Where you gonna go, who you gonna call

check this out, good ole circuit city just lost me as a customer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/ap_on_bi_ge/circuit_city_layoffs_16

[FONT=&quot]Danny, I won’t go into details but here in OZ we have new industrial relation laws. The article you posted is indicative of what is going on here now in allsorts of industry. We are going to see an era here of very low paid worker this county has not seen for 50 years. It’s the legacy of far right politics. SCREW THE WORKER seem to be the direction we are heading. After all this does not matter plebs are plentiful. [/FONT]

Why, for laying of 8% of their workforce? This is nothing new in the business world.

Guys, it is sad anyway you look at it. And with this low paid worker you are going to see them able to afford the things they were laid off about. Heres my take, lay off the big stuffed shirts that make 6 figures or cut their pay to a level more in tune with their ability to make decisions.....

I still say they are the over paid, the upper level scum that does this to workers.

Another bet, best buy will be doing real well before long!


Gator, it is not the 8 %, it is the slap in the face of hey you can have your job back, you are going to make less, work more, and we the scum stuffed shirts are going to have nice big paychecks that dont get screwed with. I would tell them, I am worth more than what they offer and tell them good bye!...............and yeah I am worth more!

Y 4 of dirty mexicali?

Gatorboy said:

Why, for laying of 8% of their workforce? This is nothing new in the business world.

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Perhaps it’s for lying of outrageously sorry ass around them?

Imagine how horrible that would be if it happened to you. Having to re-compete for your job at a lower wage. I’m sure they have very understanding creditors!

Gatorboy said:

Why, for laying of 8% of their workforce? This is nothing new in the business world.

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I have to agree. Why is it always the corporations fault? Sales are way down, they can't afford the overhead. I would be willing to bet that some upper management has already been let go. We just don't read about that, that not good news. Laying the workforce does make news.

Cliff

This strikes me a bunch of people who are crying foul about the layoffs, but many people have also suggested that GM and FORD should do something similar. The problem is GM & FORD are stuck under decades old contracts with labor unions that have them economically hobbled so that they start out at an economic disadvantage of something like $1000 per car based on legacy pension and legacy healthcare costs that are excessive compared to new contracts.

So while people say that to survive GM & FORD need to change the rules, it seems that if Circuit City trys to change the rules, it gets bad press???

Heck, if Circuit City cannot compete with Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sears Appliance, Frys, and others, then it will go out of business. Instead of affecting just 8% of its workforce, closing down would affect 100%! But hey, going out of business would be better "public relations" than laying off 8% of its workforce and re-hiring (some of the same) people at a lower wage. What the hell am I missing? Let's just all be left with 1 big retailer who controls everything we buy, limits our choices, and imports everything from China.

Buried deep in the article:

I seriously doubt that upper mgt has taken any hit, just looking for a way to pad the pockets of themselves and make the bottom line look better.

I am placing a 300.00 order with someone else today..........they dont get my business.

What happens when a company that cares about its workforce comes around and they have to close due to slower sales.............I do hope that the investors FIRE the stuffed shirts. After all, what do they REALLY do to bring in sales.............most of them dont know what they sell much less how to use it.

Sorry, I dont buy it! If mgt were to be told, heres your NEW wage, they would have a press conference so fast it would not be funny. But NOPE they just lower the boom on those that ACTUALLY do sales, know the product, and provide a service to the CUSTOMER.........well what they will have left. I wont be one of them!

ddrane2115 said:

I seriously doubt that upper mgt has taken any hit, just looking for a way to pad the pockets of themselves and make the bottom line look better.

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Danny, do you have any proof of this? I've seen dozens and dozens of companies that have trimmed managers FIRST and then gone after the rank and file hourly workers. In fact, cutting salaried employees is, based on most state labor laws, much easier. It just doesn't make for a good newspaper article.

I don't see how this could "pad the pockets" as you suggest. However, the action is clearly intended to "make the bottom like look better."

Heck, they are LOSING MONEY, if they don't do something to "make the bottom like look better" then every employee will be out of jobs! The whole point of what they are doing is to try to save the company. What suggestions do you have to do that without trimming costs that are out of line with the industry? And be serious, because I'm sure their managers are already paid in line with industry standards. There are probably a few top officials who make outstanding livings, but I'd also be that if you totally eliminated their pay, it would not equal the cost savings they need to save the company.

JMO

B_Skurka said:

This strikes me a bunch of people who are crying foul about the layoffs, but many people have also suggested that GM and FORD should do something similar. The problem is GM & FORD are stuck under decades old contracts with labor unions that have them economically hobbled so that they start out at an economic disadvantage of something like $1000 per car based on legacy pension and legacy healthcare costs that are excessive compared to new contracts.

So while people say that to survive GM & FORD need to change the rules, it seems that if Circuit City trys to change the rules, it gets bad press???

Heck, if Circuit City cannot compete with Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sears Appliance, Frys, and others, then it will go out of business. Instead of affecting just 8% of its workforce, closing down would affect 100%! But hey, going out of business would be better "public relations" than laying off 8% of its workforce and re-hiring (some of the same) people at a lower wage. What the hell am I missing? Let's just all be left with 1 big retailer who controls everything we buy, limits our choices, and imports everything from China.


Buried deep in the article:

Circuit City, the nation's No. 2 consumer electronics retailer behind Best Buy Co. Inc., says the workers being laid off were earning "well above the market-based salary range for their role." They will be replaced with employees who will be paid at the current market range, the company said in a news release.

"We haven't done something called (a) wage management initiative before," said company spokesman Jim Babb. "All companies at one time or another need to go through and make sure their cost structure works with market conditions."

Circuit City lost money in its most recent quarter and on Wednesday lowered its 2007 revenue guidance for the second time.
​

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NO where does it say those stuff shirts are taking a hit.....just those that work for a living.

Bob, you have always been good to your employees best we can tell. If you did not, you would not have good employees.

CC is trying to scam these guys into taking less money for more work. I would tell them, NO THANKS, pay me my layoff money for the whole time I can get it. I know CC "fixed" that by offering jobs back..........that sucks, and any first year law student can beat that.

When the public realizes that the service at CC is in the toilet, they will go elsewhere, and then the SS can wonder how they are going to get the "big bucks pay" that is (not) gag a maggot, above market value. Sorry but those in mgt dont get any sympathy from me, nor to they get any of my business, Best Buy will though, and those that do the internet sales will.

As for company losses.............hey SS, you make WELL over YOUR market value...........take a hit on that, help the company out..........yeah right! To me they are still bottom feeders that deserve to be "FIRED" by the stock holders

B_Skurka said:

Danny, do you have any proof of this? I've seen dozens and dozens of companies that have trimmed managers FIRST and then gone after the rank and file hourly workers. In fact, cutting salaried employees is, based on most state labor laws, much easier. It just doesn't make for a good newspaper article.

I don't see how this could "pad the pockets" as you suggest. However, the action is clearly intended to "make the bottom like look better."

Heck, they are LOSING MONEY, if they don't do something to "make the bottom like look better" then every employee will be out of jobs! The whole point of what they are doing is to try to save the company. What suggestions do you have to do that without trimming costs that are out of line with the industry? And be serious, because I'm sure their managers are already paid in line with industry standards. There are probably a few top officials who make outstanding livings, but I'd also be that if you totally eliminated their pay, it would not equal the cost savings they need to save the company.

JMO

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Bob, sorry but until I see a new article that the mgt has been told here is your new job, and your new pay, and take it or leave it..............it sucks. I dont care who I work for, I have a price, dont meet the price, see ya. when I get done with my certs I am working on now, I EXPECT at least 60K, and yes that is with all insurance paid, maybe company vehicle and yes I expect to have some authority over what or how things are done. I will also always take care of those in my charge.

ddrane2115 said:

Bob, sorry but until I see a new article that the mgt has been told here is your new job, and your new pay, and take it or leave it..............it sucks. I dont care who I work for, I have a price, dont meet the price, see ya. when I get done with my certs I am working on now, I EXPECT at least 60K, and yes that is with all insurance paid, maybe company vehicle and yes I expect to have some authority over what or how things are done. I will also always take care of those in my charge.

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When I was in the workforce, you had to earn your place and that was done with effort, not certificates. You got paid for your abilities, not for your certificates, you got pay advancements based on your abilities, you got pay raises based on your performance, not your certificates or longevity with the company. With your attitude, I know that I wouldn't hire you. Where I come from employees that make demands only get fired. Employees that perform get rewarded with advancement and pay increases.
PS...... if you "EXPECT at least 60K", I suggest that you work on your writing and spelling skills...

Junkman said:

Employees that perform get rewarded with advancement and pay increases.

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The articles I've read on the Cicruit City issues include comments that say that exact thing is what's getting them fired.

They worked hard, received their due advancements and pay increases and now find they've done so well (for themselves as well as the company), they've been chopped due to their compensation.

A company gives you a raise, then fires you because of your salary... that just doesn't seem right.

bczoom said:

A company gives you a raise, then fires you because of your salary... that just doesn't seem right.

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One mistake that many employees & employers make is to give - or expect to get - annual raises. Doing this rewards people for just showing up every day, for year after year. Assuming the profits do not go up on future sales, this will lead to ever dropping profits! The reality with retail goods is that profit margins are actually going down every year, not going up.

Combine reduced gross profit margins with higher labor costs and ultimately labor has to be reduced. Fewer sales people or lower paid sales people, either way works. Another way is to automate sales (which is why you now see "self-checkout" lanes at many supermarkets), or move sales to the internet (which is why you now see "ordering kiosks" inside retail stores).

If you want customer service, you have to pay for it. Most people are not willing to do that, which is why the grand old department stores like Marshall-Fields are gone and why low-service stores like Best-Buy thrive.

B_Skurka said:

One mistake that many employees & employers make is to give - or expect to get - annual raises. Doing this rewards people for just showing up every day, for year after year.

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Every company I know doesn't provide raises based on showing up every day. They're based on performance. Yea, the people that show up daily may get an occasional cost-of-living raise but it appears that CC is parting with their higher salary sales personnel. In this case, they're most likely the "cream of the crop" as their outstanding performance justified their salary adjustments. I just dug around and found THIS article which pretty much concurs they're getting rid of their best people. It also goes on to say the CEO got $8.52 million.

I'm going to watch this one and I'll bet this initiative by CC comes back and bites them in the butt. I just wish I/we had more details on the salaries of those being removed and their expected gain. I do recall they dropped all their sales staff's commissions a few years ago which I'm sure hurt those employees incomes. This also hurt morale and CC's sales dropped as a result.

Having a new, rookie squad of employees is going to make them more like their cheap competitors (e.g. Wal-Mart). If I don't need any help or advise, I may hit a discount store but when dropping thousands on electronics components, I would prefer to discuss with someone who knows their stuff.

A "shared pain" cost reduction method may have been a safer approach. If everyone took a small % salary decrease, it wouldn't have been such a jolt for company morale as well as consumer objection.

First, I don't know why the CEO's salary is relevant. Second, if it is relevant, then is he underpaid, overpaid or paid relative to other CEO's of similar size companies? Was he brought in to fix the profitability problem, if so, he might be worth twice what he is getting. It might take that type of guy to save this company from ultimate bankruptcy and save the other 92% of the jobs that are not affected.

Second, while Circuit City may be getting rid of their "cream of the crop" employees, does that mean they are doing the wrong thing? If the cream of the crop is overpaid, then getting rid of them is the right thing. What is the relative difference between a high performing salesperson and their average performer? And then after you know that, then what is the difference in pay between the top and the average? If the performance differential doesn't warrent the pay differential, then you need to get rid of the top performers because they are actually dragging down the company. It seems like an unusual thing to say, but it is not unrealistic.

Look at sporting teams that have salary caps. One high performing player can cost more than 2 or 3 very good players, and if the team pays that one high performer, it may have to cut 2 or 3 others who are really the backbone of the team. So the better choice is to get rid of the one top guy and build your team around solid performers who don't destroy your budget.

Trimming 8% to save the other 92% seems reasonable. Maybe not popular with that 8%, but reasonable overall.

Further, people are making some wild assumptions about company morale. Maybe the other 92% are upset that this 8% is over-compensated and it will raise morale to get rid of them! Why 'share the pain' with 100% if there is no need, that would demoralize all the workers. Further, I don't think 95% of the public will ever read about this business decision, so from the public standpoint only a small group of people MAY be upset about it (like Danny) but some of us will simply not care about it and will continue to shop at Circut City. Net effect is probably way over-stated.

Bob, you dont understand the "abilities" that come with my education. Those with my certs keep the network going, are available 24/7/365 and believe it or not, 60K is STARTING. I know plenty of people with what I have, and a couple years in the saddle who make over 100K, and yes they get this because they EARN it. They keep the lights on so to say. If your computer network at your company goes down, you dont work, your employees dont work, and in many cases this is thousands of dollars a minute! Nothing wrong with my spelling and writing either. I don't use a word processor and then post here, and in the working world I will be in.......who cares......if the network is working, all is good.
Yes, I will ask for and get this pay, and I probably would not work in your industry. I dont know who does your computer work, but most will bill me out at 150 to 200 dollars an hour.

My attitude is required to get this, dont offer it and I can always go to the next place looking for my talents and skills. I want to do higher level networking.............WAN LAN configurations and to be responsible for the installation, implementation, trouble shooting, and maintenance of these, someone without my knowledge can not do this.

As for the 8.5 million stated by someone as the CEO salary..........if they are going broke, seems like he AINT doin his worth.............fire him! Let those that CREATE sales, make customers happy, and keep them coming IN the stores stick around. I can tell you if I was the employer paying that kind of money we best be blowing some big numbers..........or your can is gone!

As for morale, if you dont like what you are doing, or dont like the things the company is doing, LEAVE IT! (CC employees did not get this chance, they got fired) I did, 6 weeks ago I gave my 2 weeks notice, they asked me to stay 3 more, I did. I left to finish these certs, to get a better career, more money, more challenge, more thought process, less manual labor, more fun! They have chosen at this time to let other techs do what I did, untrained techs in the computer world. Think of it this way.

IF I wanted to work for myself, I could go to 15 of my accounts right now, ask for their account and get it, based solely on my past work, their need for quality tech work, and the fact that some of them are DOWN, not working at all if the computer fails. I don't want to work for myself.

Do you put a new guy out on a route with no training. He wont know the people he is in contact with, wont know the particulars of each stop.......would you do this to your clients? My guess is that there is someone right behind you waiting to sell the same products you do, my guess is also they would pay more to the person or company that is professional, clean, efficeint, polite, and most of all KNOWLEDGABLE about the product and the customers desires. I have worked in the stores you provide product too...........I know you have some competition waiting for you to mess up.

This is exactly what CC has done. Guy buys a new plazma, but the dude can not tell him how to even hook up the thing..........I doubt that is going to result in a sale, and I also would bet that the 8.5 mill dud has no clue

bczoom said:

The articles I've read on the Cicruit City issues include comments that say that exact thing is what's getting them fired.

They worked hard, received their due advancements and pay increases and now find they've done so well (for themselves as well as the company), they've been chopped due to their compensation.

A company gives you a raise, then fires you because of your salary... that just doesn't seem right.

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AMEN!

Funny thing is too, I dont know what they will be offered, but some Mcd's in my town are offering up to 10.00 an hour for taking your drive thru order...........Take the crap from CC or have junior yelling while you are trying to get an order.............CC, well you can take your job and shove it

Junkman said:

When I was in the workforce, you had to earn your place and that was done with effort, not certificates. You got paid for your abilities, not for your certificates, you got pay advancements based on your abilities, you got pay raises based on your performance, not your certificates or longevity with the company. With your attitude, I know that I wouldn't hire you. Where I come from employees that make demands only get fired. Employees that perform get rewarded with advancement and pay increases.
PS...... if you "EXPECT at least 60K", I suggest that you work on your writing and spelling skills...

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YOu dont get IN my industry without these certs, period! paying a cheap salary in my industry to make more, costs you big time. when a customer is paying 150 to 200 an hour for support, you better know exactly what you are doing. The effort is getting the certs to start with, as stated above, this does not happen without them. Where I come from employees or new hires negotiate a starting salary, and there are informal guidelines. Want my skills..pay the price. Don't want to pay the salary, fine the competition will, and there are no "no competes" either. I worked in an industry for 18 years, factory, production, got me put on disability........

Don't know what industry you are from, but my bet is their computer guy if he is worth anything, or if he is from a solution provider is billing out at over 100 at least.

We have one gal from class, 2 basic certs, she is getting offers over 17.00 an hour now...........she has no computer experience other than school. In a year there (if she accepts it) she will be at over 60K.........apprentice network engineer! She may turn it down for a better starting pay job, with more chance for advancement. oh, they dont pay me for my writing skills, they pay me for my networking skills.

Sorry we disagree on this, but them is the facts.

Junkman said:

When I was in the workforce, you had to earn your place and that was done with effort....................Where I come from employees that make demands only get fired. Employees that perform get rewarded with advancement and pay increases.
PS...... if you "EXPECT at least 60K", I suggest that you work on your writing and spelling skills...

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I am sure CC did lay off or cut back wages of upper managment. Typically in a business that is first. In my own company three years ago when we were hit with the new construction market slump we layed off management and owners took a large cut. I being the majority owner took the biggest hit. In fact I have employees now that make more than me. The fact that some people here won't buy now from CC is exactly why management tries to keep these layoffs out of the papers. When upper management is cut you don't hear of it, but when employees are cut then it hits the papers. The media eats it up and tries to make the story bigger. That is exactly what happened in our case. Nothing was said about our company until we laid off staff.

In CC's case I guess if I had my choice I would rather take the 10% rather than losing my job. CC in order to survive in this down time they have to make extreme cuts.

The big question I have out of this whole thing is when did we start to think the companies owe employees a job and a wage? This is what most people think in this country and it is a sad state as far as I am concerned. As business slows down the overhead ratio goes drasticallly up and hard cuts have to be made. My dad had to work hard to get a decent wage, so did I.


murph

So the solutions should be: Keep all the hourly people and fire all management. They don't do anything and get paid too much.