1975 Snow-Master on craigslist

Unfortunately, it appears his rig has already sold. I called him last night and someone else had already dropped a check in the mail for a downpayment.

The situation that I'm working with is that I have a forest service access road at the top of my neighborhood, which opens up into some nice high alpine with fairly deep snow. I'd be able to drive the Snow Master out of my driveway and stay on snow covered roads the entire time so running over bare ground is not a concern.

Lyndon, care to chime in on the subject?

Might also be worth noting that there should only be half the herringbone grousers on this machine as a typical Snow Master, which may help out in terms of not eating up as much horsepower.

Edit: Just realized this probably isn't the case. I found this pic of a Snow Master on Wikipedia, which makes it seem as though only the inner/outer belting may have been removed and what remains is the middle two? Outer belts seem like they were only joined at every 3rd or 4th grouser.

the gearing is in the trans axle if i'm not mistaken so i don't know how feasable it will be to change it making your engine to where it will stand up to higher rpm's will give you more top end but will also shorten engine life 1 run mine around 5 k at cruse and ep to 5500 for short bursts any where over 4500 the heater works good but i under stand the snow trac motors had a governer in the distributor that started to shut down the ignition around 4k i've talked withseveral people who have told me that 5k on a factory engine is ok.

Actually, the gearing is changed at the chain drive after the transaxle. The ST4B has a larger front gear than the ST4.

mtnguyco1981 said:

Might also be worth noting that there should only be half the herringbone grousers on this machine as a typical Snow Master, which may help out in terms of not eating up as much horsepower.

Edit: Just realized this probably isn't the case. I found this pic of a Snow Master on Wikipedia, which makes it seem as though only the inner/outer belting may have been removed and what remains is the middle two? Outer belts seem like they were only joined at every 3rd or 4th grouser.

Click to expand...

Right, the inner/outer belts are gone and only every 3rd grouser is full width, usually they end up getting cut instead of trying to find more short ones to replace them.

JSX said:

Actually, the gearing is changed at the chain drive after the transaxle. The ST4B has a larger front gear than the ST4.

Click to expand...

JSX, any opinion on changing the gearing?

mtnguyco1981 said:

JSX, any opinion on changing the gearing?

Click to expand...

I haven't changed gearing in a ST4B yet, but I think it would work good with the narrow tracks.

JSX said:

Actually, the gearing is changed at the chain drive after the transaxle. The ST4B has a larger front gear than the ST4.

Click to expand...

well it may be all snow tracs than have the rare extra low gear set i was talking to a custom trans guy when looking at getting a new trans for what is now my parts machine and he had told me that some of the snow tracs had a lower than normal gear set in them which made that transmission highly coveted by dune buggy builders. perhaps its all the st transmissions i'm not an expert on the transmissions as i have never had to go inside one

The Big Sprockets in the engine compartment came in 36, 38, and 42 tooth combinations. The Small chain sprockets on the Variator came in 11, 12, and 15 tooth combinations. Standard oin a Snow Trac is 12's and 38's. Standard on a Trac Master or Snow Master is 11's & 42's. The difference is roughly 3:1 versus 4:1. This also directly correlates to why Snow Trac's usually have 3 times the miles as hours, and the "Masters" have closer to a 2 times per hour ratio. The machine I tried with the high ratio was lacking in torque at the high end. Just too much track. I had to drop back to lower ratios. It was a Trac Master with at 1776 CC, roughly 90 HP engine. In all one can get 9 possible combinations out of the 3 & 3 gear offering. It is also possible to get a variety of different gearing out of the Transaxels. ST4's were normally shipped with VW Bus Transaxels which have lower gearing than Bug Transaxels. Top speed according to the factory literature in a "Master" is 13.5 MPH, 22 in a Snow Trac. I was able to get over 25 on my 1963 Snow Trac that had the original 36/40 HP 1192 CC engine, on an ice covered road, and a good 30+ MPH out of a Snow Trac with a 1600, 53 HP Motor.

Lyndon,

Any thoughts on how the higher ratio would affect the Snow Master with the narrower tracks? Even though they are narrower than stock, do you think this would still be too much track to run a higher ratio when considering the herringbone grousers?

My house sits at 10,200 feet and I'd be driving to elevations in the neighborhood of 13K. This high up it seems somewhat doubtful that I'd be able to get the Snow Master up to 13+ miles an hour in its "stock" configuration with the narrower tracks. I'm not necessarily looking for it to do ST4 speeds, but if I could get it into the neighborhood of 16-18 mph that would be nice.

Ben

mtnguyco1981 said:

Lyndon,

Any thoughts on how the higher ratio would affect the Snow Master with the narrower tracks? Even though they are narrower than stock, do you think this would still be too much track to run a higher ratio when considering the herringbone grousers?

My house sits at 10,200 feet and I'd be driving to elevations in the neighborhood of 13K. This high up it seems somewhat doubtful that I'd be able to get the Snow Master up to 13+ miles an hour in its "stock" configuration with the narrower tracks. I'm not necessarily looking for it to do ST4 speeds, but if I could get it into the neighborhood of 16-18 mph that would be nice.

Ben

Click to expand...

your top speed on the st-4 will be limited to max engine rpm the snow master with cut tracks should be able to hit its top speed going up hill on a groomed trail at your altitude i think you will find the lower gear set to be your friend if you want to run in high gear

Just took my st4 #58025 on a 12 mile round trip up to 12,000 ft above sea level. No issues, but I am already thinking about a 1776cc with fuel injection. We spent a lot of the time in 2nd gear at about 8 mph climbing on packed trails. I would like to spend a little more time in 3rd even when climbing. Definitely feel the lack of hp at this kind of altitude mainly when going up hill or in untracked snow.

Ryan

leadvillerpm said:

Just took my st4 #58025 on a 12 mile round trip up to 12,000 ft above sea level. No issues, but I am already thinking about a 1776cc with fuel injection. We spent a lot of the time in 2nd gear at about 8 mph climbing on packed trails. I would like to spend a little more time in 3rd even when climbing. Definitely feel the lack of hp at this kind of altitude mainly when going up hill or in untracked snow.

Ryan

Click to expand...

good info mine has plenty of power at sea level i find the only limitation now is that with my pressure plate being weak i have to down shift to 3rd on hills because the engine will overcome the clutch and slip can't wait in another 2 weeks all my stuff should be here to redo the lower end and get rid of the excessive end play and have a new 200mm clutch

mtnguyco1981 said:

Might also be worth noting that there should only be half the herringbone grousers on this machine as a typical Snow Master, which may help out in terms of not eating up as much horsepower.

Edit: Just realized this probably isn't the case. I found this pic of a Snow Master on Wikipedia, which makes it seem as though only the inner/outer belting may have been removed and what remains is the middle two? Outer belts seem like they were only joined at every 3rd or 4th grouser.

Click to expand...

LOL. Thats my Snow Master. She has the 11 tooth small gear set and I believe the larger 38 tooth big sprockets. This picture was taken just outside of Elko in Lamoyle Canyon NV. The wikepedia has the location wrong. Anyway I was able to run her at about 13 to 14 mph just below red line. I now have a set of the 15 tooth small gear sets. When I put her back together I will have those installed along with a 120 hp motor. Im at about 8,000 at my back door and I only go up from there. Alos. Those tracks a very heavy compared to a set of Snow Tracs! You would easily have an additional 400 pounds diffrence in them alone! If you dont believe me come on over and help me roll them around. Bring your ST4 tracs and lets see. lol. Your back will thank you once your start pushing the much light Snow Trac tracks around!

Lyndon, So, both the Master and Trac have VW bus transaxels, and is the only difference in their sprocket combination? I was wondering, because I've talked to owners who have narrowed their wide tracks, but in 4th gear they don't feel they would have the power (1600) to go any faster, even if they changed their sprocket gearing. I'm just trying to figure out how you get more speed out of a Master. (is the answer: sell the Master and buy the Trac?) Thanks. Wheels

I flew out to Eugene to look at this one, just got back last night, took two days. My wife says I should look at some others before I buy any thing. So if anyone has a Trac or a Master that I could look at, good shape or bad, I would sure appreciate the opportunity to see and learn more.
Also, I took a little video with my phone, didn't turn out real good-I think I've dropped it too many times - but you can get some idea. If anyone else is interested, I'd be glad to share what I've got. Wheels

Wheels said:

I flew out to Eugene to look at this one, just got back last night, took two days. My wife says I should look at some others before I buy any thing. So if anyone has a Trac or a Master that I could look at, good shape or bad, I would sure appreciate the opportunity to see and learn more.
Also, I took a little video with my phone, didn't turn out real good-I think I've dropped it too many times - but you can get some idea. If anyone else is interested, I'd be glad to share what I've got. Wheels

Click to expand...

Mine isn't for sale but if you want to compare it fly to nome for the end of the iditarod dog race and i will take you out in my snow trac.

Thanks Don,that's a great offer, let me see how hard it is to get there. Wheels