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  #1  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:18 AM
lorenzo lorenzo is offline
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Default 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

I have a 6 cylinder Ford motor in this machine and would like to get a new set of points and condenser for it.
When I go to NAPA or AUTO ZONE ECT. they look at me like Dear in the headlights and say "We need a part number"

I really don't know for sure what to ask for.

I realize it's an industrial engine, a Ford but they say there are several different ones.

Any one have a part number for a set of points??
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Engine numbers in a search helped me on my bombi
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

POINTS ???? What millennium u in bro ?
If it was mine I'd slam an electronic ignition in it and be done.
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Old 12-01-2017, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

http://pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

Easy install. I put a set in a 53 Ford and it worked great.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

I have a Pertronix in my 1402 with a Wisconsin engine. I wouldn't bother trying to fix the old points distributor.
Their Tech phone number is (909) 547-9058.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Sure, you could go electronic ignition but where is the sense of adventure? Personally I like knowing I am doing it the way they would have been in the 70's and facing the same trials and perils. Besides, I like keeping my machines all original. Would you put electric ignition in an all original 500GT?

While I can't help you with the part numbers all I can suggest is to see what vehicles they put that ford block into and take it from there
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Sure, you could go electronic ignition but where is the sense of adventure? Personally I like knowing I am doing it the way they would have been in the 70's and facing the same trials and perils. Besides, I like keeping my machines all original. Would you put electric ignition in an all original 500GT?

While I can't help you with the part numbers all I can suggest is to see what vehicles they put that ford block into and take it from there.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

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Originally Posted by rodre View Post
Sure, you could go electronic ignition but where is the sense of adventure? Personally I like knowing I am doing it the way they would have been in the 70's and facing the same trials and perils. Besides, I like keeping my machines all original. Would you put electric ignition in an all original 500GT?
YES. Although I am all about functionality vs original doorstop/paperweight genuinity
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

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YES. Although I am all about functionality vs original doorstop/paperweight genuinity
And that my friend is the power of living in the free world
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

While agree the electronic conversion is SOOOOOO nice. If you are still looking for a points set up: NAPA CS753 for Points; FA-82 Condensoer; FA-69 Cap; FA158 Rotor.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2017, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

the 1450 motor is basically 60s Mustang Motor (to what I was told) - when i rebuilt mine...
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Looks like I get to eat words here, anyone have the part number for the Pertronix electronic ignition for the 1404 v4 engine or the distributor type?

It is either cold or raining where I am and I don't want to keep using the carb ether spray to start the Imp up.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2018, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

For the v4 104ci in the 1975 1404 Imp it looks like the distributor is a Bosch 0-231-170-028. The earlier year engines that has the different ventilation (vacuum?) for the engine probably have a different distributor as it states somewhere else in these forums and alluded to in the Saab v4 service manual here:

http://www.vintagesaabmanuals.org/up...70-_150dpi.pdf

The Imp Manual states the ignition coil is a C0NF-12029-A (or maybe CONF-12029-A) but mine appears to be a D0PF-12029-B (or maybe a DOPF-12029-B) and appears to be original to the cat judging from the patina.

In any case it looks like the correct Pertronix electronic ignition parts can be found here:

Distributor ID 0-231-170-028 (Search Again)

Make Bosch Distributor # 0-231-170-028
Additional #s 72TF12100AKA
Cylinders 4
Ignitor 6V Negative Ground 1847VN6
Ignitor 12V Negative Ground 1847V
Ignitor 24V Negative Ground
Ignitor 6V Positive Ground
Ignitor 12V Positive Ground
Ignitor 2 91847V
Ignitor 3
Coil Application Chart



I am thinking to go with the Ignitor II version and corresponding coil. I believe they state something about not using solid core spark plug wires with this but I am waiting to hear back from their tech support in regards to what all I need. Will post back what they say.

One question I am left with is if there are anything I should be concerned about from increasing the voltage to plugs from ~20,000 to 45,000 volts?
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Spark voltage is a function of the combination of the spark plug gap and distributor rotor gap. The coil rating is what the coil secondary is capable of generating. Too big a plug gap will raise the voltage to a higher level and break down the plug wires and coil components more rapidly. High compression engines also need a higher voltage due to the denser air in the cylinder at ignition. I don't think we have that problem.
The old GM high energy ignition system on the Olds 455 (coil in the distributor cap) was capable of 65,000 volts and used a .060 plug gap. The problem was the big spark gap and high compression caused a lot of coil failures. Most people run .040 on the plugs these days.
The Pertronix distributor and mating coil should be fine on a Ford industrial engine.
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Yes, I read that there were stock coils failing with the Pertronix electronic ignition so I was going to get the matching Pertronix coil while I was at it. I am also replacing the plug wires with NGK RC-EUX015. These wires are the correct ones with the 90 degree spark plug boot on the #1 plug that is tight by the alternator. The Denso ones are all straight on the spark plug side and that causes the #1 plug wire to rub on the alternator mounting - probably not where you want arcing or direct contact once the silicone insulation rubs off with all the vibration. If Pertronix makes cables that would work for this application it is not readily obvious as I could not find the cable length for each of their kits - too bad, I would have liked some nice red ones.

I am glad you brought up the spark plug gap. The Thiokol Imp manual does not mention anything for plug make/model or gap. The only thing I could find on the subject is in the Saab v4 manual, which is for the 1.7 liter version, and calls for a 0.024 - 0.028 in. gap. It mentions the NGK BP-6E spark plug which I can get to cross reference to a NGK BPR6EIX (Iridium tip version) with a factory set 0.032 gap. Do you think I should re-gap this to the 0.024-0.028 range, leave it at 0.032, or re-gap to 0.040?
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

I would go with the book values but .032 wouldn't hurt anything. The .040 I mentioned was for the Olds 455 with high energy ignition. I have a Pertronix system (distributor and coil) on my VH4D Wisconsin in the 1402. The book plug gap on it is .030.

You have to be careful with coils. Some have a built in resistor, some don't and require an external one. The Pertronix coil is made with a built in resistor for use with their distributor. If you run a coil with no resistor, there is no resistance to reduce the coil current when the points are closed and the engine isn't running. Pure DC will burn out a coil if it isn't pulsing or doesn't have a resistor.
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Last edited by turbinator62; 01-26-2018 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

I put one in my bombi and used my stock coil. Big mistake on my part. Coil failed and i was a few miles in.
New coil and drove out.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbinator62 View Post
I would go with the book values but .032 wouldn't hurt anything. The .040 I mentioned was for the Olds 455 with high energy ignition. I have a Pertronix system (distributor and coil) on my VH4D Wisconsin in the 1402. The book plug gap on it is .030.

You have to be careful with coils. Some have a built in resistor, some don't and require an external one. The Pertronix coil is made with a built in resistor for use with their distributor. If you run a coil with no resistor, there is no resistance to reduce the coil current when the points are closed and the engine isn't running. Pure DC will burn out a coil if it isn't pulsing or doesn't have a resistor.
Thanks for the info. How can I tell if the current one has an external resistor, any hints? If the Pertronix one comes with a built in resistor and the current one utilizes an external resistor would I need to remove the external resistor?
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: 1450 DMC ? part number help please.

Usually on older vehicles the resistor is a ceramic block about 3'' long but not always. Trace your coil wire back from the coil to the ignition switch. If it is there it will be in series with the coil wire. Many standard coils had resistors built in also. Check the resistance across the 2 terminals on the coil and compare it to the Pertronix chart above. The stock Wisconsin coil has a built in resistor, but it is at the cabin so I can't measure it.

You will always measure some resistance on a coil primary just from the resistance of the wire in the primary winding.

I would buy the Pertronix coil and keep your old one for an emergency carry on spare. That's what I do. The coil they sell is designed to work with the electronic sensor in the distributor which has much faster switching than points have. My cat has an incredibly hot spark with that combination compared to the old coil and points or magneto system.

Notice that the coils for 8 cylinder engines have a lower resistance than those for 4 cylinder engines. At operating RPM, the frequency of the pulses on the coil are higher (more cylinders firing per revolution ). When an inductor (coil) has an AC or pulsing DC signal on it, its internal resistance (impedance) increases due to the expanding and collapsing magnetic field. (reluctance). As the frequency increases, the impedance increases which increases the effective internal resistance. So an 8 cylinder engine uses a lower resistance coil than a 4 cylinder in order to have a hot enough spark.

To complicate matters further, when cars switched to 12 volt systems, they still used 6 volt coils. There was a resistor in series with them to keep them from burning out while running. But during start, there was an extra contact on the starter solenoid that would provide full battery voltage to the coil (bypassing the resistor) for easier starting and because the battery voltage would drop while cranking. (this doesn't hurt the coil because the ignition signal is pulsing during startup) Automotive ignition systems have come a long way since then.

Hope this all makes sense. This is why I love working on jet engines. Spin em, squirt in some fuel and light it. Something is going to happen for sure. No distributor, no timing, no points or rotor.
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