• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

How do you justify a luxury car price?

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I really really like the look of the E-Class Mercedes Benz. Spec'd out the way I want one, its running about $60 grand.

I also really like Volvo cars, have had at least 1 in the garage for each of the past 23 years of my life. Great cars, not always the best looking, but sound, capable, loaded with features and the interiors are always very nice. A loaded up Volvo S80 is pushing $48,000.

But lately I've been driving several VWs and now am shopping for a new car that I want to buy in the spring of 2012.

I do a comparison of the 2012 VW PASSAT and it comes up, fully loaded at roughly $32,000/$33,000. It is within 1" in overall length the same size as either the Volvo S80 or the E-Class Mercedes. The VW Passat has MORE INTERIOR ROOM, especially the rear seat leg room, than either the M-B or the Volvo. Trunk space, again the 3 are so close in volume that to say they are identical would not be a crime. Fuel economy, the Volvo lags behind, the M-B fits in the middle (with the diesel) and the VW's TDI is clearly the winner. Performance, well the Volvo has the #1 spot there. Volvo also offers an all wheel drive option that the MB does not (if I choose the diesel engine) nor does the VW.

Now based on looks, I have to say that I think the VW Passat is pretty bland. Vanilla, perhaps. The E-Class is edgy and good looking. The Volvo is, well, it looks like a Volvo sedan, 'nuff said.

Based on major features, all can be equipped with the same level of stuff, give or take a few minor issues/quirks/etc. Sure the Volvo has some interesting and attractive 2 tone premium leather options, the MB comes standard with VINYL seats but leather is an upgrade, and the 'SEL' package on the VW includes their leather seats. I think the Volvo's "Inscription" package has the nicest looking interior. The MB has the most refined interior, with lots of little luxury details to look at but that are not necessarily added function.

So how do you value luxury? Is it just looks?

I have a hard time justifying a car that costs TWICE the price of a so-called lower model/brand VW that provides nearly the same thing in most ways. I can justify the Volvo as it splits the difference in price but provides the feature of All-Wheel-Drive to set it apart from the other two. But the VW Passat looks like a real bargain while the MB, which was my real first choice (probably based on emotion) seems to be falling far from grace!

Anyone consider an Acura but then buy a Honda?

Or consider a Lexus but then spend their money on a Toyota?
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I suspect you are the resident "fancy pants" around here Bob. I'll be surprised if anyone else drives a Mercedes or some other euro-luxury car.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I suspect you are the resident "fancy pants" around here Bob. I'll be surprised if anyone else drives a Mercedes or some other euro-luxury car.

Oh, I know of members with MB cars here, and since I don't own one then I can't be the 'fancy pants' guy. I may be the 'short pants & Hawaiian shirt' guy, but the 'fancy pants' guy I am not :yum:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Oh, I know of members with MB cars here, and since I don't own one then I can't be the 'fancy pants' guy. I may be the 'short pants & Hawaiian shirt' guy, but the 'fancy pants' guy I am not :yum:

Actual "active" members - or their wives? :wink:
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
So how do you value luxury? Is it just looks?

And just a touch of ego and status. :yum:

I never really bought into the whole luxury car thing although my wife was an avid participant for many years. Eventually, she realized that a $60K automobile used to drive 6 miles into town and back was somewhat of a waste. I may be cheapskate but I always went the loaded, cheaper model route. On my drive to town it gets me there just as fast as a model costing twice as much. Now, if i was driving long distances on a regular basis, then it might be a different story. The extra luxury, comfort and refinement might be justifiable.
 

Big Dog

Large Member
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Frankly, I've never thought about buying a MB. I've only bought 2 new cars in my life and one was a CJ-5 and the other was a Dodge Dump truck and it was technically used. I really don't know what a luxury vehicle is ................. :wink:

Does a Monte Carlo count?
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Other than the Lexus, almost all have an absolutely horrible track record for reliability. What makes it even worse is accompanying the high frequency of repair rate is an extremely high severity (cost) to go along with the high frequency. I always thought I wanted a luxury car until I could get one. Then I had no real desire for one.

One of my best friends has a Volvo franchise along with several other franchises and he said he wouldn't sell me a new Volvo. Thankfully they are improving, but he said taking on Volvo has been the worst franchise decision he's ever made. Our MB dealer is an arrogant prick and even people who want one will drive to Indy or Louisville to buy one if they want one. Then, they pay through the nose to have those dealerships come bring them a loaner and fix the all too frequent breakdowns with MB. Another I thought was cool was Range Rover. Just like the other luxury vehicles, it's at the bottom of the pile when it comes to reliability.

When it comes to reliability, the highest rated 'luxury' car is an Acura. I have an Acura and I call it a Honda. Unlike a lot of people, I'm not offended knowing that an Acura is just a high end Honda. Tell Lexus people that their car is just a high end Toyota and you'd think you just said their baby is ugly! Hell, it's just a vehicle. I do not get attached to vehicles. They are a depreciating asset that fill a need. Since I don't really see Acura as being a true luxury car, I'd have to say the only luxury cars that are both reliable and really nice would be a high end Infinity or Lexus. Since I don't care for Toyota, it would have to be an Infinity for me.

I suppose if price is absolutely no issue, you can buy whatever you want and just keep it as long as it's under warranty. MB and BMW absolutely OWN the category for the worst reliable SUV except for VW's one entry that is a nice vehicle but has proven to be so unreliable that most companies won't issue a warranty on one if sold used. My attorney sister is here right now for my daughter's birthday and her totally loaded turbo Acura is parked right next to my oldest daughter's Kia Sorento and they look almost identical. The Kia has just as many options and actually feels every bit as tight and well built with a price tag that is $30k less. The Sorento and Acura are rated tops in the SUV class in Consumer Report's scoring as well as customer reported reliability surveys.

I suppose I've changed to the point where I can't justify the price of a luxury vehicle, so I don't have one. There must be more like me because the European automakers are dying on the vine right now. People just don't want to buy vehicles that will cost them thousands every year to keep them running after they are out of warranty. I suppose if I were to break down and buy a new luxury car, it would have to be an Infinity M37 based on ride, drive, handling, reliability and residual value. But, I can't justify it even to myself, so it won't happen.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Brent, one of the things I find very off putting about the M-B is that they sell for a high price but then offer the worst of the warranties. Volvo gives you 4 full years of "free" service/oil changes/wear and tear/etc, VW gives you 3 years of free coverage on everything other than the tires. MB gives you bupkus.

I'll admit to not looking at BMW, while the local dealer is our biggest cigar customer, his cars offer me nothing that I find attractive.

VW does do one thing that makes me nuts, they pretty much require you have the dealer do the service. While other brand parts fit, they don't necessarily work correctly when installed in a VW. That said, my general experience with VW has been pretty positive in terms of service/maintenance.

Volvo seems to be a bit easier to maintain than a VW in terms of aftermarket parts and I've had enough of them to know they are actually pretty darn reliable and generally last for many years. I tend to keep cars for years. Our current Volvo is 7 years old, my Touareg is a 2005 model. There is no plan to get rid of the 6 year old Touareg, but the 7 year old XC90 will likely be gone in 2012. I think I generally get my money's worth out of my vehicles.

Looks like the general consensus here on the forums is that the MB E350 BlueTec is pretty much a waste. I have to admit that is the conclusion I've been leaning toward.

I'm still liking the Volvo S80, largely because it offers the All Wheel Drive option. But while that will be great to have during the winter months, the fuel economy suffers with that option.

The Passat from VW, with the TDI engine and "all the options" actually seems like an amazing bargain. Its large, its inexpensive, it has great road manners, and has lots of various goodies. I just wish it was a bit better looking, but 'vanilla' is everyone favorite flavor.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
My DD is a 01 e430 sport. Paid 13k at 97k miles. I now have 251,000 miles on it.
Normal maintenance (tires, brakes, oil, spark plugs), had a lf front wheel bearing go out, replaced a belt tensioner, a water pump. That's about it.

I recorded 28.3 mpg on the way home Friday (280 miles).

I rode those 154,000 miles in an MB quality car. Quiet. Performance, both acceleration and braking. Safe. And cheaper than just about any new car by the mile. I have no idea why anybody would buy anything but a used Benz.

I see no value in buying any car new. Any make or model.
Well, if I had the cash, I would buy a new Lambo......
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
Site Supporter
It isn't the fact that you or anyone else can afford a really nice car or not. When you do, you become a target nowdays driving something new and expensive that says you have too much money.:unsure:

Get a nice new pickup or midsize car, they last as long nowdays and you look like everyone else and they have a host of neat gadgets to play with. Either than or get an old rusted out Mercedes and nobody will give you a second look.

But in my personally opinion, having something flashy isn't going to be that nice of a thing to have the wife and you drivng around when S**t hits the fan shortly.

JMHO...:flowers:
 

pirate_girl

legendary ⚓
GOLD Site Supporter
After the car I have right now finally pukes, I think I'm going to lease one.
Everyone keeps telling me it makes more sense to lease a brand new/ late model car or to take on a lease from someone else... and it won't be anything flashy, it'll be practical and small.
 

Alonzo Tubbs

Carpe Diem
SUPER Site Supporter
You haven't mentioned my favorite-Cadillac. I've never owned a luxury car until now but for the last 1 1/2 year I've been running around in a 2010 Cadillac Dts (Platinum Package) and I've never been in a car I like as much. Rides like you're floating on a cloud, warrenty is bullet proof and dealer service simply can't be beat. Milage is nothing to sing about but that much performance doesn't come free. $60,404.whatever. Go try one. You'll throw rocks at the rest. The only draw back is your girl freind will call you her pimp.
 

Lia

Banned
And just a touch of ego and status. :yum:

I never really bought into the whole luxury car thing although my wife was an avid participant for many years. Eventually, she realized that a $60K automobile used to drive 6 miles into town and back was somewhat of a waste. I may be cheapskate but I always went the loaded, cheaper model route. On my drive to town it gets me there just as fast as a model costing twice as much. Now, if i was driving long distances on a regular basis, then it might be a different story. The extra luxury, comfort and refinement might be justifiable.

I entirely agree. I would never buy a car for its 'status.' I want a car that will get me from A to B, that is economical to run (I do a lot of travelling), that is small enuff to park in those impossibly small supermarket parking spaces,has AC, will have room for a dog or two, and be able to contain, with the hatchback totally closed, a plank of wood, or a small dresser, whatever...

One car, obviously, isn't enuff, because when one is in for a service, or has a problem, one still has to get around. If I need something bigger, then I take one of my Uncle's 4 wheel drives, or his Jeep. But, I really don't see the point in shelling out for a gas guzzler, or something that I can't park on a postage stamp. I try not to keep a car longer than three years, again for obvious reasons, but apart from those criteria, a car, to me, is a non issue. I just need to get in it and drive...

So long as it comes with AC and the ability to cruise on the steep, why bother with something that costs as much as a small holiday home?
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
My choice for luxury is my suburban. It can haul large items when needed and gets around in the snow rather well. Good ground clearance and a decent ride. Can load up the dogs and still have plenty of room. Seating for 8 people or fold down the seats and have plenty of room to stretch out for a snooze or other things.:whistling:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Get a nice new pickup or midsize car...

You haven't mentioned my favorite-Cadillac... Milage is nothing to sing about...

We are trying to downsize from a 7 passenger SUV to a sedan. The sedans I'm looking at are all what I would consider 'mid-size' sedans. Economy, engine life, maintenance are all part of the factoring process.

The VW gets 32/40mpg in City/Hwy (diesel)
The Volvo gets 19/27mpg (gas)
The MB gets 22/33mpg (diesel)

It should be noted that in EPA testing, the actual fuel economy of a diesel engine is typically understated while the actual fuel economy of a gas engine is often overstated. So with economy as a key, the VW is the clear winner. Its cheapest to buy, and cheapest to drive. Diesel engines also last longer than gas engines, so it likely would be operating longer than the Volvo.
  • In terms of back seat leg room, the VW is also the winner.
  • All 3 are so close in the front seat dimensions as to be in a tie.
  • For trunk space all three brands are a tie.
  • For overall size, all 3 brands are within 1" of each other in length, height, width so again that is a tie. These cars are the SAME SIZE.
  • All 3 would get leather interiors, nice radios, sunroofs, self dimming mirrors, bluetooth, etc.
  • The VW would get the Navigation system because that comes as part of the premium package, the other 2 brands do not include the Nav system in their prices.
VW includes 36,000 miles maintenance
Volvo includes 46,000 miles maintenance
MB includes ZERO miles maintenance

VW = $33,000
MB = $60,000
Volvo = $45,000 or $48,000 (front WD or AWD)

Honestly the VW is looking a lot better. I have to say the MB is out of the running if logic is used. The middle of the pack Volvo may be hard to justify but the All Wheel Drive option is a nice feature in the snow, the trade off is it has a gasoline engine instead of diesel.
 

Attachments

  • Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.05.22 AM.png
    Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.05.22 AM.png
    182.9 KB · Views: 133
  • Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.05.42 AM.png
    Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.05.42 AM.png
    243.4 KB · Views: 132
  • Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.06.32 AM.png
    Screen shot 2011-07-31 at 7.06.32 AM.png
    212.8 KB · Views: 131

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Bob, I'll admit that I do have a soft spot for VW since I owned several dozen Bugs back in the day. I even tried to get my daughter to consider one of them like you own, but she wanted an SUV and based on the actuarial tables I have and online reading, the VW SUV was out. I'm glad to hear that you've had good service out of Volvo vehicles. Statistically, that is not the norm though. It's pretty bad when the dealer I know who wouldn't sell me one is also a Chrysler dealer. :doh: As a whole, Chrysler is at the bottom of the list on reliable manufacturers with only GM's Cadillac division below them. Most aftermarket warranty companies wouldn't touch a Cadillac with a ten foot pole. With only a couple of exceptions, they are some of the least reliable vehicles made today. I would assume that is why nobody had mentioned them. They haven't even started to turn their ship towards reliability and, as we all know, once you start to turn that ship it takes many years to get turned.

Since I do have all the facts and figures, I end up giving friends and relatives honest answers based on facts as to whether they ought to buy a service contract with their car. On many, it's a total waste of money. On others, you'd be foolish not to buy one. On European vehicles, I'd say the VW Jetta, Passat and Golf would be about the only exceptions. There are some exceptions and you get an occasional person with one who hasn't had problems, but it's rare. Sort of like the guy still driving his Yugo that has never broken down wondering why people think poorly of them. I look at pure statistics and facts and base my opinions on actual breakdowns, concentrating on the frequency and how expensive the repairs are. Heck, drive a loaded up Hyundai Genesis just for the heck of it. It rides better, handles better and feels better made than any MB or BMW I've ever been in at less than half the price with a 10 year warranty.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have just over 41K on my 2010 Jetta with zero problems. Warranty has expired. Are you suggesting it would be wise to buy an extended warranty? I've never looked into those things. How do they actually work if you don't buy it from the manufacturer? What do they cost? Which firms are reputable? Etc etc etc. . .
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
No, the Jetta is a model from VW that I would not suggest a service contract. Based on stats, your VW SUV would have been one where I would have highly recommended one. On BMW and most MB, one is not even available just like Land Rover, Jags, and Cadillacs.
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
I don't have to justify anything . I worked hard all my life to get to this point If I want it bad enough than I buy it . If not, than I pass . There is not too many cars that get me excited any more .I guess that is because I have owned most of them at one time or another . AS long as I get there in relative comfort and one piece , I am happy
Right now my old Ford 4x4 F250 "King Ranch " is hard to beat for comfort and I can move 16,000 pounds to boot . Try that in a MB or Volvo sedan:yum::smile: .
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Ford does make a nice 3/4 ton pickup truck. Hard to argue that one. Unless it is a certain diesel engine....Still like mine though...

We have 3 Chryslers in the pack, and they have served us very well indeed. No complaints from me, anyway. The 99 Durango, the "winter" kid hauler, has 150K with no issues, and no recalls either. It predates the rack and pinion system, that cost them many millions of $ and reputation. Make it too cheap, and it will cost in the end.

You have to admit, in the styling department, they have been a trend setter as well. All the other U.S. and forein makers have emulated what they have done, with less than success most times IMHO. The original is most times still the best....:whistling:

I like the German VW as well though, as I like German things. Heck I married a German national.....:wink::biggrin:

Regards, Kirk



Regards, Kirk
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bob, Early in this thread, you mentioned Vinyl for the MB. It's not really vinyl but a good product called MB Tex. I thought MB actually dropped its use (at least in seating surfaces) in the late 90's.

What I never liked about the MB's is that while under warranty, the regular, scheduled (required?) maintenance seemed to average about $100 per month.

Mrs. Zoom likes her Audi A6 Quattros but when it comes time to replace, I think we're going to be backing off the more luxury brands and move into something that isn't as finicky. For an AWD sedan, I'm going to give the Suburu Legacy a close look. Fully loaded, they're still under $30K. I know a few people that have them and all say they're bulletproof.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I've looked at the Subaru Legacy and its a very nice car but not quite as nice as I'd like to have. Its got most of the features but many of the little details are lacking when compared to the VW. And the VW lacks some of the little details compared to the Volvo and MB. So the question is how much am I willing to give up? I think I'd give up AWD that is needed a few days a year and keep some of the niceties that will be used every day. Its just my take on things. But little stuff like auto-window up/down with a simple 1 push of the button that is lacking on the Subaru. They have that feature only on the drivers window, but not all the windows. At some point you end up with a car that you may "put up with" but not really "like" and if you drive a lot then I think it makes sense to enjoy the car you drive.

I made some trade offs to get the Jetta, then took it to a custom shop to have things like the self-dimming rear view mirror installed as well as built in "home-link" garage door openers, etc etc. Those are standard on most near-luxury and luxury cars but not on the US version of the Jetta TDI. So I knew I could add them and didn't worry much about it. But other features can't be easily added to a vehicle so if enough of those are omitted then it sort of rules out the car as a possible choice. JMO
 
Top