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Does this look like snow-trac undercarriage ?

sports850

Member
I am currently researching an Australian Antarctic division vehicle from the 1960's but only have a couple of photo's to go off and some memories from researchers and staff from the 1960's . Can anyone identify the undercarriage or parts of it from these photo's (a hard task I know) that are believed to be from a snow-trac and if so advise me where I could find drawings or manuals of the appropriate model snow-trac so I can try and figure out how it was configured . The mini that was converted looks to be a 1962/3/4 model (some identifying features were lost in the conversion) but I think it's a safe bet to say 1963 , one photo record suggests the photo was taken in 1965 so would be looking at parts being availible around then .

Thank's in advance
Ian

snow-trac.jpg


testing.jpg
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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The track itself looks like an early 2 belt Snow Trac track, but the wheels are wrong as is the suspension.

It is not possible to see much of the front drive sprocket. The That sprocket is NOT a late model Snow Trac sprocket, but it may be an EARLY model Snow Trac drive sprocket. It is not detailed enough to tell, and I think there is only a modest chance that it is an early Snow Trac sprocket.
 

sports850

Member
Ahh yes , I should have pointed out the wheels are mini wheels so I'm assuming they are attached to mini hubs/brakes as well . How much suspension travel would a light vehicle intended for arctic or antarctic travels usually have , could it be all three wheels are mounted on a rigid bar or would they be suspended ?

EDIT> It was suggested by a former ANARE that the tracks might have been "Snowtrack vari drive with its split V pulleys " but that may be a poor recollection after more than 40 years or a different vehicle altogether ?????
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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There is not a lot of suspension travel required, but you want some. Here are a couple views of my Snow Trac's suspension.

One of the problems with only having 3 wheels is that all the tracks pressure is centered at those 3 points, it would float over soft material better if the track had more wheels to better distribute the weight.
 

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sports850

Member
Thank's , so it's likely they had some suspension of some form then . A standard mini weighs around 500 kg's , guessing the extra wheels , tracks and whatever drive arrangment used would have added another 250kg's or so but it still should have been fairly light .

The sprocket may well have come from something else , the wheels (bare rims) on a mini are 10" in diameter and the drive sprocket looks to be slightly larger (say 12" diameter) so could have come from a local agricultural use rather than a proper snow-trac component . Clutching at straws I know but nothing is known about it .
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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The biggest question I have is how they regulated the power to each track. Did the Mini-Trac have a steering wheel or have control levers?

A photo of the inside might tell us a lot more than a photo of the outside.
 

sports850

Member
Unfortunately no photo's of the interior are known to exist , either in the govt or ANARE archives and I'm still waiting on personal photo's from former ANARE staff . Someone who saw it in 1965 thinks it was controlled by levers and not a steering wheel but he's not entirely sure himself . I'm currently tracking down the owner of a panel shop (??? We'd call it a panelbeater's not sure of you're term but somewhere they fix panels and build or convert bodies) who did some or most of the conversion work but nothing yet .
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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If it is controlled by levers then it is probably a brake steer unit, which would make a lot of sense based on the size of the unit and presumed placement of the seats. The Snow Trac steering/power system requires a fairly large steering belt arrangement called a Variator to be mounted behind the engine but in front of the steering system and I just don't see that the Mini would have enough room for that under the hood.
 

sports850

Member
That was my thoughts as well . Basically a mini has a transverse (east-west) engine with the gearbox and diff mounted in the sump using the same oil as the engine . The diff is a little off center but almost directly below the rear edge of the bonnet and the outputs are around 12" apart . I had assumed (no proof whatsoever yet) that a chain or belt drive was taken from each diff output shaft and run forward to a shaft mounted on bearings with a drive sprocket for each side . This would explain the mini wheels and hubs as well as all 3 hubs could have working brakes to provide a skid steer arrangement . All that would be required then would be to remove the brake pedal/master cylinder , fit 2 master cylinders on the floor , each operated by a lever and the engine driven normally by the clutch , accelerator and gear stick . Some of the retired ANARE members that I've spoken to have suggested that it suffered a failure of some form which could be attributed to such a basic setup causing diff problems .
 

couchloafer

Member
SUPER Site Supporter
That sure looks like a Snow Trac early two belt track too me, and I do have one.......it also appears to have the original bent tube track cover supports...............wish I could see the sprockets better though
 

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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Looks like an ST7 or something like that. Definitely a superior, more advanced model than some of the clown cars around here. :rolleyes:
 

couchloafer

Member
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Hey Bob thought you would be chasing that Krusti on Ebay instead of lurking here.............. the new guy doesnt warrant any abuse yet
 

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
GOLD Site Supporter
Heading to eBay...

Oh yeah. One of the two Byron was selling. Wants ~5K. If I didn't already have one, might try for it. Since I already have one, not worth 5K to me.
 
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sports850

Member
That sure looks like a Snow Trac early two belt track too me, and I do have one.......it also appears to have the original bent tube track cover supports...............wish I could see the sprockets better though

Would it be possible to get some good photo's and measurments of the tracks emailed to me ? No rush , whenever you get around to it . The tracks I can see are similar to conveyor belt material but what metal are the crosspieces made of ?


Further to the earlier post , this is a photo of the engine bay of one of my mini's ,
sports850engine.jpg


and photos of the motor for another of mine almost ready to go in , the diff is right at the lower back , partly hidden by the bend in the exhaust manifold .

rear.jpg


front-1.jpg


Everything is a tight fit around the engine though there is room for a belt or chain drive to be taken from the diff to an idler and then forward to the drive sprockets .
 

Snowcat Operations

Active member
SUPER Site Supporter
Looks like an early Snow Trac front drive set up to me. The front drive sprockets are for sure Snow Trac. The rest looks like a pretty smart way to adapt tracs to a mini cooper! I would say the variator is under that hood too. CAN we get pics?
 

sports850

Member
CAN we get pics?


if I can ever find any pics or explanation of how it was made I'll post them here but so far there's not much availible (the pics in here are basically it ) .

Any pics or dimensions of "an early Snow Trac front drive set up" to see if it will fit in the availible space ?
 

MNoutdoors RIP

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
There is not a lot of suspension travel required, but you want some. Here are a couple views of my Snow Trac's suspension.

One of the problems with only having 3 wheels is that all the tracks pressure is centered at those 3 points, it would float over soft material better if the track had more wheels to better distribute the weight.

Bob, looks like you may need to do some spring touch up on all that rust or is just from lack of use? :yum:
 

sports850

Member
There are some Snow-Trac manuals here

Thank's , I've looked through the 1963 manual and have a couple of questions if anyone can clarify it for me .

Does the variator work as a form of brake by limiting the power from one side of the diff to the other , or does it transfer the power from one side of the diff to the other without the diff doing the work ? That probably sounds confusing but what I mean is does it work as a brake steered machine with the diff putting the drive power to the side that hasn't got the brake on , or does the variator somehow activate the drive power to that side ?

Can someone please get me a measurment from the side of the gearbox/diff housing to the drive chain at the end of the "drive shaft bearing cup" and also the "front axel bearing cup" (just a roughish measurment , to the nearest 1/2" will be fine) . This will tell me whether it is physically possible to mount it all below the mini engine or not . If it's possible to fit it then they could have used either but if there just isn't room then it would have been lever controlled brake steering from a seperate brake system or the mini wheels/hubs in the tracks .

Thank's
Ian
 

sports850

Member
That's great , thank's for the link . That answered my questions about the drive so now if I can find anyone who'd driven it I'll be able to figure more out . So far I've heard "You're too late , Joe drove that and he'd be able to tell you all about it but he died 4 years ago " 3 or 4 times .

I'm really leaning towards it being a basic lever controlled brake steered track systeem with only the drive sprocket and tracks from the snow-trac , everything else custom modified .
 

sports850

Member
Well I've just received 15 seconds of video of the mini-trac driving from a current Antarctic Division worker . Qualities a little scratchy (taken from super 8 movie film) but you can clearly see the mini-trac being steered by 2 brake levers sticking just above the dash height . It's running straight till the driver pulls the left lever and it turns left so I'm assuming it's just a basic brake steer setup . I've also located a relative of the builder of it so hopefully I'll be able to talk to him soon .
 

sports850

Member
When I manage to convert it from the VHS tape to a windows file I'll put it in here , it was posted to me by the guy who has had his old super 8 converted to video .
 

sports850

Member
WOOHOO , The builder of it has contacted me and is happy to talk to me about it so I will be ringing him tomorrow and hopefully be able to put some answers up here about the design and workings of it soon after .:dancing: :thewave: :dancing:
 

sports850

Member
Well I spoke to the builder tonight , as well as making at least 4 mini-tracs (he can remember where 4 of them went but could be more) , he imported snow-trac chassis with porsche engines and fitted bodies to suit antarctic conditions and also nodwell chassis which became articulated trucks . The mini-trac was mini engine powered and brake steered by the rear wheel on each side , the other two were just idlers .

Now to write an artical.
 
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