• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Why is Diesel 80 to 90-cents/Gal. higher than Unleaded Gas?

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Just double checked. VW and Audi void the warranty on their TDI engines if the user uses more than 5% Bio-Diesel.

Several states mandate 5% Bio.

I wonder what VW and Audi will do if a state mandates more than 5% Bio blended diesel.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
Bio is also heavily used in heating oil anymore. The reduced emissions and longer intervals between cleanings make it very attractive as a heat fuel. It is not recommended beyond B10 if the tank is outside due to gelling issues. Quality control has also improved dramatically in the last 3 years for blended fuels.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Also some believe the industry is trying to justifie the pipeline from the canadian oil sands. I predict a spike in prices over the delay of this important project. Untill recently there were much lower prices in the area the pipeline was to be built, because of excess supplies. Now it going to go the other way. ULSD is the road version, and it is about $1 per gallon higher than off road fuel. It is JUNK and will destroy the injector pumps on the older engines over time. It has very little lubrisity or lubrication value in it. If we are the only ones using USLD them we are fools, hamstinging our transpotation infrustructure and driving up prices and the cost of diong business. The EPA is quite effectively regulating the diesel engine out of existance. 2% soy diesel added gets the lub back in USLD.

Biodiesel plants in my area were closed two years ago. Now they are operational and nearing capacity.. I'll have to enquire with the CEO of R.E.G. why that is....

Kirk

Easy to predict Kirk as it alredy has happened. Oklahoma refineries are starving for crude. While the pipeline itself would not help the current situation it 's delay has cast a bit of a shadow over the future.

It's like lifting the ban on Offshore drilling. It did nothing to the immedeate supply lines but OPEC dropped it's prices as soon as the ban lapsed. As I recall, gasoline went down below $2 bucks for a while.
As for the restart of Biodiesel, the tax credits helped but frankly the market demands more capacity. It ihas been sitting there idle all over the midwest. At $4.00 a gallon, perherhaps there is enough incentives to build a biodiesel program.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Oil companies use the refinery shortage to artifically creat shortages to run up the price. A couple of years ago there was to be built a new refinery on the east coaste. It was nixed by the petrolium indurstry here, as they had a law passed years ago the states the ownership must be by a majority US citizens. It had too much forein ownership and was not built. We are being strangled by the US oil companies so they can manipulate supplies and consequently prices. They are using the EPA as an ally, as they would hate any new refiners in the newly green national picture....How convenient. You cann't say they are stupid, but a case can easily be made that they are GREEDY.:hammer:

Big Pharma discovered these tactics as well, but not sure who was first...

Regards, Kirk
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Just double checked. VW and Audi void the warranty on their TDI engines if the user uses more than 5% Bio-Diesel.

Several states mandate 5% Bio.

I wonder what VW and Audi will do if a state mandates more than 5% Bio blended diesel.

Turbo Direct injection should not pose a problem with Biodiesel. I wonder what the issues are.

I have run both my Cummins and my Mercedes engines on pure Biodiesel with no ill effects. Actually I got better milage and quiter smoother running.

IOWA had Biodiesel all over the state for a while. Made many trips to Minneapolis from St Louis in the Benz. Loved the bio diesel.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Turbo Direct injection should not pose a problem with Biodiesel. I wonder what the issues are.

The engines run fine, the problem is meeting the EPA mandates. As the engines get larger they require urea injection and an after-burner that is in the exhaust. The Bio gums up and clogs the after burner in the exhaust system. In the smaller cars they can do without the urea, but they still use the burner in the exhaust system.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
The engines run fine, the problem is meeting the EPA mandates. That requires urea injection and an after-burner that is in the exhaust. The Bio gums up and clogs the after burner in the exhaust system.

Interesting. I experienced no issues with that at all.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,

For running "red" off road in an over the road vehical...

Kirk

I know it's wrong, and somebody is robbing somebody, but why pay more for fuel that is dyed to clearly mark it has not been taxed for road use? In your situation where you would buy quite a bit more than 750 to 1000 gallons at a time they may cut you a break (if you lived around here), but it's cost more for #2 off road than taxed, non-dyed, #2 diesel here for years.

When I got my first tank,not all that long ago in reality, #2 off road was about $0.59 a gallon. I have plenty of receipts from where I paid right around $200 to fill my 550 gallon tank. Granted, my pickup in the tank is a couple inches above the bottom to try not pick up the crud that drops to the bottom, but it was pretty well always over 500 gallons anyway.

I may be wrong, but in my eyes, it's the distributor who is the crook in this situation. I think the fuel tax in my state is $0.45 a gallon. The last time I called the distributor, it was $0.18 less per gallon for me to buy taxed, non-dyed diesel and it has been that way for several years now. Something is very wrong with that picture!

Oh, FWIW, we have a female DOT cop who makes it her mission in life pulling over pickups, especially if they have a farm plate, and giving them the giant Q-tip treatment to check for dyed diesel. She has to be one of the state's most profitable employees. Every time our local 4H has some horse show, she nails several dozen people. Heck, one of my relatives own a reasonably large wrecker service and they make it a standard practice to send 2 or 3 wreckers out to the 4H for every horse show. She impounds the truck and won't let them go until the tank has been drained (and I don't think they get their fuel back), flushed, all lines flushed and all filters changed and one of her minions gives it a thorough checking out. It's amazing she still catches that many people when she's been well known for probably 10 years or more. If she can't get you on illegal fuel, she whips out her portable scales and weighs each axle at the horse shows too. She'll put you through 2 hours of hell trying to get you on something and is pissed as hell if she can't. I got her treatment once a few years ago going to the couple hundred acres I have about 20 miles from me. She was rude as hell and pissed even more when she couldn't find anything to give me a citation for.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Interesting. I experienced no issues with that at all.

LOL, I think my old '96 Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins would darn near run on crude oil! It was not picky in the least. Yeah, yeah, I'm still kicking myself for selling that truck. It always sat inside, was a 1 owner when I bought it, and I made a beast out of it so it was fun too. :brows: Here is a picture of it when it was 12 years old.
 

Attachments

  • Dodge.jpg
    Dodge.jpg
    60.7 KB · Views: 183

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm stillrunning my '95 dually one ton. 250K miles.
Rode hard and put away wet most of it's life.

Likely will rust away before the Cummins goes.

Only issues with the engine was a fuel regulator valve.
Only real issues with the truck are the front balljoints.

If you keep the oil changed at 3,000 miles, do all the filters and keep the fuel clean and fresh, damm diesel will run forever.

I'll keep her for a whole yet as nothing new has my eye.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,,
Yes there is something wrong in your area Iowa is at 55 cents on road tax, and the off road is nearly always 55 cents cheaper than the on road. Sounds to me like some one is gouging the local big users, i.e. Farmers ( his own subsity from ethanol?) Surely you have some one who isn't a crook around some where who has off road?

Kirk
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place.

I know many of you like bio diesel and so do I. A 2% blend is enough to make quite a difference to USLD.

I am membeer of the farmers coop that started REG. For the last several years it has been feared locally the coop would maybe fail if REG did. So this positive tone I am hearing from you guys is a good sign. I hope you could consider, if you are in favor, to get ahold of your cogress people, and let them know you support it:clap:, if not that is OK as well.

quality control of this product as well as ethanol is much better in the states who have had years of experiance with these fuel blends. I hope those of you who suffer from poor blenders eventually are rewarded for your patience, while they are trying to get it right. This is a local issue though.

Kirk
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
Ok guys i work in the industry you are paying more for 2 reasons first it's because they can refined product prices ae set by the refinerys not the oil suppliers yes the price of oil impacts the price of the refined product but because the refined products are comoditys they can be traded and spot price is what is driving the price also the fedral government wants you to comute with a gas motor as the emissions and and economy standrads are much higher in other countrys diesel is a comercial fuel and to prevent inflation there are caps on the prices you can charge for it which makes diesel the prefered fuel in smaller countrys
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
...which makes diesel the prefered fuel in smaller countrys

Um, you mean in most of the rest of the civilized world? If we are almost the only country where you cannot get diesel versions of what is best sellers in other countries for certain products, we are in the dark ages.

Yeah, to some people diesel smells bad. However, it's emissions won't kill you like that of even a small gas engine. I have 5 generations of underground coal miners in my family. You use a gasoline engine underground and you kill everyone. For decades they ran diesel powered equipment underground with no restrictions and they didn't drop like flies. Also, how many gasoline powered vehicles do we use in the military in comparison to diesel? There are a vast number of ways that diesel is superior to gasoline. Our government knows that yet forces us to drive gasoline/garbage mixture engines. There is something very, very wrong with this issue and it's not all to do with pollution bullshit. We have the technology and ability to produce diesel out of vast coal reserves in our very own country but we don't do so. I can't believe at the current price of diesel that it wouldn't be getting close to being cost effective. Hell, Hitler did it when we cut off their fuel supply lines. Most of their stuff was diesel powered anyway, so that embargo really worked, not.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,,
Yes there is something wrong in your area Iowa is at 55 cents on road tax, and the off road is nearly always 55 cents cheaper than the on road. Sounds to me like some one is gouging the local big users, i.e. Farmers ( his own subsity from ethanol?) Surely you have some one who isn't a crook around some where who has off road?

Kirk

No, really. Some of the large farmers, several thousand acre farms, get it for less than taxed, non-dyed diesel, but otherwise we just get the shaft. But, hey, we're together on biodiesel. :flowers:
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place. . .
Kirk that is because Bio-Diesel Blends actually makes economic sense. Its more efficient than regular diesel, it can be made from waste or farm product, its economical to operate, etc.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
After the ethanol thread this one seems like a dream. The story here biodiesel is the "forgotten" fuel, as the tax breaks went away, and it was a long time before there were put back in place.

I know many of you like bio diesel and so do I. A 2% blend is enough to make quite a difference to USLD.

I am membeer of the farmers coop that started REG. For the last several years it has been feared locally the coop would maybe fail if REG did. So this positive tone I am hearing from you guys is a good sign. I hope you could consider, if you are in favor, to get ahold of your cogress people, and let them know you support it:clap:, if not that is OK as well.

quality control of this product as well as ethanol is much better in the states who have had years of experiance with these fuel blends. I hope those of you who suffer from poor blenders eventually are rewarded for your patience, while they are trying to get it right. This is a local issue though.

Kirk

I believe I brought this up in the Ethanol Thread. Several times.


Diesel was the wa to go backin the late 80's. But the ag industry was looking for bigger profits and more reasons to grow, more profitable dent Corn.
It has been a while but, I believe we get more bushels out of Corn than any other grain. Correct me if I am wrong here.

That means , in todays market, Some $200 more per acre.
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
That is about right franc,

And corn is also the highest yeilding crop on a per acre basis as was stated. South America will be no1 in soybean production soon if not already. They do better down there than corn does, for some reason. Soybeans are more heavily used in our food products excluding livestock feed than corn is, as a percentage. We export a vary large portion of soy as well, mostly to China....

Regards, Kirk
 

Av8r3400

Gone Flyin'
I have a friend who brews his own (waste fryer oil) bio diesel. He runs several TDi VWs in his business. None of them have less than 500k on the original motors. $.02 per mile fuel cost. He runs the bio in his home furnace, and all of his other equipment. In the bitter cold, he cuts it with a touch of jet fuel.

Bio diesel and compression ignition engines in general are our way our of the fuel issues this country suffers. For whatever reason the government does not want the problem solved.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Bio diesel and compression ignition engines in general are our way our of the fuel issues this country suffers. For whatever reason the government does not want the problem solved.

100% Agreed :clap:
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
A quite satifactory bio diesel can be made on the farm. The extruder is chinese and has a two cylinder lister type diesel engine. It sqeezes the oil from the soybean. the soy meal is sold as live stock feed, and the oil is filtered and unleaded gasoline is added in a 5 to one ration to thin it down some, and prevents waxing in the system. In the winter you add a bit more unleaded to prevent gellups. Interesting.....Though I have not considered it, yet

Regards, Kirk
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
I would hope they restart the new plant below Williamsport,Pa. if the price stays up. Local bean crops took a beating with the floods and very wet fall we have had. Lots of corn and beans still in fields that are too wet to get in.
 
Top