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Winch, hope this works

daedong

New member
On my boat I have a gypsy winch on my anchor, It is slow and a very ordinary performer. I have looked at buying a drum winch to replace it, the cheapest I can find in oz that seems ok for my boat are quite expensive. So being cheap I have bought this winch and will try to modify it to make a drum anchor winch. I have never seen this done, but have spoken to one person that claims he has done this.
What I intend to try and do is cut through the drum and manufacture a much larger drum to accommodate about 80 metres of rope.
Tomorrow I will dismantle it and start modifying.
I will post pictures throughout the next day or two as I proceed, this could be embarrassing, posting as I do something not really knowing the outcome!
 

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thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Vin,

Making a larger drum to accommodate more cable will you loose a bunch of power when the cable is mostly in?? I know you would gain speed.


murph
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
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How about that winch being left as is and connecting it to a larger split spool. On one side of the larger spool, the winch cable is connected. On the other side, the anchor line.
 

fogtender

Now a Published Author
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On my boat I have a gypsy winch on my anchor, It is slow and a very ordinary performer. I have looked at buying a drum winch to replace it, the cheapest I can find in oz that seems ok for my boat are quite expensive. So being cheap I have bought this winch and will try to modify it to make a drum anchor winch. I have never seen this done, but have spoken to one person that claims he has done this.
What I intend to try and do is cut through the drum and manufacture a much larger drum to accommodate about 80 metres of rope.
Tomorrow I will dismantle it and start modifying.
I will post pictures throughout the next day or two as I proceed, this could be embarrassing, posting as I do something not really knowing the outcome!


Are you using your winch on a boat in salt water? If so, that winch will be out of service in the first season. It is a good winch on the fourwheelers and such, but not very good in a salt water enviroment.

Is your anchor line a rope or chain? If it is a rope, they make very good Capstans that allow you to pull up the anchor and are sealed to prevent the saltwater from attacking them. Some have the Chain adapt with them for smaller anchor chain.

They make "Boat Winches" for mounting on trailers to pull the boat up on the rollers, but they are not a true Marine grade winch.

Here is a site that Westmarine has on what you are looking for and may be of some help in looking for what you need.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/AnchorWindlasses.htm

If you are running in fresh water, that winch is ok for a couple of years. Just spray it with something like WD-40 or the like after each use when you store it.

Good luck
 

daedong

New member
I have a gypsy/windlass winch now, I do not like it, it is slow and the rope often slips particularly when retrieving anchor in 10mt plus of water.

regarding lasting, I believe if looked after and only used casually at sea it will last a long time. I guess though only time will tell. I will cover it in lanolin that will help heaps.

Anyway I am committed now, started this morning.

Pulled apart, some more pics later today as I proceed.
 

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Doc

Bottoms Up
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Good project Vin. What is the deepest it will be where you anchor? As I understand it you need 3 to 7 times the depth in line. So for 50 ft you would need at least 150 ft of line. For rough waters you would want 5 times the depth, and for extremely rough waters you'd want 7 times the depth in line. I'm on the river and some do not even have 3 times the depth for their anchors. I've never seen anyone with 7 times the depth. iIt is 35 ft in most places so that equates to 245 ft of line. :eek:
 

daedong

New member
Yes Doc, that is generally the rule of thumb. We fish in waters between 5 metres (16') and 20 metres(65'). I have 100 metres (330') of anchor rope plus 5 metres (16') of chain.
 

daedong

New member
Going ok at this point. Cut discs for end of reel. Cut side frame plates. Cut old spindle / spool in half as I will weld the ends on the extended shaft. The reason for doing this is the old spool is female splined on one end for a male spline to travel in and out to engage drive. I could do away with the spline, and the winch would be fixed to operate in an up and down function, but by leaving it I hope to still use it with a free fall function. Pictures I hope tell the story. Not good at explaining this sort of thing.
 

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fogtender

Now a Published Author
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Going ok at this point. Cut discs for end of reel. Cut side frame plates. Cut old spindle / spool in half as I will weld the ends on the extended shaft. The reason for doing this is the old spool is female splined on one end for a male spline to travel in and out to engage drive. I could do away with the spline, and the winch would be fixed to operate in an up and down function, but by leaving it I hope to still use it with a free fall function. Pictures I hope tell the story. Not good at explaining this sort of thing.


Looks like it will turn out to be a pretty good piece of work. Using CRC on it will keep the salt water air and from damaging it a bit longer also.
 

daedong

New member
So far so good, I still have free shaft to make, and some rods to go across the top to brace it together.
 

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fogtender

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Are you going to store the line on it?

If so will you use it to pull the anchor and set it from the drum?

Do you have any plans for a brake/lock assembly?

Or are you going to tie the line off on a Cleat?

That style of winch is rated at about 2,500 lbs at the center of the spool, not on the outside wrap. With the size of your drum it may drop to a few hundred pounds or less when the wraps are out to the full side of the drum assembly.

If you are going to use the winch to pull, it might be a good idea to widen out the base inline with the pull so it doesn't pull the drum over or bend it, or am I getting ahead of your plan already.... if so, sorry... Looks like you are on to a good deal!
 

daedong

New member
The line will stay on the reel. I will mount it on the bow deck, and run the remote back inside the boat. I think the base will be strong enough.

At the monument I am trying to design a lever arrangement so I can activate the free fall spline. From that lever I will run a cable back inside the boat.

I do not intend to tie the anchor rope to a cleat, I hope the gears in the motor are strong enough to hold it, cross my fingers and hope.



In regards to the capacity of the winch , in theory it should only have to pull a fraction of its capacity. Obviously when max rope is out the greater the leverage on the spool, as the anchor is retrieved the leverage decreases and there should be less need for torque.

Snowcat, I will try and get some dielectric grease, good idea.
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
I do not intend to tie the anchor rope to a cleat, I hope the gears in the motor are strong enough to hold it, cross my fingers and hope.

Unfortunately Vin, I don't think this is going to work. DC motors don't have any "holding" power, and as soon as you remove power, the assembly will start to free-spool. At a minimum, you will need a brake mechanism somewhere.

Here's an easy test....with the motor sitting on the bench, and not energized, can you grab hold of the shaft and rotate it? I'm guessing you can easily do this by hand, or at most with a pair of pliers. Your anchor and line are going to have a bunch more force than your hand, so they will also cause the motor to turn.
 

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Unfortunately Vin, I don't think this is going to work. DC motors don't have any "holding" power, and as soon as you remove power, the assembly will start to free-spool. At a minimum, you will need a brake mechanism somewhere.


If that is a standard ATV winch it will hold some. On mine if you wanted to free wheel it you had a pin you could pull to free wheel it. Otherwise the onlly you could get the cable out was to run the winch in reverse. You could not pull it out by hand.

murph
 

DaveNay

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If that is a standard ATV winch it will hold some. On mine if you wanted to free wheel it you had a pin you could pull to free wheel it. Otherwise the onlly you could get the cable out was to run the winch in reverse. You could not pull it out by hand.

murph

The pin you pulled was probably disengaging the brake mechanism I was referring to.
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
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Just dont get the Dielectric grease anywhere near you mucas membranes! Eyes nose ect ect. Bad stuff if you do (they membranes swell up!). Wear rubber gloves and wash up after your done.
 

daedong

New member
Dave, it is driven through a planetary gear, you would never turn it by hand. The pin that Murph mentioned actually slides/moves the spline (part 27) that I talked about in my last post.

Snowcat, thanks for the warning.
 

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fogtender

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The line will stay on the reel. I will mount it on the bow deck, and run the remote back inside the boat. I think the base will be strong enough.

You may want to use a cleat for a backup tie down then. When your boat takes a big swell, all that pull of the boats weight and floatation (which adds to line pull, and in some cases can be thousands of pounds) will pull on it and "May" rip it off the boat with the current light gauge metal holding it as shown in the photos (but I haven't seen it finished yet either) .

Having been around ships and boats most of my life as an engineer, you would not believe how much force an anchor line will be subject to when you aren't thinking about it, even on a small boat...

You can figure that your centerline pull will be about 10" to 15" up vertical, depending on how much line is on the spool. The force of the pull will be directly sideways to that causing a heavy angled strain. A cleat is deck mounted with almost no vertical height to allow leverage to rip it out of the deck.

Very good metal work though!
 

daedong

New member
The free fall mechanism seems to be working well. Fogtender the winch frame is much stronger then it looks, it is 5083 aluminum x 4 mm thick, but my deck is not strong enough. I have mounted it over a frame on the bow but the bow sheet still flexes. At this point I am not sure what to do, I have a few options, the most simple would be to run a strut from back top corners to just below the windscreen, it may look a bit daggy but after all its only a fishing boat.
Another problem I have is the current anchor rope will not fit on the spool, it only takes about 70 metres. It is 12 mm rope which is over kill for the boat, I will need to get new 10mm rope.

I still need to cut the roller from the old system off the deck.
 

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Snowcat Operations

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For reinforcing I would simply increase the size of the bottom plate so it takes up much more area on the deck (top of deck). Then at each anchor point I would use large individual plates or a one bigger plate that the one on top of the deck. (if they are the same size it will act like a cookie cutter and cut through the deck) They need to be at least a 1/2" larger in outer dimension. Hope this makes sense.
 

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fogtender

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The free fall mechanism seems to be working well. Fogtender the winch frame is much stronger then it looks, it is 5083 aluminum x 4 mm thick, but my deck is not strong enough.

Well it certainly looks sharp, now you need to go out and kill your quota of Great Whites to preserve the sport fishing!:thumb:

Are the holes where the wires coming up through the deck, sealed so water doesn't drain down them? I see rubber gromets, but can't tell if they are sealed. Some black silicone would seal them nicely and some on the wire connections/bolts would keep them from corroding on you too.
 

bczoom

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Vin,

Looks great!!
What are you going to use for a fairlead?
Amsteel makes some line that's thinner but just as strong.
You may need to look at a mechanical brake for the winch to stop it from slowly spooling out. It's available (as an option) by most winch manufacturers.
 

daedong

New member
Extending the surface area of the base was difficult to do as the deck is curved. What I decided to do was just run two simple straps from the top of the winch at about a 45 degree angle back to the base of the deck just below the windscreen. (Pic below) Yes I siliconed the grommet hole where the electrical cables went through, unfortunately I could not silicon the hole that took the small rope that is used to engage free fall. I did however, put a rubber washer on the rope to minimise water entering through the hole. I apologise for not responding earlier, I feel guilty that I started this thread and could not complete it before my fishing trip. I was under pressure to finish it in a hurry as I had organised to go fishing with a mate last Thursday. We left at 4 am and traveled 3 hours to my fishing destination. The fishing was not that good, very little bites, but I did score one good sized one. I don't know whether you have this fish in the north, but they are great eating it is called a Snapper.
 

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Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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I know we used to catch 'red snappers' off the east coast, but they didn't look like that. Not sure they're related. I think yours looks more like a Mahi Mahi, except the eyes aren't low enough. Looking for a picture...


Still haven't found an actual picture, but here's a description and drawing...

Red Snapper (Lutjanus campechanus) reach a maximum size of ~50 pounds. Red Snapper, as the name implies, have a somewhat reddish color. A more descriptive adjective would probably be rose colored. The young have a large dark spot just below the back part of the dorsal fin. Red Snapper range from Massachusetts down to Florida and west through the Gulf of Mexico to the Yucatan and the Caribbean.
Red Snapper are schooling fish and are very important gamefish as well as commercial fish. They do not migrate at all and can sometimes live for long periods of time (yrs) at the same structure. Their love of structure makes offshore oilrigs excellent places to look when fishing for snapper. Red Snapper are commonly caught in water from 60' to 300' feet deep. But this doesn't mean that they will be on the bottom. It's a good idea to start fishing shallow since they will often be only 30 feet deep although they are in water much deeper. They often move to shallower waters in the winter. Snapper will always live in and around structure, which provides them with protection from large predators as well as are prime hunting ground.

Key Notes and Tips:
*Red Snapper feed on smaller fish, squid, shrimp and eels.
*Jig fisherman sometimes catch Red Snapper but the overwellming majority are caught on natural bait.
*The older a Red Snapper gets the more line shy it becames.
*If you want to catch big Red Snapper then you must fish with large baits.
*Click here to see a picture of a large Red Snapper Red Snapper

Found a picture of a 35 pounder...
 

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fogtender

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Extending the surface area of the base was difficult to do as the deck is curved. What I decided to do was just run two simple straps from the top of the winch at about a 45 degree angle back to the base of the deck just below the windscreen.


Looks like that will work really well!! Nice fish, bit different from the Red Snappers we have here in Alaska... must be because yours are upside down....:thumb:
 
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