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Virginia Military Institute

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I've debated a while about writing this information on the internet for while, and finally decided I should. It's going to be a bit long even taking as many short cuts as possible, so feel free to just pass on reading it if you don't have the time. As they say, the devil is in the details, so certain details cannot be left out, thus the length. So, here we go.

My oldest son decided about 6 or 7 years ago that he wanted to be a career military officer. He was told to join the JROTC and then matriculate at a military academy or college. So, that is what he did. He won top honors in his JROTC region and carried about a 3.7 GPA in high school. The combination of which got him invitations to several military schools. My wife and I took him to visit some, he went to visit others on his own and the JROTC took him to VMI, their recommendation for him. After a relatively short amount of time he opted for VMI (Virginia Military Institute). Not positive how he wanted to enlist, he worked with several enlistment offices in our region and ended up enlisting in the National Guard. Two hours after receiving his high school diploma he was off to boot camp at Ft. Benning, GA.

All went smoothly according to him and he was excited to have a couple weeks off before heading off to VMI. We spent that time filling out paperwork to insure that the National Guard was going to pay for his tuition at VMI and, in return, he was to serve 6 years upon graduation. No problem. He planned on serving far more than that anyway. All seemed well until we showed up at VMI for his first day.

I'll make it very short, but they have a very regimented program of how they process incoming "Rats" in their main gym. Sitting in the stands we noticed that when our son got to the officials as the line progressed, everything seemed to stop. Then I was paged over the intercom system to come to the gym floor. WTF?? After I walked across the floor, everyone staring at me because my son had stopped all processing, I encountered a colonel Something (can't recall their name, but everyone who is employed there seems to be a colonel). I was told then that the National Guard wasn't going to pay his tuition and I needed to write them a check for some amount like $20k or he couldn't enroll. "Fine", I said, "Let's go". Unfortunately, his mother had arrived at the table by then and my son was pleading with me. Long story short here, if I had to write them a check, we were leaving. Many phone calls later (and about 3 hours of waiting), we were told he could stay but we needed to immediately begin working out the problem. This was on a Saturday.

On Monday, after wasting most of the day, we discovered that the Indiana National Guard was unaware that the U.S. National Guard would no longer pay for out of state tuition for their soldiers. So, being we are from Indiana and VMI is in VA, nothing would be paid. I finally was able to speak to a "Major General" Something, who said he was the head of the Indiana National Guard. He informed me that, even though his recruiter promised tuition would be paid at VMI (no other school was ever discussed), the Indiana National Guard would positively NOT pay for his tuition at VMI but my son was still obligated to serve because he was now enlisted. :angry: Literal translation; it's perfectly acceptable for recruiters to make "misstatements" in order to get soldiers to enlist and there is no recourse.

A week later of wasting time speaking with dozens of people who seemed to forget that I am a civilian and they do NOT outrank me and I do not have to reply "Sir, yes sir", I finally discovered the only place to go is to congressmen and senators for any possible resolution. You may NOT sue the military for making false promises to induce enlistment. Fortunately, I reached a congressman (I'll leave their name out for now) who sent a "demand" to both VMI and the Indiana National Guard for an explanation. Two days later my son was honorably discharged from the National Guard and then immediately enlisted in the U.S. Army, who said they'd pay his tuition at VMI. Whew, finally solved. Wrong! VMI insisted that I pay right at $10k a year in fees due that supposedly were not covered by the Army even though my son and I were told that his complete tuition would be covered, room and board would be covered, books would be covered and he'd receive $700 a month stipend but he'd still have to drill with the Army every other week (or something like that). VMI never explained the fees but pulled him out of class until I paid. Between my son and his mother, against my better judgment, I paid them each semester.

Fast forward to the end of his sophomore year. This is where my son really screwed up. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of rules that must be followed by every student at VMI. No problem, my son wanted to go there and he knew the rules. Apparently any rule that has "honor" written after it means that you are expelled if you break that rule. One of those rules was that, as a cadet at VMI, you must leave the county within 45 minutes of signing out from the campus. I can only guess why it's a rule but, regardless, it's a rule. My son and 3 of his friends make the very stupid mistake of attending an all night party at the very end of their sophomore year at a girl's house that was in county. I'm told that everyone is a "snitch" there so, obviously, they got caught. What a stupid decision, opting to go to a party with the real chance of being expelled and losing all rank that may have been achieved in the military! Clearly, he got caught. As a formality, they have a "Honor Court" trial as a simple procedure. You show up, other students make up the court, they proclaim you guilty, throw your belongings into the courtyard and escort you off campus. According to a next door neighbor of a good friend who happens to be on the board of directors of VMI, I'm told that there was absolutely "no chance" he wouldn't be expelled. The rules are drilled into their heads constantly and he made a very, very stupid decision.

Sorry it's so long, but this just now brings me to my major problem. His trial was to happen on 31 August 2009. Classes started 1 September 2009. The trial was to be on a Monday before classes started on Tuesday. For still unknown reasons, the student "Honor Court" delayed the trial. That left my son and his 3 friends there with nothing to do. VMI called me and my wife over and over telling us that if we don't immediately pay roughly $4000 in these mystery fees they charge me, no trial will be needed and they will expel him for non-payment of tuition. My wife paid them via credit card on the phone along with a 3% additional fee for using a credit card. Every day either my son or another of the 'accused' students asked as to when they would have their trial. They did this via email and I have copies of the correspondences. The replies from the student in charge of the trial were extremely rude and threatening to put it mildly. He told them that they do NOT ask him any questions! He TELLS them what to do. The trial occurred 16 September 2009 and lasted less than 1/2 an hour. Of course, all were guilty and all were expelled and escorted off campus.

Now the real problem. VMI refuses to refund the $4000 they demanded from me because they say it's their "policy" that once a student was is there for 15 days, that semester's tuition is considered earned. Hmm, you now see why the mysterious delay of 15 days happened before they had the trial. I explained that to another colonel Something there and they basically told me "tough shit", your son shouldn't have screwed up because they instill honor as a top priority. WTF?? Then why are they stealing $4k from me in a very, very dishonorably fashion? No reply and I'm told that the final word is no refund! While I'm fuming about having $4,000 stolen from me, my son drops another bomb on me. He's gone to IU, applied, been accepted, and is transferring there next semester and will be in their ROTC program. Oh, the 'bomb'; VMI now says they want another $3500 or they won't release his transcript, no exceptions. Holy shit, what kind of immoral, dishonorable criminals run that place???

I have all of this documented. My attorneys and VMI's attorneys know VMI will drag this out for over a year before it can come to trial. Due to being enlisted, my son will be in Iraq by summer because he is no longer a full time student. VMI literally tells me to "pay up" or my son will be on the front line in Iraq because he's been busted down to a PFC! I really don't know what to do. VMI has already stolen, yes, stolen, $4000 from me and now with no explanation as to why, they are trying to extort another $3500 from me. And, to think, this is all over an "honor" issue!! I feel badly, but the bottom line is I'm not going to allow them to extort more money from me. In reality, they've gotten me for $20,000 in extortion money so far. All expenses were to be covered but they've extorted $4000 from me each semester for some bullshit fees, so after his first two years there and the one semester his junior year he didn't attend, that totals $20,000 they've gotten from me that wasn't owed. The $3500 extortion for his transcript is the straw that has broken the camel's back.

I'm trying to contact the governor of VA, the Atty General of VA, and all Senators and Congressmen from VA about this issue since that seems to be my only recourse. Unfortunately, they are all on 'holiday' and will look into the issue next year. VMI knows quite well that 'next year' is too late. And to think, I thought VMI was a great school who really touts "honor"! They are the worst group of thieves I've ever encountered! What to do??
 

buckle97

New member
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm glad you posted this. I have always had a great image in my head of VMI but had no direct information like this to base it on. To think that they had already gotten that much money out of you for nothing and then to try to get another $3,500 is just pure greed. There is nothing honorable about this story.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Interesting and sad story. I have a gut feeling that your son is screwed. Even if you manage to get Senators and Governors on your side. The people running these places are nothing but career civil servants and will hide behind bureaucracy and procedure instead of doing the right thing.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks for the reply. As you may have guessed, part of my decision to post the basic facts was based on council hoping somehow VMI would hear of it. It is my strong opinion that VMI is not an honorable institution. What I have written is NOT libel because it does not fit the legal description since I have provided only verifiable and documented details. I am also free to express my personal opinion that VMI is a very dishonorable establishment and what has lead me to express that opinion. It would be wonderful if representatives from VMI read this thread. Nothing but good could result. Unfortunately, based on my experience, it is highly unlikely VMI has the resources to look for, and read, all of the recent information that has become public knowledge about their unethical and dishonorable practices.
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
:eek: An institution that strives to instill honor is not acting honorably. In fact, it appears they are using every legal 'rule' they can to ensure they get all the cash they can from you. To charge for releasing a students grades for purpose of transfer seems so wrong. They must be really hard up to pull such shenanigans. It was thievery for them to hold off on the court hearing in order to get $4000 of your hard earned money, but to now want to charge for his transcripts of grades while attending it ludicrous.

With a lot of luck maybe someone with come clout at VMI will see this and take appropriate action.

Dumb question probably but this rule they broke about having to leave the county within 2 hours of being off duty, how could other cadets have been there to tattle on them if they to had to leave the county? Understood that rules are rules, but this one sure seems questionable. It is hard enough finding quality young men with the right apptitude to sign up to serve their country, to make them and their parents go through this kind of crapola is simply wrong. Best wishes to getting a positive resolution to this matter.
 

Cowboyjg

Country Club Member
Site Supporter
One has to wonder if this is one of those situations where the MSM would be beneficial in sharing with the world how the little guy is once again taken to the cleaners by the heartless actions of the bureaucracy?

Kind of like how they covered up Pat Tillman dying from friendly fire to name one of thousands of cover ups.
 

brazospete

New member
GOOGLE atomic veterans then read http://vetshelpcenter.com/videos/gulf-war-syndrome/beyond-treason.html If your son is still entangled with the DOD you have my sympathty because the DOD is a neverending nightmare! By the way FYI the casualty count for Iraq and Afganistan is Grossly under reported some place it at around 77,000 (that's more than Viet Nam or Korea) because casualties are emmediately transported to european hospitals and if they die enroute or later they are not included in the count! Welcome to the GREEN MACHINE!
 
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Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
This just gets worse and worse the more I dig into it. It's like peeling an onion and finding out each layer is more rotted than the one you just peeled. I was just informed today that the Attorney General of Virginia is on retainer by VMI and will not consider any complaint against the university. WTF?! Isn't the attorney general of a state supposed to insure that people and businesses within their state abide by the law?

Worse yet, apparently the governor of Virginia has received monies from VMI and will not take any action against the university! This is unbelievable. No matter where I go it seems that it is well known in higher circles that VMI actively extorts money from students and their parents and have done so for decades with the protection of all elected officials in Virginia. No elected official in Virginia will even make a single phone call regarding the blatant extortion actively perpetrated by VMI. This includes both of their senators and all of their congressmen as well as their attorney general and governor.

Anyone know where else I can turn to expose VMI's dirty little secret that is so broad that it includes all the elected officials who are supposed to insure the citizens this doesn't happen? I know there's corruption in government and I know there is corruption at VMI. However, I did NOT know that so many offices and agencies are involved. Even the military refuses to even look into any matter concerning VMI. Where do you go when a place, VMI, is extremely corrupt yet has the blessing of seemingly all elected officials to continue extortion from our young soldiers and their families. It's literally like all the people who should prevent this from happening stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to even listen to what VMI is doing.

Where do you go when even the government turns a blind eye to illegal activities and refuses to even consider looking into the issue? The obvious is to sue them. Unfortunately, I've been promised by VMI that "We do NOT lose any law suits against us!" Based on the rest of the corruption in Virginia, I now have to believe all judges there are instructed to rule in VMI's favor no matter the situation. This is so bad that it's unbelievable and it's been going on for generations. With the governor, attorney general, senators, congressmen and judges all corrupt, would any media outlet dare publish or look into this dirty little secret? I have to think that I'm not the first to squeak about their dirty little secret yet I've never heard it reported anywhere.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Find a really good lawyer willing to sue the government all the way to the Supreme court. While VMI may not "lose" any law suits - they may settle a few before going to trial. Of course, settling out of court doesn't solve the problem - it only covers it up.
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
A fine example of the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules...
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Find a really good lawyer willing to sue the government all the way to the Supreme court. While VMI may not "lose" any law suits - they may settle a few before going to trial. Of course, settling out of court doesn't solve the problem - it only covers it up.

Thanks. So far ever attorney or law firm practically piss down their leg when you tell them that you have rock solid evidence of extortion and wrongdoing from VMI. They all run with their tail tucked between their legs. They are so afraid that they don't even seem interested in even bothering to take my money and later tell me 'we lost'. I think they are terrified to be listed as council against VMI. This is unreal how deep and far reaching the corruption is concerning VMI. I have a feeling I've just touched the tip of the iceberg based on the responses.

Seriously, how low can you get? Stealing from our enlisted soldiers and their families. That's pretty darn low.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Seriously, how low can you get? Stealing from our enlisted soldiers and their families. That's pretty darn low.

Unfortunately, with the support of the government you can go really low.

You may have to seek support from a more left-leaning lawyer. Look in the big cities - they all hang out there. There are plenty of lawyers that would like nothing more than to sue the government.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I'd probably try the media (national) at this point.

I have my wife trying attorneys and I'm trying media. So far the only response I've received is that CNN "isn't interested" in investigating anything concerning VMI. I guess CNN is in with all the rest in protecting VMI from having their dirty secrets exposed. If the media outlets are afraid of VMI, I have to wonder if someone like Matt Drudge or another prominent 'blogger' would be willing to take up the story? I'm afraid that I'll find some who say they are very interested only to have them call me back next week and bow out after VMI gets a grip on them.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Unfortunately, with the support of the government you can go really low.

You may have to seek support from a more left-leaning lawyer. Look in the big cities - they all hang out there. There are plenty of lawyers that would like nothing more than to sue the government.

Good thought. I started writing and calling the ACLU a couple of weeks ago but haven't heard back from them. Could they also be afraid of the VMI machine? I mean there are judges, senators, congressmen, the governor of Virginia and the Attorney General of Virginia already in their fold.
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
Seriously, how low can you get? Stealing from our enlisted soldiers and their families. That's pretty darn low.

How low can you get? How about taking away a soldier's signing bonus after they get blown up in Iraq, on the grounds that they did not complete their service? I think that's a little bit lower, and it has happened.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
A fine example of the Golden Rule. He who has the gold makes the rules...

Thanks for the reply Rob. Six months ago I would have never believed that any university would not only be so corrupt but how far reaching the VMI corruption runs. This is unreal. They have all the gold as well as all who guard the gold it appears.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
How low can you get? How about taking away a soldier's signing bonus after they get blown up in Iraq, on the grounds that they did not complete their service? I think that's a little bit lower, and it has happened.

That's just plain sick. I guess government and state sponsored extortion by a university doesn't compare to that.

My wife just had another very large law firm tell us that they aren't interested in any action against VMI.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Large law firms are going to have their hands in all the same pockets as VMI. You need to find small guys who are prepared to do the work. If you can get additional VMI victims on board then you have a chance at a class action and that is much more appealing to a lawyer. You may want to try emailing law professors that specialize in civil liberties and see if they have any recommendations.
 

Tractors4u

Active member
Site Supporter
How low can you get? How about taking away a soldier's signing bonus after they get blown up in Iraq, on the grounds that they did not complete their service? I think that's a little bit lower, and it has happened.

Tell us more...
 

REDDOGTWO

Unemployed Veg. Peddler
SUPER Site Supporter
I for one used to trust the government and anything related to them. As I became older and maybe wiser I began to realize that the government is not a government of and by the people any longer. It is derived of many individuals doing their jobs in addition in creating more work so that their jobs are more valuable. The whole establishment is set up to self perpetuate and screwing the population is a by product of this process.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
Dargo here's another recruitment scandal.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0420/guard-recruiters-forged-reenlistment-papers/
National Guard recruiters forged re-enlistment papers: report


By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 -- 11:28 am


Washington State National Guard recruiters repeatedly forged re-enlistment papers in a desperate attempt to hold on to soldiers in the run-up to the Iraq war surge, a local news channel's investigation has found.

In one case, a soldier found himself fighting against deployment to Iraq after re-enlistment papers with his signature on it appeared -- even though he never signed any such papers, reports Chris Ingalls at KING channel 5 news in Seattle.

And in another case, a sergeant who had signed up for a one-year tour of duty was shocked to discover his enlistment papers stated he had signed up for two years.

Former soldier Michael Patrick sounded the alarm when he discovered forged re-enlistment papers with his name on them.
"Sounds crazy," Michael Patrick told KING 5. "Sounds like something from a movie."

The Washington National Guard soon determined that Sgt. Wendy Schaefer, a recruiter, had paid soldiers and civilians out of her own pocket to sign up recruits. She also promised the Guard would pay $1,000 for each enlistment.

According to Guard documents, Schaefer "created an environment that may have caused some of these 'paid assistants' to fabricate documents in order to get money."

"The documents we received in the Patrick case do not explain how anyone would possibly think they could get away with signing over a soldier's life," Ingalls reported.

In another instance, Sgt. Keith Jackson says he was confronted by his superiors with enlistment papers showing he signed up for a two-year tour of duty, when he says he signed up for a one-year tour.

"I didn't sign it," he told KING 5. "That isn't my signature."

"While the Guard denies the forgery it granted Jackson an honorable discharge soon after KING 5 first told his story," the channel reports.

In neither case has anyone in the Guard been disciplined. Sgt. Schaefer told KING 5 in an email that she left the Guard with her record intact. And the soldier who forged the signature in order to collect money from Schaefer has never been held to account either.
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
In neither case has anyone in the Guard been disciplined. Sgt. Schaefer told KING 5 in an email that she left the Guard with her record intact. And the soldier who forged the signature in order to collect money from Schaefer has never been held to account either.

So now we have officially institutionalized the "not responsible" syndrome?

These people should be court-martialed and handed over to the Navy to be keel-hauled and hung from the yard-arm for the seagulls to peck at their eyes.
 

Tractors4u

Active member
Site Supporter
I'm thinking there is more to this. I'm not enlisted myself, but the last I understood, was that an enlistment in the Guard was for 6 years as are re-enlistments. I'll have to check with our retention NCO and see what is available. I'm pretty sure there aren't any 1 year re-enlistment options. As for paying for recruits, the Guard does have what is called the GRAP program. The Guard Recruiting Assistance Program that pays soldiers for each recruit that enlists and completes basic training. That recruiter was just nuts for paying out of his own pocket. Recruiters have one of the toughest jobs with the quotas. The Alabama Guard doesn't have a recruiting problem. It seems like we have a new soldier back from basic every other month.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
My son originally enlisted in the National Guard, for 6 years, and they were going to pay for his college education. He planned to be career military. It was only after he enlisted, completed basic training and we were with him enrolling in VMI that VMI said that the IN National Guard doesn't pay anything to attend VMI and would I like to make my initial down payment of twenty grand in cash or put it on a credit card. If I wasn't willing to put down twenty grand on that Saturday, I was to please leave and have my son begin his 6 year active duty time in the National Guard.

That was my first bullshit! at VMI. They bluntly told me that they didn't care and that I could either pay up or have my son pack up to ship out. Being that it was a Saturday, and my wife and son were literally begging me to pay VMI, I told my wife to go ahead and write the check so it would buy me some time. (As soon as I got out of the gym and got a phone signal, I stopped payment on that check!). I then began a marathon effort of several weeks culminating in Congressman Ellsworth sending a page to VMI to have them answer some written questions. Only then did the ball get rolling and things started happening.

The next week he was "honorably discharged" from the Indiana National Guard and immediately enlisted in the Army, who was to pay for his education at VMI as well as provide a $600 a month stipend as long as he drilled on weekends. After the first semester VMI started nailing me for $16 grand a year for "other costs" (never explained) that I had to pay or my son would be expelled. Again, I said, let's go get him; this is bullshit. But, no, he and my wife begged me to pay. Pay I did, for two years. Now they expelled him on a minor infraction he committed his sophomore year. The bullshit part is that I was forced to pay for the first half of his Junior year or he would be automatically expelled and never have a "trial". Not knowing the "trial" was complete bullshit, and was not only conducted by other students, but I found written documentation (later) that instructed that he be expelled in the trial regardless of what transpired, I forked over the cash.

Rather than getting my cash back for the junior year he, and several other cadets, never attended, now VMI is extorting another $3500 or so from me to release his transcripts so he can continue his education somewhere else. If VMI is that hard up for cash, they just need to close. Otherwise, it needs to make national headlines that VMI actively extorts money from our young soldiers and their families with the complete backing and and endorsement of the VA Attorney General, the VA Governor and any judge who "wants to continue practice" in Virginia. I've never witnessed such blatant corruption in my entire life. VMI doesn't even try to hide any of these facts nor dispute them. They actually seem rather proud that they operate above the law and there isn't shit anyone can do about it.

I'm just sick about this entire thing and can now see why Bill Clinton famously said he "loathed" the military. I can see why. If it was as corrupt and full of shit as it is now, I agree with his feeling. At this point I have a deep hatred for VMI, the state of Virginia as well as the lying military. It's nothing more than organized, government sanctioned, crime.
 

working woman

New member
Site Supporter
Brent, first of all let me say I am sorry to hear all this is still going on.
What comes to mind with getting the word out is You Tube. I am hearing stories of this kind getting so many hits that news people pick it up
It might be worth a shot
 
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