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Arc welding non-ferrous

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
I spied some rods for various metals the other day, I think I'm going to liberate a few of each to try them out.

Does anyone have experience with stick welding any of the following materials? Anything to watch out for? (Toxic fumes was mentioned, can anyone confirm if any of the materials will give off dodgey smoke?) Copper, brass, cast iron, stainless and alley.

I have a DC machine, that I believe I need to weld those things? Or do they need to be welded on AC?

Thanks
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Jim, I've got no clue!!! But I will be watching for responses.

Dargo has experience with stainless. Vin built a heck of a nice looking boat out of Aluminum. Seems to me that I saw someone here on the ForumsForums do something with cast iron.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Bob, I think Dargo used TIG and Vin used MIG if I'm correct.

I wasn't even aware they made rods for brass and copper until I scraped the dust off the boxes to read the labels (they are mega old)
 

daedong

New member
Mith, I have no idea about arc elding copper, brass, alley. I would not use them until I know for sure about the fume saftey precautions. I have welded cast iron a few times over the years, it is best done with a little pre heating.
Try one of the many welding forums http://www.weldingweb.com/
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
I found this on copper welding
Warning: As most copper alloys include volatile and toxic elements that are liberated to the atmosphere during Welding-copper, which is not the case with the usual welding of steels, it is imperative to enforce special precautions in order to collect and dispose of noxious fumes, powders and dust and to provide to the welder an effective ventilation system.

Sounds like its something that needs to be done outside.


Vin, the preheating is to prevent cracking is it? I heard about melting a little copper into the pool to prevent cracking too, have you come across anything like that before?

Welding forums would be my next stop, but most aren't too friendly.

Thanks
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
To bad John isn't around anymore.

Have you heard from him at all Mith. He last looked in on us here last Nov.
 

daedong

New member
I have never heard about the copper thing
Yep you pre heat to prevent cracking and sometimes cool it slowly in the likes of lime.
Many welding forums are as you described.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Hey Mith,

If you read the instructions the manufacturer's usually give pretty good info on how to use their product. Do you have a website/manufacturer for the products you are looking at?
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Here's an article on Copper Welding:
http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article29.htm
Welding of Copper Alloys

Abstract:
Copper and copper alloys offer a unique combination of material properties that makes them advantageous for many manufacturing environments. They are widely used because of their excellent electrical and thermal conductivities, outstanding resistance to corrosion, ease of fabrication, and good strength and fatigue resistance. Other useful characteristics include spark resistance, metal-to-metal wear resistance, low-permeability properties, and distinctive color.

All the other non-ferrous metal articles they have are here:
http://www.key-to-nonferrous.com/default.aspx?ID=Articles#p9
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Doc, no I haven't heard from him, its a pity.

PB, the rods probably pre-date any manufacturers websites, a they are a good many years old.
The link basically says that SMAW is not a good process for copper, still, it'll be interesting to give it a go anyway :D
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Mith said:
Doc, no I haven't heard from him, its a pity.

PB, the rods probably pre-date any manufacturers websites, a they are a good many years old.
The link basically says that SMAW is not a good process for copper, still, it'll be interesting to give it a go anyway :D

Dude, anything old like that is probably a crap shoot. Take some pics so we can see what happens!
 

Wannafish

Floppy Member
SUPER Site Supporter
Mith said:
I spied some rods for various metals the other day, I think I'm going to liberate a few of each to try them out.

Does anyone have experience with stick welding any of the following materials? Anything to watch out for? (Toxic fumes was mentioned, can anyone confirm if any of the materials will give off dodgey smoke?) Copper, brass, cast iron, stainless and alley.

I have a DC machine, that I believe I need to weld those things? Or do they need to be welded on AC?

Thanks

If by "alley" you are referring to aluminum, then yes! The fumes are very hazardous. Make sure there is a fan blowing/sucking (how often can you say that here?:whistle: ) the fumes away from your face. Prolonged exposure can cause multiple health problems. The company I work for welds aluminum structures exclusively, and a lot of it. We try to emphasize the hazards that can be associated with welding aluminum to all of our welders.

"Neurotoxicants
Exposure to chemical substances can cause adverse effects on the nervous system (Neurotoxicity). Chemicals toxic to the central nervous system can induce confusion, fatigue, irritability, and other behavioral changes. Exposure to methyl mercury and lead cause central nervous system toxicity, and can also cause degenerative diseases of the brain (encephalopathy). Chemicals toxic to the peripheral nervous sytem affect how nerves carry sensory information and motor impulses from the brain to the rest of the body. The organic solvents carbon disulfide, n-hexane,and trichloroethylene can harm the peripheral nervous system, resulting in weakness in the lower limbs, tingling in the limbs (paresthesia), and loss of coordination."
http://www.scorecard.org/health-effects/explanation.tcl?short_hazard_name=neuro

One odd aspect of aluminum welding is you can have the prettiest weld that is substandard. If proper processes are not used you can drive the impurities into the weld causing it to fail under stress.
It is fun stuff to work with once you know how.

See also: http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=4511
 
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Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
Well I tried stainless and copper.

Stainless welds like steel, but boy does it look nice!

Copper, what a disaster. I only had thin walled tubing to weld on. I had to drop it to 20 amps to avoid melting the tube instantly, but the rod wasn't burning very well that low in the amp range. Need to find some bigger lumps of copper and try again.
When I did get a decent bit going it turned out nice though.
 
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