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Stop Changing Your Oil

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Interesting take on oil change intervals from Edmunds.com. With Synthetic I change between 7 and 8,000 miles even though oil testing via blackstone labs says I can run it safely for 7,000 more miles. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/


Stop Changing Your Oil

Breaking the 3,000-Mile Habit

Oil chemistry and engine technology have evolved tremendously in recent years, but you'd never know it from the quick-change behavior of American car owners. Driven by an outdated 3,000-mile oil change commandment, they are unnecessarily spending millions of dollars and spilling an ocean of contaminated waste oil.

Although the average car's oil change interval is around 7,800 miles — and as high as 20,000 miles in some cars — this wasteful cycle continues largely because the automotive service industry, while fully aware of the technological advances, continues to preach the 3,000-mile gospel as a way to keep the service bays busy. As a result, even the most cautious owners are dumping their engine oil twice as often as their service manuals recommend.

After interviews with oil experts, mechanics and automakers, one thing is clear: The 3,000-mile oil change is a myth that should be laid to rest. Failing to heed the service interval in your owner's manual wastes oil and money, while compounding the environmental impact of illicit waste-oil dumping.

Scared Into Needless Service
Part of the blame for this over-servicing lies in our insecurities about increasingly complicated engines that are all but inaccessible to the average driver. Pop open the hood of a modern car, and a mass of plastic covers wall off the engine. On some vehicles, the only thing an owner can easily access is the oil cap.

"Vehicles are so sophisticated that oil is one of the last things that customers can have a direct influence over," said Matt Snider, project engineer in GM's Fuels and Lubricants Group. "There's maybe some feeling that they're taking care of their vehicle if they change their oil more often."

The 3,000-mile myth is also promoted by the quick lube industry's "convenient reminder" windshield sticker. It is a surprisingly effective tool that prompts us to continue following a dictate that our fathers (or grandfathers) drummed into our heads: It's your duty to change your oil every 3,000 miles — or your car will pay the price. But as former service advisor David Langness put it, the 3,000-mile oil change is "a marketing tactic that dealers use to get you into the service bay on a regular basis. Unless you go to the drag strip on weekends, you don't need it."

Because busy car owners seldom read their owner's manuals, most have no idea of the actual oil change interval for their cars. And so they blindly follow the windshield reminder sticker, whether it's an accurate indicator of the need for an oil change or not. "I just go by the sticker in the windshield," one well-to-do, educated Denver Lexus owner said. "Otherwise, how would I know when to change it?"

A career Navy mechanic who bought an Edmunds.com long-term car just shrugged when he was told that the vehicle had safely gone 13,000 miles between oil changes. "I'll just keep changing the oil every 5,000 miles," he said. "It's worked well for me in the past."

Our oil change addiction also comes from the erroneous argument that nearly all cars should be serviced under the "severe" schedule found in the owner's manual. In fact, a quiz on the Web site maintained by Jiffy Lube International Inc. (owned by petrochemical giant Shell Oil Company) recommends the severe maintenance schedule for virtually every kind of driving pattern.

The argument that most people drive under severe conditions is losing its footing, however. A number of automakers, including Ford and GM, have contacted Edmunds data editors to request that the maintenance section of Edmunds' site substitute the normal maintenance schedule for the severe schedule that had been displayed.

About the only ones that really need a 3,000-mile oil change are the quick-lube outlets and dealership service departments. In their internal industry communications, they're frank about how oil changes bring in customers. "Many people...know when to have their oil changed but don't pay that much attention to it," said an article in the National Oil and Lube News online newsletter. "Take advantage of that by using a window sticker system [and] customers will be making their way back to you in a few short months."

Another National Oil and Lube News article tied the frequency of oil changes to success in pushing related products and services. For a midsize SUV, the stepped-up oil change intervals will bring in $1,800 over the life of the car, the article says. "A few extra services [or oil changes] can go a long way toward increasing the amount of money a customer will spend during the lifespan we estimated here," the article concludes.

Today's Oil Goes the Distance
While the car-servicing industry is clear about its reasons for believing in the 3,000-mile oil change, customers cling to it only because they're largely unaware of advances in automotive technology. Among 2010 models, the average recommended oil change interval, based on a normal service schedule, is about 7,800 miles — more than double the traditional 3,000-mile interval. The longest oil change interval is 20,000 miles, for all Porsches. The shortest oil change interval is 5,000 miles in some late-model Toyotas, but the carmaker has begun shifting its fleet to 10,000-mile oil change intervals using synthetic oil.

"Oil has changed quite a bit and most of that isn't transparent to the average consuming public," said Robert Sutherland, principal scientist at Pennzoil Passenger Car Engine Lubricants. Synthetic oils, such as the popular Mobil 1, are stretching oil change intervals, leaving the 3,000-mile mark in the dust. "The great majority of new vehicles today have a recommended oil change interval greater than 3,000 miles," said Mobil spokeswoman Kristen A. Hellmer. The company's most advanced synthetic product (Mobil 1 Extended Performance) is guaranteed for 15,000 miles.

Today's longer oil change intervals are due to:

Improved "robustness" of today's oils, with their ability to protect engines from wear and heat and still deliver good fuel economy with low emissions
Tighter tolerances (the gap between metal moving parts) of modern engines
The introduction of oil life monitoring systems, which notify the driver when an oil change is required and are based on the way the car is driven and the conditions it encounters

For 2010 vehicles, 14 of 35 carmakers are now using oil life monitoring systems. One GM car driven by Edmunds went 13,000 miles before the monitoring system indicated the need for an oil change. We sent a sample of that oil to a lab for analysis. The results showed the oil could have safely delivered at least another 2,000 miles of service.

Oil experts and car manufacturers are solidly on the side of the less-frequent oil changes that these formulation changes make possible. "If customers always just stayed with the 3,000-mile recommendation, there'd be these great strides in the robustness of oil that oil companies have made [that] wouldn't be utilized," said GM's Matt Snider. Consumers, he said, would be "throwing away good oil."

Chris Risdon, a product education specialist for Toyota agreed, adding that oil technology advances that permit fewer changes are a tool to protect the environment. "If you're doing it half as much, that's 5 quarts of oil times 1.7 million vehicles a year — that's a tremendous amount of waste oil that's not being circulated into the environment."

Much more: http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/sto...op+changing+your+oil&mktid=ob61762858&msite=w
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
That's good news for me!!! I'm good about changing the oil in my truck at about 7500 (using SYN) but I don't watch Mrs. Zoom's vehicles very closely. There's times in her cars when it was easily over 10K between changes (but on that particular vehicle, I'm adding a quart every few thousand miles so it's at least getting something fresh).
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
It's funny, my Durango has the oil quality sensor thing. When I used the factory recommended Mobil 1 Synthetic I would get around 3000-4000 miles before it would set the oil change reminder off. I switched to the cheapest dino oil in the factory recommended weight and I now get 5000-6000 before the reminder goes off.

Go figure.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
go ahead and change it i use that oil for free heat in my shop
My mechanic tells me to change the oil at 5-6k, largely based on improvements in lubricants and his knowing how I drive my vehicle...mostly city driving. He also heats his shop with drain oil accumulated throughout the year.
 

rlk

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Good topic Doc.

When I bought my 2004 Silverado, the dealer said when the oil quality sensor showed 50% I should change the oil. Prior to then, I changed the oil every 3000 miles.

When the oil sensor on the Silverado shows 50%, I have been roughly 5000 miles. This has saved me a few bucks, plus in the 9 years I have had the truck, I can't see that it has damaged anything.

Bob
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I get about 15,000-17,000 with Mobil 1 in my DD 303,000 mile gas-engined Benz, using the FSS computer.

I had two cars that I <never> changed the oil on, just added as needed:

A 1970 Chevy Impala with a 350/350 and turbo 400. Went something like 170,000 miles and I sold it to a buddy who gutted it into a hobby stock car, ran it more than 1 season, wrecked the car, pulled the engine, used it again, then wrecked that car, finally took the engine apart just in case and it needed no real heavy machine work and put the stock pistons back, and raced a few more years with it in modified stock class. He sold it and moved up into late-model.

And a 1986 Nissan Sentra 4 cyl. That one got almost 200,000 miles on her before the trans let go and only worked in first gear. Never changed the oil but I think I changed the filer once about halfway through.

Oil changes are over rated in cars as far as I am concerned. Automotive engines just aren't loaded enough to be concerned.

Then again, I drive alot and always have, so any VOC type compounds and condensation evaporate soon enough once on the road. If all you do is 3 mile stop-n-go trips, you better change it often.

Boats, well that's a whole "nuther" story. PV gets 15 gallons (5 gallons x 3 engines)of oil every 10-15 hours along with analysis. The Carver will get oil every 25-30 hours once she hits the water.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I went to 5,000 mile intervals when i bought my 98 Chevy pickup. The Prius went with 5,000 til i switched to synthetic and now goes 10+. Diesel is a whole different animal. My equipment gets a change every 250 hours regardless. Besides, I need weedkiller for the fencelines.
 

ki0ho

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
250 on the ferguson and 6000 miles on the wrangler........so far so good
 

thepooguy

Member
i think alot has to do with rpms. my 69 olds 442 4 speed was running 2800 rpms (at least) at 65 mph. my ford pickup runs 1500 rpms at 65......HALF AS MANY rpms=half as much wear on oil and engine parts. everyone tells me how much longer a engine lasts today but i belive they still go the same revolutions before the same wear. hence the oil also goes farther. the big thing that made engines go more miles was the tranny that allowed it to cut the rpm in half per mile. sigh....but this is just my opinion. Dave
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Getting rid of the carburator it what has really changed things IMHO. Engine run so much cleaner that the old days. The perfect chemistry a computor can deliver to the cylinder can only be rougly aproached by the very best tuned carb...And they don't stay tuned that long either. Chokes would stick and fuel was washed through engines...Fuel injuection is a precise thing where as carbs just slobbered a bit of fuel in most of the RPM range they were not tuned at. This fouls the insides of the engine with deposits that lead to premature wear. Changing the oil at 3,000 back in the day was a cheap way to help stop the build up of deposits.

Thus we did it back then..

Regards, Kirk
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I seem to remeber that when synthetics first came on the market,they were touted to go 15,000 miles. Mobile One was big on this claim.

I see no reason to have any doubt that it is still true. If anything,better engine technology has lowered wear and fuel contaminations in the crankcase.

One would think any product line going from 3 to 5 thousand mile changes to 15 thousand miles would suffer sales volume. So my assumption would be Mobile and it's competitors didn't balk when mechanics and auto dealerships raised objections.

I change the oil in my Cummins at 3 to 5 thousand mile. 270,000 miles it runs like new and still gets 20 MPG in my one ton Dodge. (1995 dually)
My Chrysler Crossfire (actually a Benz product) specifies Mobil one and 7,000 mile oil changes. I go ahead and do it at 7,000 but don't worry if I go over a bit.

Changing your oil at 3,000 will cost $3,500 at 210,000 miles. Change it every 6,000 miles and you only spend $1,750.00. But if the engine fails the price is the same plus that $1,700.00 A new engine is at least that ($5500 for the Cummins) so I'm not sure what one saves if they stretch the oil changes out too far.

If you lease a car or trade it every two or three years, screw the oil changes. You can employ the replenishment system. But what about the filter change? That is at least as important as the oil itself. Best oil in the world still gets dirty. I suggest every 10,000 miles maximum, change the oil and the filter. Your engine will last longer than the body, suspension, seatcovers and radio accessories of the car or truck it is haulin'.

And if you are driving a Benz,it will out last the heater fan motor and power window regulators by 200,000 miles.:whistling:
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I change mine every 5Kish for no other reason than that's what I've always done. I know that I could probably go a little longer but I've always looked at an oil and filter change as cheap insurance except for the F350 which takes 15 quarts.

My tractors and other equipment gets their oil changed as per the manual. Again it's just cheap insurance. All the small engine stuff gets synthetic every spring.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Old habits die hard. It took me almost 10 years of empirical and verifiable proof before I started going longer. Now I generally just go by what the oil change monitor in my vehicles say. That's generally around 7500 miles or so. I still use the highest quality true synthetics though. As far as I can tell, Royal Purple, Red Line and Amsoil are the only PAO based synthetics and the others are hydrocracked 'dino' oils with various additive packages. They'd probably be fine, but I've never had an internal engine failure except in competition; ever. I'm sort of 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' in nature. However, without a doubt, it's a waste of good oil to go 3 mos / 3000 miles. One of my employees still does that religiously. She spends a fortune at a speedy oil place by her house. There again, she has over 275k miles on her Hyundai. Personally, I think she could easily double her miles between changes with no difference. She just looks at how long her engine has gone and still has clean looking oil at change intervals. I started to ask her if she would have them save her oil so I could put it in my old dump truck and other older vehicles, but I figured it would just make her mad. :whistling:
 
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