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Best snowcat for backcountry skiing?

Silver Surfer

New member
I live on a mountain ranch outside of Sun Valley, Idaho and would like to buy a snow cat for accessing the skiable terrain on the ranch. Optimally, the cat would hold 4-5 (including driver) & could navigate 30+/- degree slopes (and not too slowly). I've been considering a 1980 Bombi, but am concerned it will be too small & not powerful enough. I also want the machine to be as simple as possible as I'm not really mechanical. I also considering a couple cats on Sno-Trans. Any advice & input would be appreciated. Currently, we use a Yamaha 4stroke snowmobile to access the terrain. Thanks.
 
While the Bombi is a great machine it really struggles in deep snow on steep slopes. It will do it and when a trails is packed down will perform much better but with 5 people and ski gear is maxed out. I like the Sprite as an all around do everything snowcat especially if it has an auto transmission. I've never owned a Tucker but they are known to be great at tackling the steep and deep.

Welcome to the Forum.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the bombi's and most of the other cats that are towable are going to suck a bit trying to go up hills i used a br100 to tow back my snow trac when it dropped a valve it was lacking in the hille especialy when trying to steer. the snow masters and wide track models will be better riggs for what you are doing but the penalty will be hey are going to be oversize for towing and need permits to move on the roads. a smaller tucker might also be a good idea they are simple and a proven platform with alot of power
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I've never owned a Thiokol/LMC/DMC so I can't really comment on their steep and deep capabilities.

I'm a Tucker guy and I like a great deal of their design features; more specifically the extensive use of easily sourced automotive parts. This may (or may not) be a big deal to you, but Tucker is still in business and still owned by the Tucker family. They have many, many parts available and their customer service is simply outstanding.

Thiokol and its descendants (LMC/DMC) shut their doors a number of years ago. Parts are generally still available, but for how long?

Here's a link to a youtube video of a Tucker in deep snow:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5xymCB2i-Q"]going up dyer big storm 2010 tucker sno cat - YouTube[/ame]

I don't know which Yamaha four-stroke snowmobile you have but I doubt it could handle what the Tucker in the video did so easily.
 

Silver Surfer

New member
Thanks everyone for their input. Very helpful. The Bombi is clearly not going to work for my needs. Tucker sno-cats appear to be a great option. Sno-Trans (which is relatively close to Sun Valley) has several Tuckers for sale, although the newer ones are out of my price range (trying to spend less than $30K). Sno-Trans does have a 1987 Tucker 1342 with a 2 man cab (v-8 gas, with a 5 speed) for sale in my price range. It could work with passengers riding on the stake bed (I guess I would bolt on a bench seat). Is the manual transmission going to be a bear to drive and does this cat brake or hydrostatic steer (I think I prefer brake steer for quick warm up and maintenance). There is also a "Custom Quad Tucker" for sale at chameleonic.com for $20K. Although there isn't much info on this cat (year made/hours?). Would the best Tucker for my needs be the 2000XL if I can find one in my price range?

Another brand I'm considering is LMC (although I'm definitely mindful of Blackfoot Tucker's point on closed manufacturers). Would a LMC 1200 (is this a spryte?) fulfill my needs? Sno-Trans has a 1990 LMC 1200C ST with a 10 man cab for sale for a bit over my price range (217 hours, auto transmission). How does this machine steer (brake) and is it easier to trailer than the Tuckers? Finally, is there a better model of LMC for me to consider?

Thank you for your help. I would love to figure out my best option and get it bought for when the snow finally starts flying. Hasn't snowed for weeks here.

P.s. And no my yamaha nytro MXT wouldn't do the job of the Tucker in that really deep powder! It probably could get up a pretty steep slope if I was just riding it alone (without a passenger tucked behind me and towing a skier).... But since we rarely get that kind of massive deep powder in Southern Idaho and I don't use it for high lining (just yoyoing up skiers or accessing the deep back country as an approach vehicle )I can't say. But I'm jealous of that kind of deep powder, particularly this year (so far)! Thanks again.
 

mwilson

New member
I would recommend the Spryte (1200) out of all the machines discussed. Most 1200's you should be able to pick up in the $25K to $30K. What I do know is that LMC is out of business but that Peterson Equipment can supply you with any part that you could possibly need for pretty much any LMC/DMC/Thiokol.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
tuckers don't break steer they articulate as such front and rear steering so like the snow trac they have power to all tracks at all times. break steer is your worst system in deep snow thiokol and lmc overcomes this with extra wide tracks i think you will find that some caution will be required to use a trailerable brake steer rig in extreem conditions on the otherhand if you have wind blown snow or a bit of crust it's tough to beat brake steer for simplicity
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks everyone for their input. Very helpful. The Bombi is clearly not going to work for my needs. Tucker sno-cats appear to be a great option. Sno-Trans (which is relatively close to Sun Valley) has several Tuckers for sale, although the newer ones are out of my price range (trying to spend less than $30K). Sno-Trans does have a 1987 Tucker 1342 with a 2 man cab (v-8 gas, with a 5 speed) for sale in my price range. It could work with passengers riding on the stake bed (I guess I would bolt on a bench seat). Is the manual transmission going to be a bear to drive and does this cat brake or hydrostatic steer (I think I prefer brake steer for quick warm up and maintenance). There is also a "Custom Quad Tucker" for sale at chameleonic.com for $20K. Although there isn't much info on this cat (year made/hours?). Would the best Tucker for my needs be the 2000XL if I can find one in my price range?

Another brand I'm considering is LMC (although I'm definitely mindful of Blackfoot Tucker's point on closed manufacturers). Would a LMC 1200 (is this a spryte?) fulfill my needs? Sno-Trans has a 1990 LMC 1200C ST with a 10 man cab for sale for a bit over my price range (217 hours, auto transmission). How does this machine steer (brake) and is it easier to trailer than the Tuckers? Finally, is there a better model of LMC for me to consider?

Thank you for your help. I would love to figure out my best option and get it bought for when the snow finally starts flying. Hasn't snowed for weeks here.

P.s. And no my yamaha nytro MXT wouldn't do the job of the Tucker in that really deep powder! It probably could get up a pretty steep slope if I was just riding it alone (without a passenger tucked behind me and towing a skier).... But since we rarely get that kind of massive deep powder in Southern Idaho and I don't use it for high lining (just yoyoing up skiers or accessing the deep back country as an approach vehicle )I can't say. But I'm jealous of that kind of deep powder, particularly this year (so far)! Thanks again.

Silver,

The Tucker line up has changed considerably over the years. In the seventies and eighties the nomenclature was a four digit number.

The first two digits referred to the series; 1300, 1500, 1600, etc. The 1300 series had short tracks with four idler wheels. The 1500 series had five idler wheels and the 1600 and 1700 series machines had six idler wheels. (more on this later...)

The third digit was a four and that's because Tuckers have four tracks (as opposed to most other manufacturers whose machines have two tracks).

The last number refers to the number of doors. A xx42 would be a two door machine (think standard cab pickup). A xx43 would have three doors. The configuration is two doors in front and one all the way in the back. The rear seating configuration was two benches facing each other. Three door models are also referred to as "sedans". Finally an xx44 would be a four door (think crew cab pickup).

The three door models are the most rare and the two door models are the most common.The 1300 series machines are common in the midwest and the northeast where they get considerably less snow and the snow has a higher moisture content. Out west 1500 and 1600 series machines are more desirable because of the longer tracks which provide more surface area and better flotation.

Tuckers don't "brake steer", they "crab steer". As I mentioned a Tucker has four tracks. Two tracks are on the front axle and two on the rear axle. When you turn the steering wheel you send hydraulic pressure to a cylinder that simultaneously move both axles-in opposite directions. So you turn the wheel left, the front tracks turn left and the rear tracks turn right.

Personally I'd stay away from a two door Tucker if you want to carry more than one other person. Yes extras could ride in the back, but that's far less than optimal. The full cab Thiokols/LMCs/DMCs have considerably more room in them than the Tuckers.

I've had three Tuckers and they all came with manual transmissions. You pretty much have to start in the gear you want to run in. They decellerate so fast when you step on the clutch that the machine will stop before you've finished the shift. The exception would be fifth gear where you'd start in fourth... Honestly, Tuckers are very easy to drive. It really is like driving a pickup with a standard transmission (or an automatic as that was an option).

Good Luck and ask as many questions as you'd like.
 
break steer is your worst system in deep snow thiokol and lmc overcomes this with extra wide tracks i think you will find that some caution will be required to use a trailerable brake steer rig in extreem conditions on the otherhand if you have wind blown snow or a bit of crust it's tough to beat brake steer for simplicity

While the controlled differential in Bombardiers and Thiokol/LMC do have break bands in them they are used to change the gear ratio so one side is slower than the other when turning. Both sides have power to the track in a turn. There is a ton of information on this site on how they work. The 36" wide tracks on the Spryte/1200 make the machine a legal width of 8"6". I owed and operated one in Hatcher Pass,Ak for a couple of winters that had a large passenger cab on it and the snow is deep and the slopes are very steep. It never came close to getting stuck and it had the 36" tracks. Drove it all over the Petersville area along with my Bombies for many years in deep snow so Sorry DDS, your description of the lmc1200 steering isn't accurate at all.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
i would have to agree with you as the only experiance i have had with this system is on bombies and m113's in the military niether one steered real well on the hills of course my st can also struggle on a hill in low traction situaions if you are trying to maintain control on a hill i would have to guess a tucker or bv would have the best system but personal experiance wih bombies was that brake steer didn't work as well as the snowtracs varriator system it was spinning the down hill track and diggig in the up hill track my guess is with a longer track it would have worked better and with a wider track with a deaper grouser would have also been better as a final note i have never got the st stuck that dosn't mean its impossable all machines need a good operator and they all have their good points even the krusty has a use they make good yard art or a conversation peice for Bg Al's man cave
 

Silver Surfer

New member
Thanks everyone for all the info. My head is spinning a bit with all the info, but I will keep digging into the site to learn more. I will also have to do some traveling to check out some of the available Tuckers & DMC/LMC/Thiokols. I'm sure I will have more questions in the near future. Thanks again.
 

mtncrawler

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Check out A-Model Spryte they work for us. Only about 10K instead of 35K for a C or 1500. Not as tough but you don't need it for what you want to do.
 

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Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
at this point there is nothing wrong with any of these riggs listed they all have their weaknesses and strong points your best bet is look at what you are going to do questions to ask is how many people are you going to seat how deep is the snow are you going to trailer every time or park it and leave it for the winter what made up my mind for he snow trac is it's light enough i don't have to permit it to cross private or public laand here in alaska i would love some thing like a thiokol 2100 with the ac diesel they just look cool but much to heavy to ship here just to scoot around for fun
 

Blackfoot Tucker

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Another piece of advice I'd give you is to get the cab style you like up front.

Cab conversions take all shapes and sizes. Some are well done, some are pure cr*p. A nicely done conversion will cost significant money. Unless you buy a two door model ultra cheap, I think you'll be dollars ahead if you get it right at the beginning.

I would also suggest you look at ksl.com for a machine. They are typically (but not always) in the used snowmobile category.

Here's a link to a Thiokol Trackmaster which, if my limited Thiokol knowledge is correct, was the predecessor of the 600 series which later became the Sprytes.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=18527890&cat=&lpid=&search=trackmaster
 
I keep a constant eye on just about any snowcat for sale advertised on the internet and see Spryte/1200C on a regular bases going for well under $20,000 and they are usually around $12,000. There are two on Resort Boneyard ( www.resortboneyard.com ) and a nice Skidozer. Petersons equipment has two, one an A model which is the same one listed on Resort Boneyard and a full cab C model. ( www.petersonequipment.com ). Now if you are wanting one that is turn key and ready to work with no known problems then I would look no further than Bill Gunthrie at Sno-Trans. You may pay a little more up front but it will be money well spent. There is an A model listed on Denvers Craigs list and there were several more when you do a country wide Craigslist search. Just in the last few minutes I found a half a dozen possible cats and sure some are more dog than cat but I bet more than one is worth looking at. Good Luck. And by the way I think the Tuckers and Sno-Tracks are good deep snowcats too but I have no personal experiance with them. I converted to Pisten Bullies myself and don't get too excited about much else. I did buy a LMC 1800 this fall for $4500 that needs a little Sheetmetal work but that is another story.
 
This is a 1977 Spryte I bought for $11,000 in 1995. Then I transformed it into a deluxe tour cat in 1998 and "tried" to make a go of a snowcat business in Hatcher Pass/Independence Mine from 1999-2001 and finally had Bill Gunthrie sell it in about 2004.
 

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Lia

Banned
I've never owned a Thiokol/LMC/DMC so I can't really comment on their steep and deep capabilities.

I'm a Tucker guy and I like a great deal of their design features; more specifically the extensive use of easily sourced automotive parts. This may (or may not) be a big deal to you, but Tucker is still in business and still owned by the Tucker family. They have many, many parts available and their customer service is simply outstanding.

Thiokol and its descendants (LMC/DMC) shut their doors a number of years ago. Parts are generally still available, but for how long?

Here's a link to a youtube video of a Tucker in deep snow:


I don't know which Yamaha four-stroke snowmobile you have but I doubt it could handle what the Tucker in the video did so easily.

Great find! Awesome, Awesome video... what I wouldn't have given to have been there and experienced that trek. These machines are amazing.
 

Mtn-Track

Member
My 1953 Tucker 443 with the steel pontoons/tracks was a county SAR cat that I used to drive back in the 1990's. Interior space and track maintenance was always an issue, especially in marginal snow. The county replaced it with an 8-man-cab Spryte and it didn’t go well. In taking the Spryte into the same locations as the old Tucker we found it pushed a lot of snow and choked the radiator; = overheating issues. We got it stuck a lot, and also discovered we had to do a lot of stop, back-up, then give it another try to keep it moving in steep and deep snow, especially loaded. The only real advantage was that in marginal snow the tracks were not an issue and the interior was far superior to the old Tucker. Now the county has a new Trooper with a rear cabin. They already tore up the sides and exhaust on it by picking up rocks and sticks with the tracks.... ie: marginal snow conditions!:hammer:

The point being, even the old steel-track Tucker seemed to run circles around the Spryte. That being said, if you’re looking at a Tucker, I’d go with a 1500-series or more for the deep-snow capability. The 1300 is more of a trail/hard snow/shallow snow machine.

My experience with a Sno-Trac is limited, but it may not have the room or the power to do what you want. A Sno-Master may be better(?).

Other than that, you may be looking at a wide "groomer".:unsure:
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the st's may also have room issues the snow master would be un stoppable he down side would be if you would be weaving through the trees the snow tracs and masters are easy to tow and inexpensive to maintain the bigger cats are roomy and more powerful if you get one stuck the fun will start
 

BigAl

Gone But Not Forgotten
SUPER Site Supporter
You cannot go wrong with Bill at Snow Trans . He is a man of his word !
 

Fritzhaus

New member
Bumping an old thread.

How realistic would it be to use a 1200C for backcountry skiing where cutting roads into sidehills would be necessary? Do these old gas machines have enough power to do that efficiently, or is that more the domain of the big diesel machines?
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think they can do it, but at the expence of time and wear and tear...

They are not nearly as fast or effecient as the newer diesels for sure though.

Heavy work=More, and faster wear of the clutch, drives and transmissions. Parts can be a problem as well. I think there is a video of one of these building a road here some where....

Regards, Kirk
 
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