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Anybody know how to get the rear drums off a '75 GMC 6500 dump truck?

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm trying to get that done Monday before I am out of commission for a while. I got the dual rear wheels off no problem, but with no experience with working on those old drums, I'm scratching my head. I've tried to look it up on the internet, but I can't find anything on how to do it.
 

Cowboy

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What kind of brakes , Juice or air ? More then likelly you will have to remove the axle nuts as well as the locking ring nut on the outside hub . Remove axle nuts , pull axle & you will see the locking nut . Unless its a really small dump truck, but thats how My C 6500 was with air brakes . Hope that helps . :biggrin:

Also if it has slack adjusters you will nedd to back them off as well before the hub & drum will come off .
 

Trakternut

Active member
If they're steel disc wheels, they slip off over the stud bolts and hubs. They can be a regular bugger if they've been on there a while. Hammer and heat might be in the cards for you.
If they're "Plow wheels" (Daytons) with the big cast spokes, you have to pull the whole hub as was said before. The drums bolt onto the web between the cast spokes from the back side.
 

Cowboy

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If they're steel disc wheels, they slip off over the stud bolts and hubs. They can be a regular bugger if they've been on there a while. Hammer and heat might be in the cards for you.
If they're "Plow wheels" (Daytons) with the big cast spokes, you have to pull the whole hub as was said before. The drums bolt onto the web between the cast spokes from the back side.
I was going by the pics He posted of the one he recentlly bought , looks to be the dayton style wheels ,if its the truck he is working on . :wink:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=43147
 

Trakternut

Active member
Took a look at that old thread, Cowboy. They are, indeed, "Wobble Wheels" :wink: If you look at the web between the spokes, you'll see nuts. These are on bolts that hold the drum to the inside of the wheel. Removal of the entire wheel assembly is required. PITA, but, that's the beauty of Daytons!
You will need to get yourself the proper socket that fits the hub "nuts" that hold the hub onto the axle tube end. They use a 3/4" (I believe) breaker bar to fit the socket. There're two retaining nuts. Remove the outer one, then, there may be a flat metal ring between, which has a tab which fits a sort of keyway that is cut into the axle tube. This also has holes in it which drop over a nubbin on the inner retaining nut. The purpose of this setup is that the ring locks the inner nut in place, the outer nut holds the lock ring onto the inner retaining nut.
Reassembling is reverse, of course. Install the hub assembly, the bearings. Make sure you've oiled he bearings well. Tighten the retaining nut while, occasionally, rotating the wheel assembly to set the bearings. Once you've tightened the nut all the way, back it off a quarter turn until the lockring slips over that nubbin. Install the outer retaining nut and tighten the p*ss out of it. Put the axle back in place. Don't forget to put the rims back on too. The darned truck won't haul much without them! :mrgreen:
 

Cowboy

Wait for it.
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Took a look at that old thread, Cowboy. They are, indeed, "Wobble Wheels" :wink: If you look at the web between the spokes, you'll see nuts. These are on bolts that hold the drum to the inside of the wheel. Removal of the entire wheel assembly is required. PITA, but, that's the beauty of Daytons!
You will need to get yourself the proper socket that fits the hub "nuts" that hold the hub onto the axle tube end. They use a 3/4" (I believe) breaker bar to fit the socket. There're two retaining nuts. Remove the outer one, then, there may be a flat metal ring between, which has a tab which fits a sort of keyway that is cut into the axle tube. This also has holes in it which drop over a nubbin on the inner retaining nut. The purpose of this setup is that the ring locks the inner nut in place, the outer nut holds the lock ring onto the inner retaining nut.
Reassembling is reverse, of course. Install the hub assembly, the bearings. Make sure you've oiled he bearings well. Tighten the retaining nut while, occasionally, rotating the wheel assembly to set the bearings. Once you've tightened the nut all the way, back it off a quarter turn until the lockring slips over that nubbin. Install the outer retaining nut and tighten the p*ss out of it. Put the axle back in place. Don't forget to put the rims back on too. The darned truck won't haul much without them! :mrgreen:


Much better & detailed explanation then I could give TN :wink: its been quite a few years since I have worked on that type . That should get Dargo where he needs to go :clap:
 

Trakternut

Active member
Much better & detailed explanation then I could give TN :wink: its been quite a few years since I have worked on that type . That should get Dargo where he needs to go :clap:

Or totally screwed up, whichever comes first! :yum:

When you remount the rims and tires, don't use more than a half inch impact wrench. Those hotshots at the tire shop with the 1" bad boys have wrecked more of those type of wheel than anyone I know. :doh:

You'll have to recheck and retighten the lugs after a half day's hauling to make sure things are copacetic!
 

ki0ho

Active member
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Well.... when I saw the post I thought ...I can help here!! Oh well the real smart guys beat me to it!!!! [every time I get to write my name on the wall some one comes along and paints it!!!:ermm:] the only thing I didnt see is when you remount the rims..... lay a sledg on the floor to keep them running true as you tighten them up.....other than that....Have Fun!!:biggrin:
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
What kind of brakes , Juice or air ? More then likelly you will have to remove the axle nuts as well as the locking ring nut on the outside hub . Remove axle nuts , pull axle & you will see the locking nut . Unless its a really small dump truck, but thats how My C 6500 was with air brakes . Hope that helps . :biggrin:

Also if it has slack adjusters you will nedd to back them off as well before the hub & drum will come off .

Yup, that looks like what I have. I've had smaller and larger dumps, but not one like this one. Maybe if I can get both sides off today I can get the brakes tomorrow and get this thing all buttoned up before I'm out of commission for a while. I have a leaking right rear wheel cylinder and left front wheel cylinder. I figure I may as well replace all the shoes since they are all originals. I don't know, but will find out, if the rear shoes are worn out and have ruined the hubs. That will make what I'm told is a relatively inexpensive brake job a bit more costly. Hope not. Thanks for the great advice.

To keep all the fluid from running out, think I can do one rear side at a time with the truck leaning away from the side I'm working on?
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
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If they're "Plow wheels" (Daytons) with the big cast spokes, you have to pull the whole hub as was said before. The drums bolt onto the web between the cast spokes from the back side.

Yeah, that's the ones. I was scratching my head after looking at it because there is no possible way to get to the back side with the drums on. That's when I quit yesterday.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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That will help keep down on how much runs out. Are you planning on rebuilding or replacing the cylinders? The bleeders are going to want to crumble and break. Sometimes you get lucky heating them a little and putting an ice cube on the bleeder. Have a good vice grip handy. If you can get the bleeder out and hone the bores a kit should only be a few bucks.
 

Cowboy

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Yup, that looks like what I have. I've had smaller and larger dumps, but not one like this one. Maybe if I can get both sides off today I can get the brakes tomorrow and get this thing all buttoned up before I'm out of commission for a while. I have a leaking right rear wheel cylinder and left front wheel cylinder. I figure I may as well replace all the shoes since they are all originals. I don't know, but will find out, if the rear shoes are worn out and have ruined the hubs. That will make what I'm told is a relatively inexpensive brake job a bit more costly. Hope not. Thanks for the great advice.

To keep all the fluid from running out, think I can do one rear side at a time with the truck leaning away from the side I'm working on?


Youre welcome . Thats probably the best idea do one side at a time, at least untill most of the fluid is out . But if I remember right the hubs store there own fluid so your not talking about a lot .:unsure:

Its just been so long since I have messed with one I can't remember all of the details . Best of luck & dont forget we love pictures. :biggrin:
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Took a look at that old thread, Cowboy. They are, indeed, "Wobble Wheels" :wink: If you look at the web between the spokes, you'll see nuts. These are on bolts that hold the drum to the inside of the wheel. Removal of the entire wheel assembly is required. PITA, but, that's the beauty of Daytons!
You will need to get yourself the proper socket that fits the hub "nuts" that hold the hub onto the axle tube end. They use a 3/4" (I believe) breaker bar to fit the socket. There're two retaining nuts. Remove the outer one, then, there may be a flat metal ring between, which has a tab which fits a sort of keyway that is cut into the axle tube. This also has holes in it which drop over a nubbin on the inner retaining nut. The purpose of this setup is that the ring locks the inner nut in place, the outer nut holds the lock ring onto the inner retaining nut.
Reassembling is reverse, of course. Install the hub assembly, the bearings. Make sure you've oiled he bearings well. Tighten the retaining nut while, occasionally, rotating the wheel assembly to set the bearings. Once you've tightened the nut all the way, back it off a quarter turn until the lockring slips over that nubbin. Install the outer retaining nut and tighten the p*ss out of it. Put the axle back in place. Don't forget to put the rims back on too. The darned truck won't haul much without them! :mrgreen:

Thanks for the info. Yup, obviously that's what I have. I have impacts all the way up to 1" with a couple ft. lbs of reverse torque. Even on this 35 year old dump truck with everything sort of stuck, I'm confident I can get the nuts off. Seems like a PIA of a way to change brakes, but I don't exactly have any choice. It took me 4 hours to change the leaking fuel pump (that was a must to immediately change; couldn't have fuel leaking in my barn) because everything was just contrary to work on since it's all original. Not a hard job, but not as easy as it should be since everything is tight. Got the new one one and it works just great. If it lasts another 35 years, someone besides me will be worrying about changing it.

My next, and last 'fix' on the old dump is the only leak (other than the 2 wheel cylinders previously mentioned) and that leak is coming from the gizmo at the bottom of the cylinder lift. It doesn't look like the cylinder itself is leaking, just the part under it.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Okay, now I'm stuck again. :mad: I can't exert as much force as I normally can, but I normally break things. I took the end cap off and it has a threaded hole, 1/2"X20, so I thought it would be used to help press the cap off. Nothing doing. I used an impact up to 700 ft. lbs. and it wasn't going to budge. As I mentioned, I can go a lot more than that, but I'm afraid all I'd do then would be strip off the threads in the end cap. Any ideas? Here are a couple pics.

Oh, the 5 nuts you see between the spokes are there just to screw with you. They don't back out because the head of them is inside the drum assembly and cannot be seen, let alone reached, so they aren't the answer.
 

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Cowboy

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:wow:That dont look like nothing I ever seen before Dargo , Sorry hopefully one of the other guys will chime in . But yep those 4 nuts are for removing the drum after the hub & drum assembly is off . I'll run out into my other shop & see if I still have a manual that might show that style . cant promise anything though . :unsure:
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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That threaded hole is for a slide hammer puller I believe. I am starting to wonder if the axles have a clip or pin that holds them in the rear end. Have you tried beating on the flange end? They are usually cemented with the gasket and pretty tight to break loose. That center hole will just dead end in the axle.
 
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muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Looking at it some more the axle is splined into the hub. You will have to get the axle out and that will let you access the bearing nut. My one ton truck has a similar setup and you need a pin type spanner socket to get the nut loose. There was a key in mine that had to come out for the nut to turn.
 

Cowboy

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That threaded hole is for a slide hammer puller I believe. I am starting to wonder if the axles have a clip or pin that hols them in the rear end. Have you tried beating on the flange end? They are usually cemented with the gasket and pretty tight to break loose. That center hole will just dead end in the axle.


Yep I beleive you are right Bill . I dont have a book for that new of big truck , but the smaller truck shows putting a slide hammer in that hole & pulling the axle out that way & the hub nut should be behind it .

I aint certain but I cant beleive that size of truck would have a C clip that holds the axle in though unless it has a removable cover on the back of the diffential . :unsure:
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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No C clip just the bearing nut holds the housing and the housing locks the axle in with the end cap.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
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No, there is no turning that cap with any spanner. It is spined to the entire hub assembly. Turning it would only result in turning the wheel. I put a lot of pressure with a bolt cranked into that hole and beat around on the hub but nothing even remotely moved. I can see that I have plenty of pad left on the shoes, so I only need to get that one side off to change the wheel cylinder.
 

Cowboy

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Well I'm assuming the cap you took off held the axle in , if the center hole is threaded you will have to put a slide hammer in there to pull it out , I wouldn,t think it would take that much preasure . Only thing that makes sense to me . :unsure:
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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No, there is no turning that cap with any spanner. It is spined to the entire hub assembly. Turning it would only result in turning the wheel. I put a lot of pressure with a bolt cranked into that hole and beat around on the hub but nothing even remotely moved. I can see that I have plenty of pad left on the shoes, so I only need to get that one side off to change the wheel cylinder.
The axle slides out of the center splines in the hub. The nut is behind it and may or may not be a pin spanner type nut.
 

mosi

Banned
I usually remove the trumpets, trombones and other horns, first. You then see all the string instuments which must be removed. Front drums can then be slid to the side which will allow room for the rear drums to be removed from the dump. If you are dealing with a flatbed..... contact me as the woodwinds may come into play.
 

Cowboy

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:wow:I thought it sucked trying to find any info, pics or online manuals for tractors . I cant beleive I have searched & searched & cant even find a pic of the same axle setup online . I sure hope your getting it figured out though Dargo . :wink:
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
:wow:I thought it sucked trying to find any info, pics or online manuals for tractors . I cant beleive I have searched & searched & cant even find a pic of the same axle setup online . I sure hope your getting it figured out though Dargo . :wink:

I did too, and I think I'm pretty good at finding obscure stuff. Hell, I couldn't even find a similar picture.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
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I did too, and I think I'm pretty good at finding obscure stuff. Hell, I couldn't even find a similar picture.
Seems both of you are good at finding,buying,and then asking what the hell did I buy this rare antique for!:whistling::yum::yum: The biggest problem is anything this old was never on computer records. Everything was manuals back then and nobody has taken the time to scan them into a digital media.
 

Cowboy

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Seems both of you are good at finding,buying,and then asking what the hell did I buy this rare antique for!:whistling::yum::yum: The biggest problem is anything this old was never on computer records. Everything was manuals back then and nobody has taken the time to scan them into a digital media.
HEY ! I resemble that remark :yum: . But as many truck forums as there are you would think someone has had a problem & posted pics before . But recon I could be wrong at that as well .

I learnt a few things today though , I cant post the right vid , dont bet on the chiefs & I got no clue WTF axle is in Dargo's truck :w00t2:
 

Trakternut

Active member
I wonder if a search using the VIN of the truck might tell you what brand of rear diff it has, find a parts diagram, and go to town!

I think You'll need to find yourself a very heavy slide hammer. With the relatively low miles this truck has on it, I'm betting that axle end is in there but good. It should slip out once you break it loose.
 
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