• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Convertible freight trailer on skis project-Help

mikemikelle

Active member
After many hours of looking for the right freight hauling setup, I gave up and went to the drawing board.. We use our cat for cabin access, and are going to be needing it for hauling building materials as well, in order to extend the building season.

Needed something lite, tough, large enough to really haul, yet small enough to get on the ramp trailer with the Imp. Also wanted it for potentially hauling friends, dogs, friend's dogs, kids, grand kids, snowblowers, broken snowmobiles, running snowmobiles, etc. etc.

After more thought, need it for hauling fuel oil, so a transfer tank is in the plan, and also need it after the snow is gone, so trailer axle and wheels is also in the mix.

Below is a sketch of what I came up with, and progress pics. (Can't seem to figure out how to put photos within my text??)

Now that I am underway (Too far to turn around), I have a concern. The skis are approx. 10"x 66", so fairly large. My worry is the large surface area (much like a really large tire) and the sideways strain of turning it in wet snow. The axle is a 2000# (1 3/4"). I guess it is similar to a Tucker pontoon being mounted to a straight axle, only the bearings are not the size of a Tucker. 1320 Sq. In. of float and only 300# of constructed weight means only .22 PSI, and with freight, say .66 PSI on a heavy day, so pretty good flotation.

The question now is do I have a problem? Thought of maybe running a diagonal arm from the ski tip to the center of the axle, so sharing the same pivot point. Can't think of another way since the ski is mounted to the axle hub, and needs to be able to pivot at that point.

The overall width is well within the tracks of my wide track Imp. The skis will be skinned with 1/2" UHMW, so really slick. The deck is all aluminum Perf-O-Grip, so really light.

What you engineers think? Thanks for looking
 

Attachments

  • Scan_20180123.jpg
    Scan_20180123.jpg
    54.3 KB · Views: 639
  • 20180123_173746.jpg
    20180123_173746.jpg
    127.2 KB · Views: 647
  • 20180122_185644.jpg
    20180122_185644.jpg
    118.4 KB · Views: 637
  • 20180119_133626.jpg
    20180119_133626.jpg
    139.1 KB · Views: 636
  • 20180115_091349.jpg
    20180115_091349.jpg
    97.5 KB · Views: 650
  • 20180111_124639.jpg
    20180111_124639.jpg
    91.6 KB · Views: 641
  • 20180122_185815.jpg
    20180122_185815.jpg
    121.3 KB · Views: 629

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have rented a ski trailer several times. It was built extra strong and may not be far from your home.
See my wood haul posted pictures.
Jim
 

mtncrawler

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'd put some scags running the length of your skis or it's going to want to go sideways on a side hill. I've also noticed when pulling a dead cat with a tow bar they really push hard behind you going down a hill and want to jack-knife more than you would think. Unless you have almost level road be careful with that 1404. A couple loops of chain you can slip over the front of the skis to induce drag when needed might be a good idea.
 

mikemikelle

Active member
Thanks for the thoughts/ideas.

Tongue weight-

The axle location does look far back, in compact mode (see drawing), but is at proper 60% when expanded to hauling mode. That being said, I won't be hauling huge loads (weight wise), and I'll need to load appropriately, both for balance and 1404 considerations.

Skegs/Chains-

I have UHMW for the ski bases, and was mounting UHMW ribs for skegs for side slip prevention, and to serve as a wear strip for inevitable asphault, etc. I really like the ides for chains underneath to add downhill friction. Wonder what they'll say when I ask for those at Les Schwab?
 

4TrackCat

New member
Site Supporter
Thanks for the thoughts/ideas.

Tongue weight-

The axle location does look far back, in compact mode (see drawing), but is at proper 60% when expanded to hauling mode. That being said, I won't be hauling huge loads (weight wise), and I'll need to load appropriately, both for balance and 1404 considerations.

Skegs/Chains-

I have UHMW for the ski bases, and was mounting UHMW ribs for skegs for side slip prevention, and to serve as a wear strip for inevitable asphault, etc. I really like the ides for chains underneath to add downhill friction. Wonder what they'll say when I ask for those at Les Schwab?
Just go buy two 12" lengths of chain at any hardware store then tack the ends together to form 2 looks of chain. On steel hills, loop a circle of chain over each ski tip and tow away. It works great. Another option that is lighter, quieter and won't scratch stuff is using old snowmobile drive belts. Probably free from any dealer. Same idea and in my opinion, creates even more drag due to the shape of the belt. They are very tough and will not break.
 

undy

New member
A couple loops of chain you can slip over the front of the skis to induce drag when needed might be a good idea.

When I've skied out of Salt Lake City, we catch a city bus up one of the canyons. Those buses have chains for the rear duals which they can deploy automatically with the pull of a dash lever. (In that case, the chains are let out from between the duals.)

Perhaps a person could build some chain loop that could be deployed over the front of the skis via an actuator (electric or hydraulic or ?) to work as a brake?
 

mikemikelle

Active member
UHMW skins mounted and bent to the ski frames

20180211_195019.jpg

20180212_082304.jpg

Sacrificial skegs/skags (whatever they're called?) mounted to the bottoms for side slip prevention

20180212_155835.jpg

20180212_155845.jpg

Skis done!!

20180212_155939.jpg

20180212_155954.jpg

20180212_160004.jpg
 

BearGap

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
We used these chain brakes on ski patrol tobaggans all the time on steel icy slopes. Works awesome and easy to keep out of the way when you don't need them.
 

Attachments

  • image001.jpg
    image001.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 392

mikemikelle

Active member
For those of you trying to put the brakes on my project (you know who you are!), here ya go.... :pat:

20180213_195817.jpg

Snowmobile belts it is!! Thanks for the great idea

20180213_200617.jpg

Made the notch slightly narrower than the belt, and ground a small area of belt for install/removal


20180213_201913.jpg

Belt stores nicely between the rails too

20180213_201909.jpg

Put one on the back also, to use as a parking brake when unhooking the trailer

20180213_201917.jpg

Simple, clean, cheap (free), and non-scratch. If needed I could install some bolts for icy stuff

20180213_201924.jpg

Thanks again for the input
 

4TrackCat

New member
Site Supporter
For those of you trying to put the brakes on my project (you know who you are!), here ya go.... :pat:

View attachment 96151

Snowmobile belts it is!! Thanks for the great idea

View attachment 96152

Made the notch slightly narrower than the belt, and ground a small area of belt for install/removal


View attachment 96153

Belt stores nicely between the rails too

View attachment 96154

Put one on the back also, to use as a parking brake when unhooking the trailer

View attachment 96155

Simple, clean, cheap (free), and non-scratch. If needed I could install some bolts for icy stuff

View attachment 96156

Thanks again for the input
Perfect!
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
hanging up or hitting roots with the ski puts lots of stress on your cat.down the road you may want a spring in the hitch like the military trailers and sleds and solid skis to the frame. i can see the axle being bent or damaged springs if loaned out and overloaded.
i haul firewood every year and post pictures in a 12' ski trailer and felt it shake my pistenbully.

a light trailer like that you may be fine
i don't think anyone is trying to put brakes on your project. remember you asked for help
jim
 
Last edited:

mikemikelle

Active member
Progress, though mother nature is conspiring against me-

20180218_084406.jpg

We got 6" of snow, and I didn't see it in the forecast! 2 canopies toasted

20180218_084343.jpg

20180219_074512.jpg


The hitch carrier is one I built for the jeep, but additionally fits the cat or the trailer. Below is a photo of it with the cooler

20180219_074534.jpg

The pulling hitch is stowed in the upright position in this pic. A smaller hitch allows it to fit behind the Imp on the ramp trailer.

20180219_074556.jpg

DSC04038.jpg
 

mikemikelle

Active member
Thanks guys!
Means a lot when your peers notice.

I am a custom home builder by trade (Specialize in lodge styled stuff). Lifelong wood worker, but metal work is more of a hobby. Think I got a mig/plasma about 10 or 12 yrs ago.

Everything crosses over, though. Skills you learn in one medium carry over to the others. Just have to practice the new technique.

Think I'm really lucky in that I'm able to picture things. Always trying to learn new skills. Built all sorts of crazy things

Still lots to eventually learn , though. A few to tackle still:

Never have done engine work, transmissions, rear ends, etc.
Never have learned machining

....and white water kyaking

Did I mention my A.D.D...:wink:
 

mikemikelle

Active member
Trailer fab done, painted, and time to check the fit on the ramp trailer, before I get all the small details done. Better to know now if something needs tweaking. Going to haul the trailer up to the property for "snow trials". Hoping it all works as intended.

20180310_130241.jpg
20180310_130300.jpg
The trailer has 3 modes (hence the "convertible" title)

1) Compact mode- For fitting on, and hauling on the ramp trailer with the cat. This uses the "short" hitch, which is placed in the receiver backwards, and wraps back under to the front, allowing up-close proximity to the cat. You can still get in the back door of the cat, and you can still turn slightly while positioning during loading.

2) Hauling mode- Either 6 ft length (folded up) or 9ft length (folded down into a flat deck). This involves replacing the "short"hitch with the vertically stowed "long" hitch. Later on I'm going to incorporate a snap-on seating bench (against the upright back 1/3 of the deck), this will be for extra seating/sleigh rides (snow cat rumble seat).

3)Ramp mode- The back 1/3 of the deck can be dropped down to a 22 degree ramp, and rests on large rubber bump stops. For hauling snow blower, quad, snowmobile, etc. (sorry, no picture yet)

20180310_130310.jpg

Have all the Perf-O-Grip deck panels done, but still needed to finish securing them, so they were left at home.

20180310_120719.jpg

20180310_120744.jpg

The picture below shows "Hauling" mode (6ft), with the "long" hitch installed. (over 90 degree of turning clearance due to length).

20180310_182041.jpg

Trial by Fire- The snow conditions were less than ideal. I expected a bit more snow. The unexpected melt off turned the 4 mile approach road into a quagmire. My 10,000 lb truck, and combined 5300 lb trailer load were not going to make it. Had to unload the cat, and start a real-life worst case scenario for the actual maiden voyage. I was intending on putting it to the test, but slowly (It's always tough that first time you're going to hammer a freshly painted project. OUCH!!) Felt like one of you Tucker-ites after freshly painted pontoons!!

Hammer I did! Combined several miles of gravel, mud, wheat stubble with plow mounds, ice, rocks, some snow, but overall a true workout. Lots of turning to try and stay on snow patches, and all done at normal travel speed.
Trailer pulled perfectly. Didn't even know it was back there (with an under powered Imp) Never bucked, never submarined, never jolted the cat. Granted this was done without a load, but any load will most likely be on better snow.

20180310_182117.jpg

20180310_185219.jpg

20180310_191505.jpg

20180311_122221.jpg

20180311_122201.jpg

Phew! I can now sleep!!
 

nikos

Active member
Just my opinion.
Mikemikelle You need a pair of mud - snow flaps.
You have done a great job.

Nikos
 

GMoose

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nice job, do they come in Frandee yellow? What is the function of the belts on the skis?
 

mikemikelle

Active member
do they come in Frandee yellow? What is the function of the belts on the skis?

They do come in Frandee yellow, but pretty sure the sticker shock will make you puke that same color!!!

As Cidertom stated, belts are for brakes. There is a bit of discussion on it earlier in the thread.

Thanks
 
Top