Front axle on 4wd tractor problem

Ok Folks I need some help or advice here . I have an mid 80,s model Iseki TA255 that I,m having problems with the front drive axle . Being its japanese & grey market I cant find any info , much less anyone that has any model thats close to it other then one guy at TBN & he seems to have disapeared like most grey market tractor owners .

I haven,t posted this particular problem at Doc,s other site because I never got any replys on the other Chinese YTO I own . All that being said heres the problem .

Awhile back I was digging in some perty hard dirt in 4wd for most of the day & all of a sudden I started getting an odd growling noise that seemed to be coming from the front left wheel . I immediatlly kicked it out of 4wd & all seemed to be fine so I finished moving the dirt in 2wd & put the tractor in the shed .

Untill the other day I just let it sit as I figured I could still use it in 2wd , Well I was wrong . I went to use it & got several feet & the front end kind of locked up for a second & kinda jerked the front wheel to the left . I wanted to move it to my other shop to look into it & it did it several more times but I was at slow speed so it didn,t seem to hurt anything . It will also do it in reverse & makes no difference what gear or 4 or 2wd .

I took the loader off & crippled it into the shop & got it up off of all 4,s & secured on jack stands . I fired it up & slowly tried to see if I could get it to do it going through all gears & different rpm,s & no matter what it seems fine & it doesn,t jerk or make any odd noises , theres no leaks or play in anything that I can tell either .

I beleive its it entirelly a front axle problem & posiblly on one of the outer gear housings since it only appears to do it with the weight of the tractor on it . At first I thought it might be a front ujoint but as far as I can tell there is no such thing . It appears to be a solid shaft that bolts from the main gearbox to the front 3rd member & I have no clue how to even get it off or loose without removing the whole front axle from the tractor . Its completlly different then my newer tractor so the manual for it dont help a bit .


At any rate I,m kind of stuck untill I can figure out if it even has a ujoint Or how the drive shaft works as it appears to be enclosed . I just took some pics that gives an idea of what I,m dealing with & if anyone could steer me in the right direction it would be much appreciated . Sorry for the long post I,m trying to include as much info as posible . Sorry for the tractor being dirty but hopefully you can still get an idea from the pics . Thanks in advance .

Yeah, you've got some sort of U-joint where the front wheels pivot to steer. Might be a constant velocity joint. It could be your problem.
It appears that you have an outboard planetary drive on your front wheels. Could be that you have to remove that outer cover, then the planetary gears, and the sun gear which would be on the end of the front axle.
Maybe even one of those gears is broken or is missing a tooth which might cause it to lock up too.
Good luck!

Trakternut said:

Yeah, you've got some sort of U-joint where the front wheels pivot to steer. Might be a constant velocity joint. It could be your problem.
It appears that you have an outboard planetary drive on your front wheels. Could be that you have to remove that outer cover, then the planetary gears, and the sun gear which would be on the end of the front axle.
Maybe even one of those gears is broken or is missing a tooth which might cause it to lock up too.
Good luck!

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Thanks Trakternut Thats what I was thinking that it might be one of the outside grears but if its a chance its just a ujoint or cv joint I hate to tear both ends apart first then find out its the joint .

But that shaft doesnt turn & is mounted solid so I cant figure out how I could check it without completlly removing the front differential if that makes sense .

You think theres a joint where the 2 bolts hold it up before the third member in pics 2 & 3 ? I,ve worked on a lot of front & year axles on 4wd,s But never on a tractor like this one , so sorry for the dumb questions . If I could see a breakdown I could figure it out , but I,m still kind of lost , Thanks again .

Go back to picture #1. It looks like a ring of bolts around the rim of that gear case. I'm thinking if you took those bolts out, the gears, hub, and axle might slip out in one shot. You probably would be able to see the condition of the planetary gearset and the U-joint right there. The axle would just slide out of the differential Would cost you some gaskets upon reassembly, which can be made if necessary.
Look things over very carefully before you start pulling bolts. I'm going by what I see in your pics. If possible, take a couple of the backside of the wheel hub up close, and that gearcase. Maybe someone here can see where it would come apart.
I don't think this job requires a degree in rocket science, just a bit of common sense and patience.

All your gears and shafts are encased on this tractor.

Trakternut said:

Go back to picture #1. It looks like a ring of bolts around the rim of that gear case. I'm thinking if you took those bolts out, the gears, hub, and axle might slip out in one shot. You probably would be able to see the condition of the planetary gearset and the U-joint right there. The axle would just slide out of the differential Would cost you some gaskets upon reassembly, which can be made if necessary.
Look things over very carefully before you start pulling bolts. I'm going by what I see in your pics. If possible, take a couple of the backside of the wheel hub up close, and that gearcase. Maybe someone here can see where it would come apart.
I don't think this job requires a degree in rocket science, just a bit of common sense and patience.

All your gears and shafts are encased on this tractor.

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Yes Sir I got ya , I,ll clean it up a bit & get a few more pics . Much appreciated . What was confusing me was someone told me there should be a ujoint on the driveline that connects to the 3rd member & I dont see how that would be posible or needed . Thanks again

There may be a U-joint in the drive shaft, but, I don't think so. The shaft tube's too small.
Upon second glance, it's not a planetary set, just a gear reduction, possibly. I also see where the end piece of the axle housing can be unbolted from the center section. I'd start with that outer case first though.

Hope these pics are a little better . I took them of the left hub because that was where it seemed the original noise was . I turned the wheel both ways to get a shot of the rear of the hub . I,ll take the outer cover off first then , Thanks again

Well , since the outer cover & the housing appears to be some type of material other then cast iron , I,m guessing some type of cast aluminum & I,ve got all of the bolts & nuts off that hold the outer hub carrier on I it dont want to seperate . I,m on hold for tonight .

Either the other top pieces need to come off first , or as you can see in the last pics it was put together with some kickass cement of some kind . I,ve soaked everything again with PB blaster & also carb cleaner to see if I can break down whatever sealer was used , from the outside as well as in the bolts holes to see if it loosins up any .

But from my research I,ll be lucky to find if I can find anything but maybe a few gears, brgs & or seals . So I,m not going to push my luck on the housing itself .

So anymore thoughts or suggestions would be apreciated . Thanks again for your help Trakternut .

Cowboy
I have a masey that was built by Iseki and although it looks to be smaler than yours it apears to be built on the same lines as yours. and I have both the service manual and the parts book to it, so if you would like and I can figure out how I can send the picts to you. For now looking at my parts manual there is a diff at the center of the axle, then a shaft out to the final drive at each end,then a pinion like gear that meshes with it, on a shaft down to the bottom of the final drive, with another pinion that meshes with the ring gear, whitch is bolted to the hub that conects to the wheel shaft. At least in mine there are no u-joints at all in the front end. any way if it will help you I can make copys and mail them to you. Let me know,
Later Jerry

ki0ho said:

Cowboy
I have a masey that was built by Iseki and although it looks to be smaler than yours it apears to be built on the same lines as yours. and I have both the service manual and the parts book to it, so if you would like and I can figure out how I can send the picts to you. For now looking at my parts manual there is a diff at the center of the axle, then a shaft out to the final drive at each end,then a pinion like gear that meshes with it, on a shaft down to the bottom of the final drive, with another pinion that meshes with the ring gear, whitch is bolted to the hub that conects to the wheel shaft. At least in mine there are no u-joints at all in the front end. any way if it will help you I can make copys and mail them to you. Let me know,
Later Jerry

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That would be so much help I wouldn,t be able to thank you enough Jerry . I,ll send you a PM with My email address , Anything at all would be of great help . Thanks

Ps
The shop manual has a better brake down of the front axel and final drives it is on about 9 pages. will be gald to send them your way just need a place to send them
Later Jerry

I just sent you a PM Jerry with my email address , if you dont get a notice check the top right of the screen & click on personal messages . Thanks again

Bob,
I Had a web site for the factory in Japan, I thought it was in my bookmarks.....cant find it!!! so Ill do some hunting and see if I can locate it, Bet with a few numbers they might be able to give you part numbers ect. also there is a dealer back east that had iseki parts will get back to you if I find anything Jerry

Mornin' Cowboy!
Stuff put together with bolts and gaskets may have some sort of gasket cement on them. With some age and such, they tend to be pretty well glued together. You might try a medium sized flat screw driver gently tapped in between the two members. Gentle tapping and prying may get some movement. You may find yourself going through this routine all around the whole piece until it comes apart. A magnet will tell you if it's aluminum or cast iron. Aluminum won't attract the mag. If it is aluminum, you'll want to be extra careful, but it's not like an eggshell.
I hope ki0ho can help you out better than me.

ki0ho said:

Bob,
I Had a web site for the factory in Japan, I thought it was in my bookmarks.....cant find it!!! so Ill do some hunting and see if I can locate it, Bet with a few numbers they might be able to give you part numbers ect. also there is a dealer back east that had iseki parts will get back to you if I find anything Jerry

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That would be great Jerry , Thanks

Trakternut said:

Mornin' Cowboy!
Stuff put together with bolts and gaskets may have some sort of gasket cement on them. With some age and such, they tend to be pretty well glued together. You might try a medium sized flat screw driver gently tapped in between the two members. Gentle tapping and prying may get some movement. You may find yourself going through this routine all around the whole piece until it comes apart. A magnet will tell you if it's aluminum or cast iron. Aluminum won't attract the mag. If it is aluminum, you'll want to be extra careful, but it's not like an eggshell.
I hope ki0ho can help you out better than me.

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Good Mornin back Trakternut , Yessir thats what I kind of figured with the sealer . I tried with a small screwdriver & plastic hammer to try to seperate it & she,s perty solid , It appears to be aluminum colored where the paint came off But I,ll try a magnet afterwhile . Its been soaking all nite so i,ll see if theres any change , If not I,ll wait untill I can see the breakdown ki0ho is sending Me . Thanks again for your help .

Update , I finally got the cover off after keeping it soaked with spray carb cleaner & slowly tapping a linoleum knife into the seam to get it loose . It wasn,t what I was hoping for which would have been a bearing or ujoint if there were such a thing , I could actually buy in the states with out to much trouble or huge shipping charges from japan .

So far 2 gears are screwed & I have to tear into the rest of it to see how much worse it gets . That should tell me wether anything could have got into the 3rd member & caused any more damage . Anyway heres a few pics . I,ll update as I find out more in case someone else might find the pics or info helpfull . Thanks again for your help Trakternut & ki0ho , Much appreciated .

Bob try Best farm parts.com....... also it looks like maby you had a bearing on the lower end of the down shaft going out and letting the gears not fully mesh.....Jerry

Glad to have been of some help. I'm even gladder (not a real word, I know) that I actually sorta figured out how to take it apart from the pix!

However, I am sorry for you that the damage is more extensive than you'd hoped for.

Hope you get your parts in a timely manner and get your t'a'tor up and running again soon!

Keep us posted!

Cowboy, if you have to get those shipped in, it might pay to check and see if a job machine shop can crank them out. One offs are not cheap, but might be cheaper than having them shipped in from overseas. And probably faster.

Since these parts are not terribly high speed, and the gear damage looks to from debri running through the gears sets, I would save them. I think you should fix the bearing or what ever the cause was and reuse the gears, after nocking down any burrs or high spots caused by the displaced metal. Once I was into the final drives on a D7 Cat dozer. The gears were chipped on the edges in several places. I mean some pretty big ones that nearly stopped the oil from draing out of the plug. That old dozer is still running those gears, and you would never know....

Then of course you could trade/sell it....but I wouldn't worry about it either if you keep it.

Regards, Kirk

I'd second 33 H and H!

300 H and H said:

Since these parts are not terribly high speed, and the gear damage looks to from debri running through the gears sets, I would save them. I think you should fix the bearing or what ever the cause was and reuse the gears, after nocking down any burrs or high spots caused by the displaced metal. Once I was into the final drives on a D7 Cat dozer. The gears were chipped on the edges in several places. I mean some pretty big ones that nearly stopped the oil from draing out of the plug. That old dozer is still running those gears, and you would never know....

Then of course you could trade/sell it....but I wouldn't worry about it either if you keep it.

Regards, Kirk

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I kind of wondered that myself Kirk . I haven,t had a chance to get into it any further yet to see what other damage might be in there let alone what might have caused it . But I will sure keep that in mind Thanks .

All great ideas Fellers thanks to all , I should have the break down from Jerry maybe even tommorow . That will give me a better idea of what I,m getting into before I get it to far tore down , but I am tempted to tear down the other side as well just to be safe . But I did notice when I drained the oil , not only was it very clean it had no shavings or metallic flakes in it what so ever .

At any rate I,ll keep Ya,ll updated . The good thing is its not my only tractor . Thanks again .

I had a similar issue with a Hinomoto E2304 which was brought into the US as a Massey 1030. I had a very grey market friendly Massey dealer in town and they let me look through their computer and find the parts I needed. There were different versions of the 2304 and the 1030. I was able to repair mine for around $300.

Tractors4u said:

I had a similar issue with a Hinomoto E2304 which was brought into the US as a Massey 1030. I had a very grey market friendly Massey dealer in town and they let me look through their computer and find the parts I needed. There were different versions of the 2304 and the 1030. I was able to repair mine for around $300.

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Good to know Brents , I,ll look into local as well . Thanks .

I just pulled the other side apart & theres darn near a whole tooth missing on the large gear but the rest of the teeth look great & the small gear only has a few small bad places otherwise looks great . Funny thing is theres no broken piece in there

That lower gear on both sides slide up about 3/16s of an inch , but it looks like they are designed to be that way , Why I,m not sure though . So far the bearings look fine as well .

I,m thinking about pulling the 4 bolts out of the top of the one that has the really bad gear in it & see if I can see any damage to the axle gear itself .

Now for a really dumb question . If it looks like the gears will be to hard to find or outragiously expensive I,m wondering if I could remove the small lower gear & put it back together as just 2WD . My other tractor is 4WD so I could get by with just 2wd on this one . Does that make any sense ? The large gear & Bearing are pressed onto the hub so I cant see why that wouldn,t work unless I,m missing something . Any Thoughts ?

Heres the pics of the other side I just took apart . Thanks to all again .

I decided the hell with it & took the rest of the bad side apart . Turns out the small gear is part of the whole shaft I,m perty sure & aint got it out of the housing yet . The axle gears has notches broke into the teeth as well . but I still cant find anything that caused it . The top bearing got a bit of moisture in it & its a bit rough but not loose at all .

I,m starting to thing the gears were allready screwed up some & a big enough piece finally let loose & caused it to lock up , cuz its sure been into before Me .

Heres where I,m at now with pics & I,ll update when I figure out if I can even get any parts for it . Thanks again to all .

Half a dozen bursts with a hot MIG welder to build up the missing tooth, (cast machined, steel I am thinking) Grind in the rough tooth profile with the 4" and hand file the rest. Use the drive gear and roll it around the broken tooth to guage your work. But I am a cheap arse if it pays to be. Usually my methods work out though...

Regards, Kirk

Bob from the looks of your Pics, with the little damage that there is if you get some carbon bars---- and rub out the profile of a good pare of teath, then set the carbon between the damaged teath and build up the damaged tooth with nicad rod--then with a small grinder and ber you can do the repair your self......The main thing is to build up a little at a time and not build up a lot of heat in the gear its self. any good welder can do it for you. then a little shop work and good as new......that is the way it was done before the coming of all the fancy milling machines....Later Jerry

300 H and H said:

Half a dozen bursts with a hot MIG welder to build up the missing tooth, (cast machined, steel I am thinking) Grind in the rough tooth profile with the 4" and hand file the rest. Use the drive gear and roll it around the broken tooth to guage your work. But I am a cheap arse if it pays to be. Usually my methods work out though...

Regards, Kirk

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ki0ho said:

Bob from the looks of your Pics, with the little damage that there is if you get some carbon bars---- and rub out the profile of a good pare of teath, then set the carbon between the damaged teath and build up the damaged tooth with nicad rod--then with a small grinder and ber you can do the repair your self......The main thing is to build up a little at a time and not build up a lot of heat in the gear its self. any good welder can do it for you. then a little shop work and good as new......that is the way it was done before the coming of all the fancy milling machines....Later Jerry

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More great info Guys , Something else I never thought about . I,ve never tried welding anything like gears before , I,ll look into it a bit more . Thanks

Cowboy, check over at Net Tractor Talk. I gave a few suggestions there.