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Dictators Mock Obamas Ignorance

CityGirl

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nligvgv3Rfw"]YouTube - Dictators Mock Obama's Ignorance[/ame]
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
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Because he is a gifted speaker of speaches written by other people, his lack of ablity to lead will be showing itself in the coming weeks and months.

We are in grave danger as a nation IMHO... He showed the first misstep in starting to close GitMo when we are still at war... no concept of what he has done...

The "Change" he touts, isn't what most were going to be hoping for....
 

Locutus

Banned
Remember that in the 1930s, the people of Italy and Germany voted for CHANGE! :yum::yum::yum:

And, they certainly got it!!!!! :sad::sad:
 

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
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Remember that in the 1930s, the people of Italy and Germany voted for CHANGE! :yum::yum::yum:

And, they certainly got it!!!!! :sad::sad:


They voted for change..... 5 singles and a $5 from a $10 :biggrin:


See what happens when you brake a ten :ermm:
 

The Tourist

Banned
It was reported in local pper that one of the guys they released was already back workign for A-Quaida. I wonder where his work is going to show up.
 

fogtender

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We never should have been in Guantanamo to start with. I'm glad he closed it down.

So what was the other option... Cut their heads off on camera and post the video on the internet to show how we treat prisoners...

Oh wait, that would make us like them...

Obama won't close GitMo, he won't know what to do with the "Guests" and bringing them to a prison near you won't be an option when the public starts to find out... Just because he signed a paper that gives no direction on how, means he doesn't know either, and was quite clear at his press conferance when he had to ask his buddy if that was all there was or was there a second page.... So much for knowing what he is doing.
 

fogtender

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Murph while this maybe true, there are/were many detainees at Guantanamo that have committed no crime and worse still have never had a fair and just trial. I hope you never find yourself in the position that you deserve fair justice and are denied it!

Really hate to pop your bubble, but upwards of "almost" 100% of them were taken off the battlefield with a rifle in their hands, setting booby traps or other fun stuff that endangers someone's life that doesn't believe in Allah.

They are the worst of the worst, not just "Misplaced" as the left wants you to believe being held without a trial. That is why there are about 250 of them there, not because the were "Maybe" doing something wrong.

I would bet that if they were all released tomorrow, they would be back to killing within a month once back home.
 

daedong

New member
Really hate to pop your bubble, but upwards of "almost" 100% of them were taken off the battlefield with a rifle in their hands, setting booby traps or other fun stuff that endangers someone's life that doesn't believe in Allah.

They are the worst of the worst, not just "Misplaced" as the left wants you to believe being held without a trial. That is why there are about 250 of them there, not because the were "Maybe" doing something wrong.

I would bet that if they were all released tomorrow, they would be back to killing within a month once back home.

You obviously do not know the facts, Its time you actually did some home work, and found the facts, and stop believing all the crap that your Government has fed you.
And for a nation that prances the world preaching democracy to all, the least you could do is at least be seen to be fair and just.
 

Ross 650

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Howdy daedong,
why dont you open up a half-way house for them. You seem to be of the opinion that these are poor abused folks. You obviously have never spent any time around these vermin. Better yet, why dont you go over to Iraq and hug all the poor Al Queda and Taliban to make them like us. Have a goodun!!!
 

Locutus

Banned
oh idk, how about the Cuban Missile crisis, Cuba is our enemy, we shouldn't be stationed on their land.

Sure we should! Think how insulting it is to the monster Castro to have an "enemy base" on his soil! :smile::smile:



Bullet to the head, simple, clean, doesn't waste taxpayer money, and guarantees they won't come back to haunt us.

TAKE NO PRISONERS!

That's the real answer. They aren't prisoners of war, they're spies, sabatouers, and guerillas. summary execution has always been the just and proper course of action.
 

Locutus

Banned
You obviously do not know the facts, Its time you actually did some home work, and found the facts, and stop believing all the crap that your Government has fed you.
And for a nation that prances the world preaching democracy to all, the least you could do is at least be seen to be fair and just.

Fair and just would have been a bullet to the head immediately following interrogation, and burial face down in the middle of main street wrapped in a pigskin! :flowers::flowers::flowers:
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Murph while this maybe true, there are/were many detainees at Guantanamo that have committed no crime and worse still have never had a fair and just trial. I hope you never find yourself in the position that you deserve fair justice and are denied it!

Vin,

I won't disagree with your statement. The OP stated one person has shown up. I just added that I read two and gave a link. And no I would never want to be falsely accused of something. But every person there had their fingers in the cookie jar one way or another. I just can not believe the United States just went out and found people to throw in there without there being some kind of justification for putting them there. And yes maybe some of them should have had a speedy trial and I do agree that is wrong that they didn't get a fairly fast trial. Again if they would have never messed with the cookie jar they probably wouldn't be there.

murph
 

mtntopper

Back On Track
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I believe it is time to do something at Git-Mo. The detainees being held there either need to be charged, prosecuted or returned to the country where they were captured to stand trial. They have been having a good life at our expense and that needs to end. If we have not gathered all of the current terrorist info possible from the detainees in 5+ years we never will. Returning them to the country where they were captured is probably cruel and inhumane punishment as I would bet most will be killed by the current sympathetic US sponsored government upon returning home. Then our hands are clean and the problem is solved. If anything, I view this as a positive step to get foreign allies in our camp and make terrorism the bad guy instead of the US.
 

bczoom

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The detainees being held there either need to be charged, prosecuted or returned to the country where they were captured to stand trial.
My vote is not to put them on trial. Just drop them off at the terrorist camp from which they came. A C130 at about 10,000 ft over their camp, wish them well in their future endeavors as you assist/guide/push them out the door.
 

daedong

New member
Vin,

I won't disagree with your statement. The OP stated one person has shown up. I just added that I read two and gave a link. And no I would never want to be falsely accused of something. But every person there had their fingers in the cookie jar one way or another. I just can not believe the United States just went out and found people to throw in there without there being some kind of justification for putting them there. And yes maybe some of them should have had a speedy trial and I do agree that is wrong that they didn't get a fairly fast trial. Again if they would have never messed with the cookie jar they probably wouldn't be there.

murph

Murph I am glad that we have some common ground on this subject, I would encourage you to read this article to start with, If you care to, do some searches and you will find many other articles regarding the injustice of Guantanamo detainees.

I am rather intrigued by the responses in this thread, the very people that seem to be blinded by their government are the very ones on many other subjects that declare they do not trust governments one little bit, odd don't you think!

Tuesday, January 27, 2009







Published on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 by CommonDreams.org Kafka and Uighurs at Guantanamo

by Ray McGovern

“There is no right to due process for an alien who is not here,” insisted the 44th Solicitor General of the United States, Gregory G. Garre, proudly representing the President of the United States. Garre is a teacher of the law, you see, and was attempting to show a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit why one of their colleagues had overreached. Garre claimed that U.S. District Judge Ricardo Urbina had exceeded his authority on Oct. 7, 2008 in ordering that 17 men held in Guantanamo for almost seven years be brought to his court for a fair hearing on the modalities of their release. Urbina wanted government lawyers to face the 17 prisoners and present the government’s argument as to why they should remain in detention.
“Aliens have no rights,” Garre kept repeating. And they REALLY have no rights, he seemed to be saying, if they are “not physically in the United States.”
And that, of course, was precisely the reason former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his clever band of Mafia lawyers wanted to keep such “aliens” offshore in the prison created at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo, Cuba. Garre was determined to prevent their feet from “touching our soil,” as he put it, on the chance they might then persuade some judge to let them appear before an impartial court.
NON-Enemy-Combatants
Never mind that the detainees had been deemed NON-enemy-combatants; never mind that the U.S. government had already conceded that, despite initial suspicions that they were terrorists, the U.S. government could adduce no evidence to support that accusation.
Never mind that they had been unlawfully incarcerated for almost seven years. Garre spoke of “unlimited Executive power” in these matters. He kept insisting, “We have the authority to detain them.” Garre added that the Justice Department had tried hard to find a country willing to accept them but failed.
The unfounded suspicion of terrorism, for which the U.S. was responsible, did not make them attractive candidates for immigration. And besides, no country wanted to risk antagonizing China.
You see, these prisoners are Uighurs, a Turkic people of Central Asia, five million of whom live in China’s northwestern province of Xinjiang. The Han Chinese have suppressed the Uighurs, their culture, and their strong sense of nationalism for decades. The Chinese government is fond of referring to Uighur nationalists as “terrorists,” and has been pleased to use the U.S.-led global “war on terrorism” as an additional pretext to suppress them.
An ancient and gifted people, Uighurs (WEE’-gurz) created a “Uighur empire” that stretched from the Caspian Sea to Manchuria and lasted from 744 to 840 CE. They considered trying to conquer China, but chose instead an exploitative trade policy to drain off its wealth into Uighur coffers.
Compared to Europeans of the time, Uighurs were considerably more advanced. Documents show, for example, that a Uighur farmer could write down a contract, using legal terminology. Some western scholars contend that acupuncture was not a Chinese, but rather a Uighur discovery. Famine and civil war brought down the Uighur empire in the middle of the 9th century, and they were then overrun by other central Asian peoples.
Wrong Place, Wrong Time
So how did Uighurs get to Guantanamo? Fleeing Chinese oppression, many Uighurs found their way to Afghanistan where they were living in a self-contained camp when the U.S. attacked in October 2001. They were captured in the wake of the fighting, many of them by Pakistani bounty hunters who proceeded to sell them to U.S. forces. Twenty-two Uighurs ended up in Guantanamo, joining others with the undeserved Rumsfeldian sobriquet “the worst of the worst.”
After “interviewing” them extensively, by late 2003 U.S. interrogators had concluded that few, if any, were a threat. Under international law, the only country required to accept displaced persons is their country of origin. But China had been making a practice of incarcerating Uighurs with little if any proof of any involvement in violent acts. The Uighurs in Guantanamo did not want to trade one prison for another. No third country, however, would accept them—except Albania, which welcomed five in 2006.
Some American judges have agreed with the two senior U.N. investigators, who have said that, under international law, the U.S. must immediately release the Uighur detainees. In Dec. 2005 District Judge James Robertson ruled unequivocally in favor of releasing the Uighurs, asserting, “This indefinite imprisonment at Guantanamo Bay is unlawful.” He wanted them released in the U.S., but ended up deciding that existing law did not give him “the power to do what I believe justice requires.”
It was not until almost three years later that Judge Ricardo Urbina, on Oct. 7, 2008 took the bull by the horns and ordered the 17 Uighurs brought to the Washington, D.C. area where local Uighur families were prepared to shelter them, and Lutheran churches were eager to assist in the resettlement process. But U.S. government lawyers appealed, arguing that letting them come to the U.S. would set a bad precedent with respect to others still held at Guantanamo, and the appeals court stayed Urbina’s order.
On Monday morning a three-judge appeals court met to hear arguments as to whether or not Urbina’s decision should be overturned. Judge Judith W. Rogers, appointed by President Bill Clinton, had objected strongly to the stay, pointing out, “The government can point to no evidence of dangerousness” from the Uighurs. On Monday, she subjected Barre to strong questioning. Her colleagues Karen Henderson and A. Raymond Randolph, both appointed by President George H. W. Bush, seemed much more sympathetic to the government’s position that the Uighurs should not set foot in the United States.
It was the tone of the Solicitor General’s argument that hit me strongest. Here is an unmitigated tragedy for which the U.S. (together with Pakistani bounty hunters) is responsible. Small wonder that on Oct. 7, Judge Urbina shouted, “Enough. Six-plus years is enough. Bring them here and let the government defend its extraordinary position.”
There has been no information on what the three-judge panel that met on Monday will eventually decide, or when. It may take weeks, we were told.
Meanwhile? For the Uighurs, more languishing in Guantanamo. Don’t be overly concerned, though, said Barre. He told the court that they had been moved to a “less restrictive part of the prison in Guantanamo, where there are amenities like DVD players.” (sic)
Aliens Have No Unalienable Rights?

I thought the Declaration of Independence was what we were all about as Americans:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”
Where does it say “except for Uighur aliens?”
When we were a younger country and much closer to our roots, France decided to mark the centenary of the Declaration of Independence by giving us the Statue of Liberty to watch over the streams of immigrants coming to our shores. Aliens like my grandparents were not turned back—so long as they were found to be sound of body. The statue was not actually emplaced until October 1886, less than two years before my grandparents arrived in New York from Ireland.
My grandparents were aliens—but fortunate ones. They could go to Liberty Island; they could read Emma Lazarus’ sonnet and rejoice at the words:
"…Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Guantanamo An Abomination
Maybe we need to pause this Thanksgiving. The Uighur prisoners should be at table with us, not in confinement watching DVDs. What has happened to us? Have we lost our soul?
Guantanamo is an abomination—a violation of the spirit and letter of the Constitution bequeathed to us and to our children. A negation of the Judeo-Christian heritage many of us claim. It could hardly be clearer:
“You shall not violate the rights of the alien.” (Deuteronomy 24:17)
My friend and mentor, Dean Brackley, S.J., distilled the Bible, long before he left for El Salvador to take the place of one of his brother Jesuits slain in November 1989, into this observation:
“It all depends on who you think God is, and how God feels when little people get pushed around.”
Thanksgiving?
Yes, there is still much to celebrate this Thanksgiving.
A new president-elect, a lawyer with a sense of justice—and a new beginning. A person who not only claims to be, but also seems, so far, to be what he claims—a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, who was tough on hypocrisy: “How terrible for you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites…” (Matthew 23: 13ff)
What we can be grateful for is a Constitution that provides for a change in government on a periodic basis, so that even when a president is allowed by cowardly politicians to ignore that precious gift of our Founders and amass king-like power, he can be dethroned by vote of the people.
We can be thankful for Barack Obama’s pledge to close the Guantanamo prison, and for the fact that we are free to keep pressing him to proclaim liberty to captives and set free the oppressed—including, of course, Uighurs and others in similar circumstances.
As the National Lawyers Guild has urged, Obama must ensure that all prisoners at Guantanamo are released, repatriated, resettled, or (if there is probable cause to believe any have committed a crime) brought to trial, in strict accordance with international and national law, and the principles of fundamental justice regarding criminal proceedings.
I would add the suggestion that we as a country make an open apology and ask the rest of the world for forgiveness for our straying so far from the ideals upon which our country was founded. Then there can be true thanksgiving for real closure, and an end to a particularly disgraceful chapter in our country’s history.
And then we shall ALL be set free—not only the Uighurs.
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington, where he also teaches at the Servant Leadership School. He was a CIA analyst for 27 years and is on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).This article first appeared on Consortiumnews.com.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
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You obviously do not know the facts, Its time you actually did some home work, and found the facts, and stop believing all the crap that your Government has fed you.
And for a nation that prances the world preaching democracy to all, the least you could do is at least be seen to be fair and just.

Facts are there were about 1100 there at one time, all the others were released due to the level of threat that the military felt that they were. Of those, some 57 have either been killed in battle (the second time) or were captured again trying to kill.... kind of a "Catch and release" program that isn't working.

That doesn't count those that haven't been killed or caught yet, there are some that went home and are staying low.

But the last 245 that are left are the worst of the worst, why do you think that no other country wants them either...

If you feel that they are all oppressed, call your Parliament and ask them to bring down under...

So what do you think the facts are? You clearly haven't looked them up at all...
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
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Foggy at least read the article above before you go on a rant.

I did, not to mention it has been all over the news of late.... I was pretty much telling you facts, not the fiction you hear.

They didn't get to GitMo because they were really good guys that got caught up in a dice game. These guys were either trying to kill people by shooting at them and got caught or killed people and got caught. The ones that didn't make it are dead on the same battle field that most of these guys came from. What part of that don't you understand?
 
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