Any GM/Chevy Mechanics here?

JimR · Oct 9, 2005

My son came home last night from D.C. with my 2000 Blazer S-10 4.3 V6. The engine light was on. I took it down and had it checked at a parts store. They said that it showed the truck was skipping intermittently and that the 02 sensor was gone. I figured with 120K on the truck I'd change all 3 sensors and end that problem. I had the light reset and it still drives like an underpowered piece of shit. The motor has only 12,000 miles on it. I replaced it last year with a brand new complete engine. if you are driving on flat ground it runs fine. As soon as you try to pull a hill it has no balls whatsoever and may misfire. In 2nd gear it will wind out to 3800 rpm's tops. The fuel pump is fine and tested fine. I also replaced the spark plugs. I see no loose vacuum lines or anything else wrong with it. The timing is non adjustable and it does advance when revved up. The motor will redline in nuetral with no problem. Any suggestions before I take it to a dealer (ouch) The engine light is back on again now.

DaveNay · Oct 9, 2005

Did you disconnect the battery at all? Modern ECUs will actually stor a profile of the sensors performance, and then adjust other parameters accordingly. The new O2 sensors will have different performance profiles, and the ECU is attempting to use the old data. Try disconnecting the battery for 10-15 minuted to let the computer clear it's memory, then drive around in various conditions. Low speed, high speed, low throttle, high throttle. If you have a trailer, put it on and tow it also.

Dave

Doc · Oct 9, 2005

My son is a mechanic at a non dealership shop.
He said you might ck out the fuel filter.
Also, he said before replacing that you might do a fuel preasure ck (middle of the fuel rail, probably. Looks like the cap off a tire valve). An Auto parts store would probably ck this for you. But you watch it to, if it drops when you rev it up, it means you have a bad fuel pump or dirty fule filter. This indicates problems under load, like you mentioned for going up a hill.
Hope this helps

JimR · Oct 9, 2005

DaveNay said:
Did you disconnect the battery at all? Modern ECUs will actually stor a profile of the sensors performance, and then adjust other parameters accordingly. The new O2 sensors will have different performance profiles, and the ECU is attempting to use the old data. Try disconnecting the battery for 10-15 minuted to let the computer clear it's memory, then drive around in various conditions. Low speed, high speed, low throttle, high throttle. If you have a trailer, put it on and tow it also.

Dave

I did have the battery disconnected as I removed the plow setup off this truck today. I then took it out for a 20 minute cruise driving in all types of modes. I started out with slow accelaration and then moved up gradually to full throttle starts.

JimR · Oct 9, 2005

Doc said:
My son is a mechanic at a non dealership shop.
He said you might ck out the fuel filter.
Also, he said before replacing that you might do a fuel preasure ck (middle of the fuel rail, probably. Looks like the cap off a tire valve). An Auto parts store would probably ck this for you. But you watch it to, if it drops when you rev it up, it means you have a bad fuel pump or dirty fule filter. This indicates problems under load, like you mentioned for going up a hill.
Hope this helps

Hey Doc,

The fuel pressure is 55-60 psi which is the norm for it. I ran the motor at 4500 rpm's no load for over a minute today. I didn't change the fuel filter as I figured the motor would have died out gradually if it was plugged. I also pulled a long hill at 3800 rpm's for well over a minute in 2nd gear. The truck would not rev up over that spot in 2nd gear. I've had it up to 4300 rpm's in 1st gear also today. I don't think it is fuel related. The higher the gear the harder the truck bogs down on a hill.

Doc · Oct 9, 2005

I ran that by him. He'll think on it, but right now he doesn't even have a guess.

DaveNay · Oct 9, 2005

The last time I had symptoms like that was on my '93 F-150 with the straight 6. The mechanical timing on the distributor cap had gotten out of whack because I replaced it without having a timing light available. The only problem is, I don't think your 2000 has any mechanical timing that can be adjusted.

Mine really ran like crap as you describe. Felt like it couldn't even get the front end out of the way before the rear wheels came through.

Dave

JimR · Oct 9, 2005

DaveNay said:
The last time I had symptoms like that was on my '93 F-150 with the straight 6. The mechanical timing on the distributor cap had gotten out of whack because I replaced it without having a timing light available. The only problem is, I don't think your 2000 has any mechanical timing that can be adjusted.

Mine really ran like crap as you describe. Felt like it couldn't even get the front end out of the way before the rear wheels came through.

Dave

I thought it was a timing problem also. But in nuetral the timing advances when you rev the motor up. I don't know about when your driving.

bczoom · Oct 10, 2005

Jim,

When you reach top RPM's in each gear, what does the engine do at that point? Is it sputtering?
I still wouldn't discount the fuel filter. It sounds like it has enough flow under no load situations but as the load increases so does the fuel demand and it might be starving.

JimR · Oct 10, 2005

I was able to take the truck up to 5000 rpm's in 1st gear today, 4000 in 2nd gear. But on a hill she is crap. So I took the truck to the dealer to run diagnostics on it. They claim the converter is plugged. But at $1006.00 to replace it I said no. I'll be putting a new one on tomorrow morning for under $100.00. I've never seen a plugged converter that let you run wide open throttle without choking the motor to death. I've had a few in my lifetime that the motor would not rev up over 2000 rpm's before it began to sputter. I will also change the fuel filter as a general maintenance item. I believe I changed it about 20K ago. I had well over 100K on the filter on my 95 Blazer with no problems. The truck also has a 410 code which is the secondary air system. The air pump is not operating properly or is stuck. This only works for cold starts and will not affect the operation of the vehicle according to the dealer unless the check valve is stuck open. The valve works so that is not the problem. More to follow after I change the converter.

Junkman · Oct 10, 2005

Where do you find a converter for under $100????????

DaveNay · Oct 10, 2005

Junkman said:
Where do you find a converter for under $100????????

From the Blazer parked down the road, of course! :2gunsfiri

Dave

bczoom · Oct 10, 2005

Junkman said:
Where do you find a converter for under $100????????

18" of straight pipe $6.00
2 muffler clamps $5.00
A case of beer to consume when installing $16.00

Buying 3 years of (lick-em and stick-em) inspection stickers for $73, priceless

JimR · Oct 10, 2005

Junkman said:
Where do you find a converter for under $100????????

Consumer Auto Parts Shrewsbury St. Worcester. Priced from $75.00 - 99.00 depending on the size. The guy says, bring yours in and we will match it up. I have all types and sizes in stock. I changed the one on my 95 Blazer I use to own. I got that one from NAPA for under $100.00 locally too. The front part of the converter will need to be welded to the pipe due to the bend in the front pipe. The rear part is a clamp on. I welded the 95 Blazer converter on without removing the front pipe with my mig welder. The 2000 Blazer is basically the same vehicle.

JimR · Oct 10, 2005

bczoom said:
18" of straight pipe $6.00
2 muffler clamps $5.00
A case of beer to consume when installing $16.00

Buying 3 years of (lick-em and stick-em) inspection stickers for $73, priceless

Due to Ma. regs this is against the law and there is a heavy fine for removing your catalytic converter. Otherwise, I would be the first one to install a straight pipe on it. I had a garage try to put a rejection sticker on my last Blazer for loud exhaust. I had a standard Arvin muffler on it. I had to get the owner to tell his inspection guy that he was in the wrong.

JimR · Oct 11, 2005

The saga continues. I replaced a perfectly good catalytic converter today. Fortunately the replacement was only $60.00 and a few clamps and a small piece of pipe. My truck is still running like a piece of shit. Seeing how I have a complete motor in my garage with all the relays,switches and do-hickies on it, I figured I'd swap out a few to see if they made any difference. Knowing that the truck stumbles when you take off I replaced the TSP throttle position switch. No change on that one. Then I thought maybe it might be the EGR valve. So I swapped that one out. No change on that one either. Next was the MAP sensor. Same old shit just another switch. Then I got a bright idea and decided to disconnect the wire on the EGR valve. Bingo, the truck runs almost like new again. Hmmm, $120.00 for diagnostics at Ragsdale Chevrolet to tell me a perfectly good catalytic converter was no good. I'll be visiting them in the morning to either get my money back or have them find out what the real problem with my truck is. I think it may be the VCM Vehicle Command module that is bad. They can run a test with their meter to check this out. I'm really glad that I didn't fall for their $1006.00 catalytic convertor job. I could just see the smoke boiling out of my ears when I would have picked the truck up to find out it was running like a POS.

Doc · Oct 11, 2005

Congrats! Nice job. Saved yourself quite a chunk of change there. Are you going to splurge on something a little crazy?

Junkman · Oct 11, 2005

JimR said:
........... I'm really glad that I didn't fall for their $1006.00 catalytic convertor job. I could just see the smoke boiling out of my ears when I would have picked the truck up to find out it was running like a POS.

After getting the $1006 out of you and not solving the problem, they would have just replace whatever else needed to be done and said, you only have to pay for the parts, but all parts were neccessary. You don't want to know how I know this!!!!! :soapbox:

JimR · Oct 11, 2005

Hey Junk,

That's exactly what my son and I both said. Well you know we checked it out and it was failing. But then we also found that your VCM was on its way out so we replaced that too.

Junkman · Oct 11, 2005

The Ford service department told me that the car needed a new cat and it was going to be $1400. I told them that I would never invest that amount in a 1997 car with 95K on the odometer. Being a Explorer, I figure it is worth no more than $2000 if it were running perfectly. Said to just replace the intake manifold gaskets that were leaking and I would worry about the check engine light when inspection time came. They wouldn't reset the light. I disconnected the battery and the light went off. Hasn't come on since... well not until last month. Disconnect battery again, and no more light for the past 6 weeks. The car still runs well, shifts well, no dings, dents, but some surface rust problems. To me, it is a throw away once something major goes wrong with it. Still going strong on the original transmission. I just sprung for 4 new rotors and pads. Figure if I treat it well, it might make it to the next 100K without too much expense. If not, then off to Linders it goes.

Dargo · Oct 12, 2005

Junkman, my stepmom has a 2000 Exploder. She is a travelling sales rep for office supplies. She is very friendly, easy to talk to, creative, and makes a very good sales rep. It's been a while ago, (maybe a couple of years) but she wore a band aid on her left index finger and left thumb. When I asked her what happened, she told me she burned them when she was under the dash pulling that damn "check engine" light bulb out!!

No major problems since.

JimR · Oct 12, 2005

Junkman said:
The Ford service department told me that the car needed a new cat and it was going to be $1400. I told them that I would never invest that amount in a 1997 car with 95K on the odometer. Being a Explorer, I figure it is worth no more than $2000 if it were running perfectly. Said to just replace the intake manifold gaskets that were leaking and I would worry about the check engine light when inspection time came. They wouldn't reset the light. I disconnected the battery and the light went off. Hasn't come on since... well not until last month. Disconnect battery again, and no more light for the past 6 weeks. The car still runs well, shifts well, no dings, dents, but some surface rust problems. To me, it is a throw away once something major goes wrong with it. Still going strong on the original transmission. I just sprung for 4 new rotors and pads. Figure if I treat it well, it might make it to the next 100K without too much expense. If not, then off to Linders it goes.

You really got to love factory trained people that don't know what they are doing. What really pissed me off is this. I told the service writer that you could hold the throttle wide open on my truck without it bogging down in park. I could tell by the look on his face that he thought I didn't know what I was talking about. One short ride around the block would have showed them what my truck was doing. What they did was to put the truck up on the lift and loosened the front exhaust pipe on the engine. I saw them tightening it back up when we went to pick it up. The service writer said that they took the CAT off and took the truck for a ride. Lying bastard, they never diconnected the rear of it. When I removed it. The bolts broke off the muffler.

JimR · Oct 12, 2005

Here is a letter that just went off to the Service Department at Ragsdale Chevrolet. I'll wait for a response from the dealer before sending this same letter off to the Regional GM Office.

To whom it may concern,

On Monday I visited your dealership for diagnostic work on my 2000 Blazer. You charged me $120.00 for diagnostic work to tell me that I had a plugged catalytic converter. This was fine as I know time is money. Yesterday I had this converter changed. The converter in fact is not plugged up at all. There are no plugged screens and it is completely free of any obstructions or burnt material. The problem with the vehicle is in the EGR system keeping the EGR valve in an open position. I'm truly upset that a trained mechanic couldn't find this out by test driving the vehicle to see that it was misfiring on hills as I told you when I dropped the truck off. You got me for $120.00. But the bad publicity I spread about your dealership will cost you much more than that. I'm just glad that I didn't fall for the $1000.00 Catalytic Converter that your service department quoted me. How would you have gone about explaining that charge to me when the truck would have run the same afterwards as it did when I dropped it off. A simple unplugging of the EGR valve has made this truck run like new again. Shame on you folks for failing such a simple test. I was going to bring the truck back yesterday afternoon to have the EGR system checked. The wife said no friggin way.
My son needed to gt back to school and couldn't wait any longer for the vehicle to be tied up. He will have the truck checked out down there by more qualified people.

A very unhappy first and last time customer.
James Robert

JimR · Oct 12, 2005

The dealer just called to apologize for the mistake. They are going to do a free diagnostics on my truck the next time it is home in November.

DaveNay · Oct 12, 2005

JimR said:
The dealer just called to apologize for the mistake. They are going to do a free diagnostics on my truck the next time it is home in November.

That is good news. Hopefully, everything will turn out good for everyone.

Dave

Big Dog · Oct 12, 2005

IMO......They're still getting away with tryng to stick ya for $1K, let alone the bad diagnostics. I'd still be leary of using them again!

JimR · Oct 12, 2005

Big Dog said:
IMO......They're still getting away with tryng to stick ya for $1K, let alone the bad diagnostics. I'd still be leary of using them again!

I always am leary of dealers. I use to work for a Ford dealer that was as shady as they gte. They use to charge customers for warranty work that was covered by Ford, like recalls, then bill Ford for the same charges. I caught the service manager doing that on a warranty cracked block motor job I had just finished. He told me that he didn't charge the customer. I saw the customer pay for the bill. A few weeks later I was laid off from there. I should have put 2+2 together on that one. I really didn't care as I didn't like the way they operated.

buy_25 · Oct 13, 2005

JimR,
I would help ya but KBN (TBN) has the same questions and the troll over here will see my post. You know how the Rodeo king is.....

Tact · Oct 13, 2005

That's why they call them Stealerships. They are only last resort mechanics for me. But they still got your $120. Demand that back.

JimR · Oct 14, 2005

I do believe the problem will be solved. I just got a helping hand from TCBoomer. I'm sure you guys know who he is. Hats off to a true gentleman.

Any GM/Chevy Mechanics here?

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