’s and 500-series had a 6-bolt bearing plate, 1" rail that bolted on, and 1"-wide rollers. They are not interchangeable without extensive modifications.
Just for fun, Google "stud bearings" and "cam follower bearings". Tucker made their own and they were unique in the length and diameter of the stud verses the size of the roller on the end. If the grousers had more ‘meat’ in the area where the stud mounts then there would be a whole host of options that would work. I you were to make your own grousers, an off-the-shelf "flanged stud bearing" could easily be used. Not really rocket science here.
The rubber-track frames changed several times also, especially the length and I.D. of the pivot tube that goes over the axle housing. The latest one’s have an insert bushing in them instead of metal-to-metal contact between the tube and axle rings. Even the wheels have changed from the 12" rim, 1" rubber wheel to the 10" rim, 2" rubber wheel. The width of the wheel hubs and diameter of the shaft seals and seal collars have also changed over the years. Durometer of the rubber varies depending if the wheel is used as an end-wheel or a middle wheel. Urethane wheels are yet another story. My rubber tracks use the hy-fax wear bar over the top of the frame, the new one’s use rubber rollers, neither are interchangeable since the frames are different.
Mild steel grousers riding on steel pins would spall quickly and fail without any type of bearing. Are there any bearings between the pins and grousers of a steel-track Tucker? No. That’s because the grousers are grey cast steel which has a Brinell Hardness around 700. They are brittle and the rollers do break off if you bind them up. The track pins are not pure stainless steel, just have a high nickel content to help prevent rusting and are also hardened. This substantially reduces the friction between the two and allows a Tucker track to work without any bushings in wet conditions. Are the cross tubes cast? No, they are ‘mild steel’, and have to be welded to the cast with high-nickel rod. You know, something like 309L STAINLESS?
I do find it interesting that someone would believe that Tucker never experimented throughout the years with their product and all the parts are interchangeable.......
Again, maybe I’m just not using a big enough hammer. OR, I could just be making all this up to hose a fellow cat owner. If you believe that, then I have a friend in Nigeria that needs some banking help.
Perhaps Tucker tried to keep things simple for a couple of years after 1965, but that didn’t really happen. As one example, remember the fiberglass pontoons? Most everything changed a lot, and apparently still does. Tucker told me a month ago (when I ordered parts) that the rubber track system that was on my 1958 was not available until 1978 and that the conversion that mine had required extensive axle housing modifications. I’m inclined to believe it since I’ve been dealing specifically with it over the last 3 years.
On my 1953 Tucker, the u-joints had the caps held in place by straps across the outside of the yoke. On the ‘58, they were held in by internal ‘C’-clips and a 2-bolt strap across the side of the cap. I have also seen the one’s where the caps press in from the outside of the yoke with the ‘C’-clip in a groove on the outside. No, they are not interchangeable and yes, Tucker used them all at one time or another combined with Dodge 8.25" diff’s/axles, Dodge 8.75" diff’s/axles, and a later a variety of Dayton’s. Maybe I didn’t swing my hammer hard enough to get all the parts from these different components to fit together since they were all the same?
Transfer cases and yokes? No, they were not the same over the years and since the yokes and stub-shafts are used to set the tapered shaft bearings the spline depth and yoke length is not only critical, but seemed to be specific to the unit. I’m sure modern CNC machines have removed that issue with the latest Tucker transfer cases, but that’s not always been the case.
As for the pontoons, the early 443's had a 5-bolt bearing plate on the outside, 3/4" welded machine-steel rails, and 3/4"-wide rollers. The later 443A’s and 500-series had a 6-bolt bearing plate, 1" rail that bolted on, and 1"-wide rollers. They are not interchangeable without extensive modifications.
Just for fun, Google "stud bearings" and "cam follower bearings". Tucker made their own and they were unique in the length and diameter of the stud verses the size of the roller on the end. If the grousers had more ‘meat’ in the area where the stud mounts then there would be a whole host of options that would work. I you were to make your own grousers, an off-the-shelf "flanged stud bearing" could easily be used. Not really rocket science here.
The rubber-track frames changed several times also, especially the length and I.D. of the pivot tube that goes over the axle housing. The latest one’s have an insert bushing in them instead of metal-to-metal contact between the tube and axle rings. Even the wheels have changed from the 12" rim, 1" rubber wheel to the 10" rim, 2" rubber wheel. The width of the wheel hubs and diameter of the shaft seals and seal collars have also changed over the years. Durometer of the rubber varies depending if the wheel is used as an end-wheel or a middle wheel. Urethane wheels are yet another story. My rubber tracks use the hy-fax wear bar over the top of the frame, the new one’s use rubber rollers, neither are interchangeable since the frames are different.
Mild steel grousers riding on steel pins would spall quickly and fail without any type of bearing. Are there any bearings between the pins and grousers of a steel-track Tucker? No. That’s because the grousers are grey cast steel which has a Brinell Hardness around 700. They are brittle and the rollers do break off if you bind them up. The track pins are not pure stainless steel, just have a high nickel content to help prevent rusting and are also hardened. This substantially reduces the friction between the two and allows a Tucker track to work without any bushings in wet conditions. Are the cross tubes cast? No, they are ‘mild steel’, and have to be welded to the cast with high-nickel rod. You know, something like 309L STAINLESS?
I do find it interesting that someone would believe that Tucker never experimented throughout the years with their product and all the parts are interchangeable.......
Again, maybe I’m just not using a big enough hammer. OR, I could just be making all this up to hose a fellow cat owner. If you believe that, then I have a friend in Nigeria that needs some banking help.
Hi Weatherby,
Found this old posting that has a link to a manual that shows the conversion of the steel pontoons to rubber tracks. http://www.goldcordmine.com/manuals/
It is in the Tucker Series 1500 manual. It may or may not help you but thought I would pass it along.
Found this old posting that has a link to a manual that shows the conversion of the steel pontoons to rubber tracks. http://www.goldcordmine.com/manuals/
It is in the Tucker Series 1500 manual. It may or may not help you but thought I would pass it along.
weatherby
Member
Thanks Wakeupcall .....much appreciated
That's OK, Muley is entitled to his opinion. The fact I run a facility that manufactures specialized components out of exotic metals for powerplants is not really a factor... or the part where the information that I provided is based entirely on what is in the photo that I posted above from a real, live, original Tucker track laying on my shop floor. It’s hard to see in the photo unless you know what you’re looking for, but several of the cross tubes are triangular, not round or square, and they came from Tucker.
Perhaps Tucker tried to keep things simple for a couple of years after 1965, but that didn’t really happen. As one example, remember the fiberglass pontoons? Most everything changed a lot, and apparently still does. Tucker told me a month ago (when I ordered parts) that the rubber track system that was on my 1958 was not available until 1978 and that the conversion that mine had required extensive axle housing modifications. I’m inclined to believe it since I’ve been dealing specifically with it over the last 3 years.
On my 1953 Tucker, the u-joints had the caps held in place by straps across the outside of the yoke. On the ‘58, they were held in by internal ‘C’-clips and a 2-bolt strap across the side of the cap. I have also seen the one’s where the caps press in from the outside of the yoke with the ‘C’-clip in a groove on the outside. No, they are not interchangeable and yes, Tucker used them all at one time or another combined with Dodge 8.25" diff’s/axles, Dodge 8.75" diff’s/axles, and a later a variety of Dayton’s. Maybe I didn’t swing my hammer hard enough to get all the parts from these different components to fit together since they were all the same?
Transfer cases and yokes? No, they were not the same over the years and since the yokes and stub-shafts are used to set the tapered shaft bearings the spline depth and yoke length is not only critical, but seemed to be specific to the unit. I’m sure modern CNC machines have removed that issue with the latest Tucker transfer cases, but that’s not always been the case.
As for the pontoons, the early 443's had a 5-bolt bearing plate on the outside, 3/4" welded machine-steel rails, and 3/4"-wide rollers. The later 443A’s and 500-series had a 6-bolt bearing plate, 1" rail that bolted on, and 1"-wide rollers. They are not interchangeable without extensive modifications.
Just for fun, Google "stud bearings" and "cam follower bearings". Tucker made their own and they were unique in the length and diameter of the stud verses the size of the roller on the end. If the grousers had more ‘meat’ in the area where the stud mounts then there would be a whole host of options that would work. I you were to make your own grousers, an off-the-shelf "flanged stud bearing" could easily be used. Not really rocket science here.
The rubber-track frames changed several times also, especially the length and I.D. of the pivot tube that goes over the axle housing. The latest one’s have an insert bushing in them instead of metal-to-metal contact between the tube and axle rings. Even the wheels have changed from the 12" rim, 1" rubber wheel to the 10" rim, 2" rubber wheel. The width of the wheel hubs and diameter of the shaft seals and seal collars have also changed over the years. Durometer of the rubber varies depending if the wheel is used as an end-wheel or a middle wheel. Urethane wheels are yet another story. My rubber tracks use the hy-fax wear bar over the top of the frame, the new one’s use rubber rollers, neither are interchangeable since the frames are different.
Mild steel grousers riding on steel pins would spall quickly and fail without any type of bearing. Are there any bearings between the pins and grousers of a steel-track Tucker? No. That’s because the grousers are grey cast steel which has a Brinell Hardness around 700. They are brittle and the rollers do break off if you bind them up. The track pins are not pure stainless steel, just have a high nickel content to help prevent rusting and are also hardened. This substantially reduces the friction between the two and allows a Tucker track to work without any bushings in wet conditions. Are the cross tubes cast? No, they are ‘mild steel’, and have to be welded to the cast with high-nickel rod. You know, something like 309L STAINLESS?
I do find it interesting that someone would believe that Tucker never experimented throughout the years with their product and all the parts are interchangeable.......
Again, maybe I’m just not using a big enough hammer. OR, I could just be making all this up to hose a fellow cat owner. If you believe that, then I have a friend in Nigeria that needs some banking help.
A couple of minor points...
The axles Tucker used after the Dodge axles are "Dana" axles, made by Dana Spicer not "Dayton".
My understanding is in the mid-eighties Tucker modified their carrier design to use rubber damper wheels instead of the plastic Hyfax rails to support the track on either side of the drive sprockets.
I've had two Tuckers with the damper wheels and one with the Hyfax system. All of the carriers with damper wheels had originally come with the Hyfax rails and been modified to use damper wheels. (You could quite easily see where the Hyfax support brackets had been cut off.)
So a carrier can be modified with off the shelf parts from Tucker to the damper wheel system. Be advised though; it's expensive.
Mtn-Track
Member
You're right about the Dana axles. A typo on my part. I talked to Jeff at Tucker about replacing the hy-fax with the wheels and they said they don't have a kit for that. I could buy some of the parts and make up my own brackets if I wanted to. Replacement hy-fax's weren't much so went ahead an bought new one's instead of messing with a conversion.
By the way, I like your cat. Nice work on the conversion! I like the floor...
By the way, I like your cat. Nice work on the conversion! I like the floor...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Snowcat-sno-cat-/330498071197?pt=Powersport_Everything_Else&hash=item4cf3385a9d
would a set of tracks like the one on this thing do?
would a set of tracks like the one on this thing do?
weatherby
Member
I think they would, however, I talked to the guy a wile back and he wont part it out, and considering it's a long ways from home the shipping would make it to cost prohibiting to buy the complete rig, plus there are no other parts of off that rig that could be used on my tucker. He has had that for sale for at least a year.
Thanks for keeping an eye open for some Tucker tracks/parts GroomerGuyNWO