crank starting a snow trac

I saw (that is to say "felt") that I have the crank start nut on my snow trac's engine. This is a the nut on the end of the crankshaft that accepts a hand crank which engages a groove in the nut with a transverse pin. The nut has 2 ramped flanges on its perimeter that force the pin and crank out of the slot after the engine starts, thus saving teeth, fingers, or anything else that would otherwise get caught in the path of a rapidly spinning crank handle. Anyway, there's no better justification for having hand crank start capability than on a vehicle used off the beaten path in cold temperatures I think. Any snow trac owners out there crank start their vehicles? Me thinks I need to fab a crank handle and try it out.

I was poking around the web and found a few links regarding hand cranking VW engines:

http://www.vintagebus.com/busfaq.html#21

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/dic/c.php (look under "crank handle" and "crank nut" in the dictionary)

Happy Trails - Paul

PS I'm having a blast driving the snow trac, what a great machine!

The Crank handel is actually a VW part and came in a short version for Bugs that show up a Vintage VW Meets and a Rare optional Long handeled Crank that was for Transporters and Busses. One has to have the machine in a pretty good state of 'Tune' to use this feature. When the ST4 Owners association showed 6 snow trac's at the Northwest Vintage VW meet we initiated a "Hand Crank Competetion" that literally 'stold the show'. Earl, and Ron and I, were the original 3 members of the ST4 owners association (Now defunct) and we all were proficient at crank starting our machines. Most peope who own a VW with a hand crank, do not know how to use it. For starting a Snow Trac, ST4 or Trac Master we competed against the clock. First you have to get inside the machine and make sure that it's out of gear! This is Imparitive as one would stand the chance of being run over. (God forbid it should ever get away and drive over someones pride and joy restored 56' bug!) anyway, we had all made provisions to store the hand crank under the seat cliped to the side wall with some broom holders. Now that it's out of gear you need to turn the ingition to the ON position so that the idiot lights come on and there is power to the coil. Grab the crank, fiddle with the chocke and throttle.( It takes a few tries to learn where to set the choke and throttle according to wether the engine is cold or hot) Now you insert the crank and yank on it. Once it starts you close the hood and return the crank to it's storeage place. Earl and Ron and I could all do it in under 2 minutes. This big football player sized african american dude did it in about 1 minute and 20 seconds, everyone was thrilled especially him as he had never 'crank started' a vehicle before. I have on video hand starting a 1963 ST4 at Crater Lake National Monument, at about 7500 Foot altitude in record snows some 30 foot deep. Whats more is that it had the original, unrestored 1100 CC 40Hp motor. It was a little hot and required several attempts. >
Greese the Crank Pulley nut, do not lean into the machine when starting and make sure the handel is free to slide in and out. Unlike old cars and tractors with hand cranks, the VW is less likely to break your arm.

My 1956 Tucker Kitten also has a hand crank. The crankshaft has a angled slot nut, so when it kicks over the hand crank is 'released' or probably more like ejected! I have the hand crank but as it passes through a guide bracket forward of the radiator, the radiator is actually a hair lower than it should be, thus blocking the slotted receptor nut on the crankshaft. An earlier owner actually cut a rough hole in the lower sheetmetal shroud beneath the radiator so as to get the hand crank to go into the slotted nut. I've tried to hand start it that way but this hole is to loose to really spin the hand crank over effectively. I plan to lower the front bracket (some cutting torch and welding required) to realign this hand cranking system. Hopefully it'll work! It's just 10HP so it ought to.

I stopped hand cranking a vehicle after I parted (joyfully) with my Morris Minor Sidevalve (built in 1950)! I do not intend to start hand cranking my Snowtrac - if it won't start I shall call the AA (the Automobile Association) of which I am a member and have 'home start'!!

Is this what your looking for ??? It's from Lyndons Snow Master , now Mtntopper's Snow Master .

I took the picture when I visited lyndon last year in Washington .

Woohoo! Houston...we have lift off! Okay, maybe it's not really that exciting but it's great not having to depend on batteries.

I slapped together the crank shown this evening. Would have been very simple if the pipe I had in the scrap heap wasn't ever so slighty larger in diameter than I needed. I had to lathe an insert of slightly less diameter and joined it to the hollow pipe with liquid metal rivets. Anyway, it's not near as pretty as Lyndon's, and doesn't have the spring-loaded plunger but it works. I couldn't be bothered with waiting to bend the offset in the pipe for the handle before I gave it a try. I grabbed the end of the straight pipe with the vise-grips and it started on the 2nd crank. I was surprised how little effort it took. Oh, I had to remove the winch mount to access the "crank hole."

Thanks for all your input and thanks especially to Lyndon for the stories. They are very entertaining . Keep 'em coming. I'm not sure AAA will be able to save me where I go Anita. If I get stuck I just might find out how to use the helicopter hooks!

Is this Larry Blum's old ST4? If so it's the one in the first "Great Stories" that came from Prince Rupert BC. Can't miss that color of green.

My mistake: This is Chris's former "Rig". Before that it was at Bill's in Idaho, he sold it to a guy and the guy didn't like it and sold it back to him at which point he had the new cab fabricated. My buddie Earl and I both have pictures of this rig when it first arrived at Weiser at which point there were 2 identical machines, and it didn't have it's new cab. It had canvas! The guy who originally imported it from Brittan brought over 3 military ST4's, and a Volvo BV, and sold 2 of the ST4's thru Bill Guthrie. More recently he decided to sell his 3rd ST4 and ended up selling his Volvo BV to Chris.

Yep, this is indeed Kris's former rig. I got the same ownership history from him in bits and pieces. So Bill had the new cab fabricated? Whoever did it, it is clear that it was not their first rodeo. Very nice, solid, professional job on the cab. I still would like to get a civilian ST4 with an original sheet metal cab for restoration, but this cab is quite nice. It adds about 8" of height over the original canvas top so one hardly has to crouch very much at all to move around in there.

By the way, Kris kept his other military ST4 and it is green and has a newer canvas top.

mtmogs, if you get your snowtrac and want a metal top for it, I have the one that I am taking off mine (a tall cab) to replace it with a lower one. It will want restoring, but all the windows etc are complete, the door is cut off at the bottom as the electricity board (who originally owned mine) had fitted a 50mm ball hitch and the door would foul this. They probably had other reasons too, for shortening the door, perhaps to carry something long, but it could easily be remade.

I thought I had better add a picture of my snowtrac which we took last week when Phil delivered the 'new' top for mine. We balanced the 'new' top at the same height as mine on the bonnet and you can see how out of proportion the old high cab is!

Thanks Anita for the overture. It's a nice looking top that you have, but I think if I was to go the restoration route on this military ST4, then I think I would try to reproduce the original canvas as I assume you are doing. I am saving my pennies and will eventually get a second ST4 for a ground-up restoration. Conversely, I could use a second ST4 as the "beast of burden" and restore the current one to original military configuration. To that end, I'll be watching how your restoration progresses!

Many Thanks - Paul

PS I really enjoyed seeing all the great historical photos that you've posted recently. The history definately adds a dimension to these fine machines.

Ice Queen said:

I thought I had better add a picture of my snowtrac which we took last week when Phil delivered the 'new' top for mine. We balanced the 'new' top at the same height as mine on the bonnet and you can see how out of proportion the old high cab is!

Click to expand...

What a shame! Tall cab's a vertually non exsistant in North America. The fact is I've never seen one in the US,(Lower 48), Canada, or Alaska. Someone should snap this up.

I am not doing a canvas top! I can't tell you more at this point as it is top secret and if I told you I would have to kill you!! Anyone want a 'tall cab'?

Ice Queen said:

I am not doing a canvas top! I can't tell you more at this point as it is top secret and if I told you I would have to kill you!! Anyone want a 'tall cab'?

Click to expand...

Ok ! Now I got to know . Pleaseeeeeee tell me .I'm really good at secret stuff like that !! I won't tell nobody ,except whoever ask me

I wish we lived closer together .I would take that "Tall cab in a heart beat" In fact I would gladly take the whole machine ! Since it is so rare would not it be better to keep it stock and buy another one that has the shorter cab ???
If Lyndon is right , and I am sure he is, your machine sounds like it is a very rare version of a Snow Trac .

Tell you what . If we can figure out how to get it to California for a reasonable amount ,I'll buy it and then you can get one with a short top since there are a lot more Snow Trac's near you ,than out here in California.
Allen

Re: Tall Cab

They made plenty of Tall Cabs, it's just that none seemed to get imported to North America. There's sure to be one, what with a majority of the machines coming here, but I've only seen pictures of them and they were all in Europe and Scandinavia, Iceland & Greenland. > 2315 ST4's were built by AKTIV and Westermaskiner. A few more were built in scotland. So let's review: 550 to Alaska, over 500 to Canada to the telephone companies and some more to other Canadian Ski Areas, Power Companies and Airports, bringing the Canadian total to about 600+ machines, and another 600+ machines to the "Lower 48". 2315 -1750 = 565. And those are spread over Europe, Iceland, Greenland and Antarctica. All things considered Snow Trac's, Trac Masters, and Snow Masters are rapidly becoming Rare precious metal! >
I see that Tall cab has the rare little tear drop side light. It took me 25 years to collect a half dozen of these! They are made by the same german outfit, HELLA that made the rest of the VW parts, but as best as I've been able to determine they were never used on a VW Product. They are made of "UNOBTAINIUM".

I finally got the handcrank bracket relocated down a mear 1/4"(i.e. cutting torch and re-welded), but now the handcrank does clear the bottom of the radiator now and aligns perfectly with the crankshaft start nut. So after a spin or two, the '56 kitten fired up! Too cool. At 10 HP it wasn't too scary of an experience.

Upon closer inspection I realized that the '49 Tucker (95 HP) also has such a handcrank nut on the end of the crankshaft, but no front alignment bracket to hold the handcrank (which would need to be made as it would be much longer than the Kitten's). Does any Forum member have experience with hand cranking such a large HP unit?!

I know where a tall cab version up in Canada Lyndon. I tried getting it but he wouldnt budge!

Polar said:

So after a spin or two, the '56 kitten fired up! Too cool. At 10 HP it wasn't too scary of an experience.

Does any Forum member have experience with hand cranking such a large HP unit?!

Click to expand...

Good job! Nice not to have to rely on a battery. I have experience (a BAD experience) hand starting larger horsepower engines. I was in the process of putting on a new belt on the unimog and was turning the fan by hand..and the 84 hp diesel started! Took a chunk of skin off of my knuckle but could've been much much worse as the fan is steel, and not whimpy. Diesels only need compression and a bit of fuel to start!

I found that my Land Rover hand crank works perfectly in the Snow Master. I havnet really tried to start it with it yet (and cant since the engine is out) but will try when I put my new motor in.

Lyndon is pretty good at hand starting those vehicles.

I did not know that the side light was rare, will have to look after that, perhaps it will have to go on the new lower cab, as I don't know if has side lights. Can't think why you folks seem to like the tall cab as it looks SO UGLY, so out of proportion, Phil Chatworth described it as "an abortion" and personally I think he was pretty descriptive. I was told that it was to "accommodate tall men in hard hats" as my snowtrac was used by the electricity board. Tall cab anyone?