Grouser galvanizing, Rebuilding Thiokol Tracks

Grouser galvanizing, Rebuilding Thiokol Tracks

1965 Thiokol 1200 36" mostly “A” style Grousers but Three “B” style.

First of all "WHAT A JOB THIS IS"!!!! One thing leads to another.

1965 Grouses are pretty worn out. But about 1/3 still had some of the ware top on them but most are gone. So I cut them out and off also. Look at the pictures below to see what I did. Then I inserted two 1/2" thick, 6" long, 2" deep, 4 ply rubber inserts. They can be replaced when needed. If I was to do it over I would go 2 ¼” deep. 2” only gave me ¼” of rubber above the grouser ½” would have been better.

Here is some of the other work I have done thus far.

1. Two new rear snap ringless (spelling?) drive Axles and bearings.
2. OC4 disassembled cleaned, flushed, new bearings, inspected, vented, resealed then filled with Shell Donex Oil SAE 50 TO-4 Transmission Fluid.
3. All new and replaced bogie axles to frame plastic bushings.
4. New bearings, grease packed on both front bogie bull wheels.
5. Checked and re packed all bogie wheel bearings.
6. New rear track drive sprockets with new studs and nuts.
7. New Tracks with galvanized grousers using Grade 8s and Stainless fasteners.

Special Thanks to Nancy at Spryte Improvement, LLC in Wallace Idaho my favorite snowcat person in the world she knows her stuff and so nice to work with.

I’m looking for an aluminum or plastic stock shaped fuel tank for the 1200 if anyone has one or knows of a reasonable priced place to have one built or buy one let me know.

Let’s keep the Thiokols alive.

Long live Thiokol!!!

More pictures. As the Christmas song goes “Silver and Gold Silver and Gold”.

Aren’t they pretty?

those hot dipped grousers aare going to look nice for years to come might work to dress up a steel track tucker that way imagine how they would look with a bright silver track chain

try western cascade in washington state 1888 288 2658 one day when i get the time i'm sending them off drawings to have them make 2 tanks to stick back under my seats.

Thank you I will give them a call. Galvanizing steel tracks on a tucker that would look sweet!! I can't belive how pretty they look.

/rk

Looks great, who did the galvanizing and how much should one expect to pay to have that done to a set of spryte tracks? the rubber inserts are a great idea, would work great on my 4t4 hydro cat.

They would look great on any cat. How could they not right?

Thank you for your complement on the idea of the replaceable rubber insert. It’s so easy, simple and worth while I think, time will tell.

I have never seen this done before and I thought this is too simple for everyone with worn grousers to not pick up on this. Even new cats should have them I think. This will be a great easy long term fix, then the alterative of welding replacing and welding replacing. It also makes it possible to protect the metal galvanized surface and from eating the asphalt or cements at times. I’m hoping not to see this often but hey we all know this happens occasionally.

Trinity Highway Products, LLC

http://www.highwayguardrail.com/contact/default.html

About $350.00 + shipping.

This is what my galvanized cleats on the home built 'cat look like after 22 years and about 2500 miles. It cost $100 back then. I think it was well worth it and I would like to do it on the new wide tracks I'm building for it. Spokane Galvanizing now wants $500 clean and dip them.

There are a few thing to be aware of with galvanizing cleats. Like the 1200A you have, my cleats are mild steel.

Most important was that the zinc began to flake after the first season but only where the tire guides contacts the tires. The sharp edged zinc flakes sliced up the tire sidewalls and destroyed all of them. So when I replaced the tires I also sanded the galvanizing off of the tire guide faces to save the side walls of the new tires.

My first few years with this 'cat I had to travel lots of dirt roads with not enough snow. You can see where I welded angle iron on the center of the cleat to make a road pad. This was to get the cleats to stop rocking back and forth as the tires rolled over them. The the first rubber belts I had wore out fast because of all the bending. The pads worked but welding on the the galvanizing was not only miserable, it caused the metal to crack, (Hydrogen Embrittlement as I have had it explained to me). So to prevent further cracking and resultant bending of the cleats I had to weld on the little side plates to spread out the stress. They don't break now. The point I'm trying to make is there is some real issues when welding repairs on galvanized cleats. Just FYI.

I think that rubber pad you have in the center of your cleats should give you better traction on ice. Isn't that the way the Bomb Sidewalk Plow cleats work? Those road pads I welded on my cleats have no traction at all on ice. I had welded little 4140 steel spikes on them for ice traction, but they have long since worn off.

One other thing I f I may bore you a bit longer. I don't think I would galvanize the Heat Treated J-style cleat. That high carbon steel may get the Hydrogen Embrittlement problem in a big way. Though I'm no expert of plating or galvanizing. It is said the heating the plated part to 375 degrees F for 12 hours immediately after plating helps reduce the problem. That said, plating is not the same as galvanizing. I suggest getting expert advise before galvanizing the high carbon steel cleats.

Pardon my rambling, -Pat

The second track assembly went as good as the first.

I didn’t change much from the process of the first track. Here was my process if it helps anyone.

First of all, the most important tool you can have (that I had to make) is to take an old about 1/4~5/16th inch shaft. Very long shafted screw driver with a good handle. Next take this screwdriver and grind the tip off and make a long pointed poker/ice pick/toad sticker/Awl, call it what you want. This is to line up grouser and belting holes to receive the bolt.

1. I installed the 10 different per track ice/non-side slip grouser's to be every 7th grouser belting holes on the floor. I attached them only to the outside belts with bolts and nuts tightened up on the floor at this point. Count in from the end of the belting 3 grouser holes before starting, if you wish for your belt seams not to be on or next to your 10 special ice/non-side slip, grouser's. This is my thoughts and what I did.

2. Then I stood everything it up on its side to install all of the other grousers and belting.

3. Then put on the lower inner belt, onto the ice/non-side slip grouser's without the aluminum backing plates at this point.

4. Now this track is stood up with the top and bottom two belts with only the ice/non-side slip grouser's. All bolted and nuts are on the outside belts are tightened up. But the inner lower belt only has the lower holes filled with bolts without nuts if possible.

5. Then slide in the 6 normal grousers between every 7th ice/non-side slip grousers already installed. Do this one at a time, while inserting the aluminum backing plates between the 1" square tubing (grouser) and the outer tire guide ear. Slide in the backing plate at the same time (it’s kind of a wedging sliding process). No tools or bending of tire guide is needed this way. The tire guide will open up only what’s needed. As we all know that have this style grouser that they are weak at the grouser tire guide weld area. So when sliding the grouser into place with the backing plate this minimizes any unnecessary stress on the tire guide and grouser welded area.

4. Then I started putting on the other grousers, still without the inner top belt. Installing all of the bolts and nuts if you wish to build the tack as you go. You don't have to put on the nuts if your belting is being held to the grouser snuggly. If you have help you can have others put on the nuts and have someone on the other side tighten everything up with you later.

5. By only putting in all the bolts as you go (no nuts), one grouser at a time, you can do about 90% of this job yourself.

6. 100% of this job can be done by yourself if you add the nuts and tighten them up as you go, I would not recommended this, even if you only tighten up the bottom two belts this would enable you to lean over to tighten up the top to belts by yourself. This is too much work! But if you are a one man show or don’t like to ask or have any friends this will have to do. Lucky for me I have a few that loves me a little.

7. Stick with the 90%, cut your time in half, just put in the bolts then add the nuts later. Unless your belting holes are too big, then you have to put the nuts on to hold the assembly all together. Drilled my own hole and I made them snug for this reason.

8. Don't forget things like I did. That the special ice/non-side slip grouser's 10 per track have to have the flat part in the front or leading as the cat goes forward. Build your tacks in the direction needed when you are done to lay them down so your cat can be pushed on them with our reversing your tracks. They are heavy when to gather. Build them in a “S” shape so they will not fall on you. Again they are very heavy. Once they start falling, its like dominoes they just keep going and crushing everything in their way.

9. Then insert your last upper inner belt, be careful don’t’ get excited to get ahead of yourself. Don’t just slip it all in you will have to take it back out because your belting will be short at the end.

10. Starting at one end, put in your belting “on an angle at first” “then straighten it up” both in the grouser as it goes down and into the slot and as you can line up the holes. This will help not to tweak your other side of the grouser’s weak weld area. Continue to work your belting, toad sticker and bolts forward as you go. Think of it as a big zipper. You will know what I mean when you start doing it.

11. Now the worst part is putting in the upper inner backing plates with the tire guide bolts. At this point you should have every bolt in every hole, but every upper tire guide bolt is not installed. I used a small pipe wrench opened it up just a little to slide it over and thru the tire guide. This aloud me to open up the tire guide just enough to get the back plate and bolt installed. This does stress out the weak grouser to tire guide area, so be carful at this process not to crack your tire guide weld area.

12. Have someone help you tighten all your bolts. My thoughts are not to squish the belting just to just barely barely start to squish the belting.

13. Flip the tracks over (don’t get in the way it’s very very heavy now!!!!) having the inside up (tire guides up) and the outside down.

14. Line up your tracks with your cat. Push your cat on your tracks (we used the Bobcat). We were able to man handle 36” tracks up over the rear sprockets and over the front boogie wheel and have the seam in the top middle of the cat.

15. I strongly suggest getting a Track Jack from Spryte improvement LLC. They are in Idaho tell them Russell told you to call, just kidding!! But Nancy is great she will take care of you. I have done this without a Track Jack. If you what to waste a lot of time and get so mad you could just spit don’t get a jack. I had come to relies that I was going to make one myself before I would resort to come-a-longs, binders and Ratchet Straps ever again. Believe me I’m cheap even if you don’t think so. I looked and shopped around this is the best jack for the money I know it’s hard cost to swallow, but it’s worth every dime. But if it was one dime more, I would have made my own and it wouldn’t have been as good but it would have worked.

There in one slide that shows only part of the most wonderful thing!!! Part of My family and me.

Long live Thiokol!!!!! Go Thiokol go!!

nice looking job you should have some fun with that one this winter nice to have the family help my little helper is here helping me now.the snow trac instructions call for breaking the trac below the drive sproket and using the engine to pull the track up to attach the ends dosnt look like you have the room to do that on yours.

Thanks you for your thoughts and help. Still need to install the fuel tank, adjust the track trenchen and off we go for a test drive in the field. Don't what to get them dirty, but that’s the way it is.

/rk

I like the grouser treatment! Very nice work!

So how do you get your wife involved in working on the cat? I haven't figured out how to solve that riddle yet....

Not to break your bubble or anything, but i have tried the rubber on the grousers before. They work great on dirt, concrete and deep snow, BUT on hard snow you will not go ANYWHERE. If it is flat it is ok but any kind of grade you will not be able to climb. Not knowing where you intend to run it. Be carefull about side slides on hard snow. Be safe with your fine family!
Paul

She could see how big of a job this was and asked what she could do to help. I would go out every available night to work on it. It's hard tedious work. But once she felt and could see that she could do allot of this work to help, she was on broad. Yes it was so fun. I think she even enjoyed it a little. It was fun just to talk and talk as we worked and so nice to work with the family and have the support. This is the best Christmas gift I could have spending time, visiting and working together for a common good family goal. This is the only way to get to the cabin so if you are going for Christmas we better "GETTER DONE" as they say. I love my family and we help each other out often. It's taken 51 years to figure this little bit out.

Thank you so much for your comments. Good luck.

Long Live Thiokol!!! GO Thiokol GO!!!

/rk

dds said:

try western cascade in washington state 1888 288 2658 one day when i get the time i'm sending them off drawings to have them make 2 tanks to stick back under my seats.

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Correction of phone number shown below. Thank you for your help. Haven’t called them yet.

Dr. Zaugg said:

Not to break your bubble or anything, but i have tried the rubber on the grousers before. They work great on dirt, concrete and deep snow, BUT on hard snow you will not go ANYWHERE. If it is flat it is ok but any kind of grade you will not be able to climb. Not knowing where you intend to run it. Be carefull about side slides on hard snow. Be safe with your fine family!
Paul

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Thank you for the heads up. I will keep this in mind. You did break my bubble. How tall was your rubber?

/rk

The rubber pads were about an inch and a half by ten inches and about half an inch above the grouser. They even had ice studs (like a car) in them. It was terrible on hard stuff. My biggest concern is with hillsiding. you could go for a death slide sooo easy, i did.
Paul

Geeze Doc, you busted MY bubble and I didn't even have one going!

Experience has its merits though. Good "heads-up".

The fact you're here says that your experience turned out OK personally, but how did your cat fair?

I was lucky that i was in an open meadow, The slide was about a quarter mile and i got it turned downhill and rode it out. Big whiteout freefall, lots of fun????

Dr. Zaugg said:

The rubber pads were about an inch and a half by ten inches and about half an inch above the grouser. They even had ice studs (like a car) in them. It was terrible on hard stuff. My biggest concern is with hillsiding. you could go for a death slide sooo easy, i did.
Paul

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Never thought about studding the rubber inserts. Thanks again for sharing your insight and experience.

/rk

corkuck said:

Correction of phone number shown below. Thank you for your help. Haven’t called them yet.

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Gave Western Cascade a call 6~$800.00 for new aluminum tank 23X24X7. Plus shipping. Can't do that right now. But thank you for your help.

/rk

Getting some privet side bar emailings about the Track Jack. Here are some of my findings. I have seen one other but could find it right off hand.

Long Live Thiokol!!!! Go Thiokol GO!!

/rk

corkuck said:

Gave Western Cascade a call 6~$800.00 for new aluminum tank 23X24X7. Plus shipping. Can't do that right now. But thank you for your help.

/rk

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I spend quite a bit with them and have been to thei facility the work is first class and their welders are top of the line worth the money to have them do it.

looks like you could fab a track jack with a trailer jack and some scrap iron.

tomelroy said:

looks like you could fab a track jack with a trailer jack and some scrap iron.

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Yes you can take off the handle of a trailer jack replace it with a nut to run it in and out with an impact gun.

See my belt seam picture (Added again below), if you look every close you can see the blue Track Jack, impact gun assembly just under the body. It's blue with a socket on it, then a 6 inch by 1/2 inch drive extension on the socket, then the impact gun all there laying on the track, just under the cat body. It's all every low profile, it just fits under the body of the cat. You can't get into this same space with a Come-A-Long/Ratchet Straps/Chain and binders/etc/etc. very easy.

A trailer jack is made to push not pull, but it may work the same when trying to make it pull, for as many times you will ever use it. But they are also very cheap to buy. At Harbor Fright for about $20~$60 (see below).

This Track Jack is square not round meaning it's very skinny so you can get your hands and arms around it to insert your seam bolts/pins/cable. It’s also square so the ends will stay straight when you turn the nut on the end. The Track Jack’s big round pins fit right into the tire guides they are bent and cut off just right too.

Wouldn't think a trailer jack's big round tubing would be small enough to work around comfortably in tight spaces.

Just a few of my thoughts after using many substitutes for a real Track Jack (I loved it, would never go back, would build my own if I had to). There truly is no substitute for a right, and GOOD tool.

This is just a few of my thoughts. I'm all about cheap!!! Believe it our not. I'm only into this Belting ($1500.00), Fasteners ($350.00), Galvanizing ($320.00), Track Jack ($250.00), Seaming ($150.00) that's all under $3500.00 easily. Even if you throw in a few hundred dollars for what ever I’m missing you are still under $3500.00.

I still have enough belting and seaming material to do it all over again. Even then, I still have enough belting to do it all over even a third time.

The Track Jack in my eyes is worth every dime but not a dime more for the time, frustration and money it saves. You are just over the mountain from me you can barrow it anytime. I drive right by your place to go to the cabin.

Long live Thiokol!!!! Go Thiokol Go!!!

/rk

I have a track jack but I found that a standard 2" ratchet strap with hooks on each end works just as good, is faster to use and easier to store in the cat.

Mtn-Track said:

I have a track jack but I found that a standard 2" ratchet strap with hooks on each end works just as good, is faster to use and easier to store in the cat.

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Did you make your HOOKS? Every time I use something like a strap, chain or something it pulls and binds over the grousers and the Track Jack did not. Let alone busting my knuckles on the cat body. At times it can even actually fold over the grousers due to their height making the belting gap even further away then closer.

But I do love the idea of being able to store it in the cat, small and light. Cool.

Lyndon has a good way . Have the track over the sproket and block the other end of the track. Jog your starter while in gear to pull the slack out.
The track has to be positioned so the splice is next to the sproket.
Jim

that works great on a snow trac but i don't think tere is enough room to do that on a thiokol with drop boxes

dds said:

that works great on a snow trac but i don't think tere is enough room to do that on a thiokol with drop boxes

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Thank you DON!!

Thank you to all:

Once I had my center two seam bolts in on each side of the tire guides done with the Track Jack, I did push the cat backwards so the track seams were very close to the top of the rear drive sprockets. This gives me easy, upper, lower, side to side, seams, bolts, add nuts, access. Now I could put in the bolts in the outside two belt seams and all the nuts and snug'um up with ease.

Of course you can always get to the outside of cat's belt seams it's the inside of cat's belts seams that are the hardest to get to as we all know.

At the front and back where the track returns is very open with great access to the seams (that's a no brainer). But not a good place to bring seams together for the first time (Ive'd tried it with chains, straps, ropes, etc. etc.). You have to have the center or outside two belting seams together first on a straight area, then move it to the return ends if you wish to tackle them on the ends (or not). On a Thiokol Spryte I think it's easier on the back due to the body hangs over the front a little.

Sounds like on a Thiokol your could also use the starter motor. But you would have to have the bottom of the track off or barely on the ground so it could pull and tighten everything up not just move the cat forward. You would still have to securing/jam/hold the top track to something, so the starter motor could tighten everything up. Then you could bolt it at the top of the rear drive sprocket where you have good access as mentioned above.

The bottom line is we all would skin a cat differently. The obvious way would to use a knife to some, others maybe scalding hot water, maybe a carrot peeler, gasoline and a match, drag it behind a car, have someone else do it for you, why would you even think of such a horrid thing in the first place.

Don't get me wrong I have an outside cat. I love it, the family loves it. But it belongs outside, thus it's an outside cat.

We all think differently but some a little the same, THANK GOODNESS, or we wouldn’t have this forum to share ideas and better our abilities and thought processes.

One of my sayings is that "If you don't learn something everyday what are you doing?"

Thank you all for your thought’s and help it’s fun.

Long live Thiokol!! Go Thiokol Go!!!

/rk