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Astro van cat conversion

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
The Vortec head swap to a 400 is not waaaaaay off the wall.....This swap has been done many times before.

The Vortec heads flow better and have a 66cc Chamber as opposed to the 76cc stock 400 head.
Stock pistons will come in at 9.5:1 Compression ratio.

The big deal is to add the 6 "Steam holes" in each head to match the ones in the block.

Not a big deal......I have done it years ago when we used 350 heads on the 400...

Not doing it will make a big overheating problem.

I am sticking with the stock 5.565" con rods (Cost) and stock type pistons.
ALSO
The later heads allow using the nice late model Serpentine belt drive system (That came on the used Vortec)

A couple outfits offer an intake manifold that accepts the Quadrajet Carburetor (QJets are my fav for good low speed response and they are not as fussy with carb icing as holleys)

Yessssssssssssss...FrankenCat

Nice thing about the Chevy Mouse motor.....you can mix and match until you are all warm and fuzzy.....

This engine will be a 406 cube torque beast.....and pretty much be limited to 4500 RPM MAX.....

I am thinking about setting up the tranny to operate as a manual select and not auto shift....Jury still out on that one.

A full manual shift kit is an easy thing to do...

With the 13.27 gears through the OC12 starting up under many conditions in 3rd gear in the TH350 will likely not be an issue.

Running full auto shift the tranny is going to go zip...bang..bang..bang into third gear with the super low ratio.

Testing will tell the story.....but with a max road speed of 12-15 MPH the picture is pretty clear....
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Good weather today so far.

Dragged the engine block outside and went after removing ALL the Core plugs (Freeze plugs) and the oil galley plugs.

Some other yahoooooo had been worrying on the galley plugs and had F'D up two of the square sockets in the 1/4" pipe plugs.
The one in the top of the LH deck was really messed up.

Took some patience and a bit of ELBOW Grease to get that bad boy out.

The front oil galley plugs almost fell out when I ran a piece of 3/8" rod down the galley and pushed on them.

I will stake the holes going back in......
I may add a small Allen Screw with the head slightly over the holes to keep the plugs from getting loose.
The hole is a touch too large for tapping to 1/4" NPT.

Takes very little to hold the plugs in.....but if one gets out....GAME OVER.....

There is also one down under the rear main cap that blocks the oil passage so oil flows to the filter and then reenters the passage above the plug.

This block is so grungy that every orifice must be cleaned out well.

The Freeze plugs were actually fine.
The coolant had been maintained well.
But ya can't see how they are.....and getting them out is a one way trip.....

This bad boy is now ready to head over to the machine shop and get tanked.
I have a set of Silvolite pistons I found online quite reasonably priced .030 OS.

I drove out the two end cam bearings....my driver is too short to try and get the center bearings out...let the shop do it before it goes in the tank.

I am quite pleased with what we have to build on.
I was nervous at first...but after getting into it and checking things out.....other than being dirty....actually very nice piece.
ALMOST get away with a fresh set of standard pistons....ALMOST.....a couple holes have some water etching in them.
Just can't do it.....

Fresh bores and pistons.....Sweet widdle mouse....

With the siamesed cylinders I am really thinking about opening the piston to cylinder clearance up a touch.

Stock is .0007" to .0021" On STOCK 350 this works.
One an engine that is going to be spinning 3500 RPM or a bit more on a steady basis....I am thinking .003" on the clearance.

I want a touch more on the bottom end too.

Gonna shoot for .002" to .0025" on the crank bearings.

Run a high volume oil pump too....standard pressure though.

Ahh yess...
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Fooling around with the Front oil galley plugs in the BLOCK later yesterday.

I picked through some left over plugs from previous builds.....the new plugs do NOT even tap into the oil galleys snug....let alone tight.

NOT going to fool with the cup plugs....
Going to tap the holes with 1/4' NPT (Same as rear plugs)
The only thing that's important is to tap slowly...checking the depth and make sure not to go too deep...

The plug needs to be tight as it approaches FLUSH with the block.

Too deep on the upper (Center) passage will result in the plug blocking the oil feed to the front cam bearing AND the front main bearing and rods.

Stick a small object (Drill or ???) up through the main bearing oil feed hole and make sure the plug does not obstruct the oil feed hole..

Add blue loctite to the threads JUST TO BE SURE THE LITTLE BUGGERS STAY PUT.

Out back the loctite will seal the threads up nicely and keep them from leaking too.

DO NOT USE ***RED***
You may want to get these out some time.....Red requires heat to remove .....The Allen plugs do not have a very large hex size.... Once you rip it out....then comes more work.


The internal plug in the pump feed passage is fine with the cup plug...This is a pressure balanced galley and so ...no worries.

A side note.

Any block coming down for a complete rebuild needs all these plugs removed to be sure all the skanky stuff is cleaned out.

An old dirty soldier like this 400 really needs to be cleared all the way...lest ye will have some crap wipe out a bearing......

THAT'S UGLY
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
OMG.
Jumping for joy.....GOT THE NEW "FrankenPan" for the Cat....Will fit any small block Chevy with two piece rear main seal.
3 gates, designed for "ROAD RACE" application.....7 quart capacity should be fine for a hobby cat.

Arrived about 30 minutes ago via FEDEX.....

Box was a tad thrashed....but the pan is fine

Lovely windage tray system too.

This will certainly help keep the oil in the sump.

Running 3500-to 4000 RPM at max road speed will churn a froth in the pan for sure......nice to be able to keep it controlled.

Well made too.
Drain plug on the RH rear,
Plugs for a flex dip stick on the LH SIDE....and a plug for oil temp sender or ??????

Getting at the drain plug will be tough.

Likely suck it out with a pump......
 

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Bobcatbob

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Engine looks like fun! Shot peen, hot bath and polishing.....good to go! Will you deck it yourself (seen that Bridgeport, pull out a big fly cutter)...?
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Thanks Bobcat

I have zero way to get anything as heavy as the block onto the Mill table.
There is a "Little machine shop in the woods" (Kenner's Auto) about 15 miles away ....he has a nice deck grinder that really does a spiffy job.

I use him for boring, decking, cam bearing installs and such.

I have the experience with all this stuff....just don't have all the tools.

I used to have a boring bar.....but the new machines that register off the mainline give a much better job.
He also has a sunnen power hone that gives a real nice finish.....

The decks on this block look pretty good ....while the block is in for boring and a couple trips through the hot washer I will have them check the decks with his big ground straight edge.

Unless we see an anomaly that screams loudly I want to leave the decks alone.

I have been doing all the snively prep work that just burns time and $$$$$$ getting the beast ready to drop off at Kenner's

Actually my mill is a tad small for handling a block.....Mine is a 9x42 I would want a machine about 2-3 sizes bigger with a much heavier spindle....

Just about done with the prep stuff.....Still need to worry the coolant drain plugs out of the sides of the block.....At least these are hex head plugs and can be wrangled with a wrench......I had a block years ago that some clown screwed in Allen head plugs and they were a beotch.

Ended up drilling them and they were still a fight......

So far this critter looks great.....

I will admit.....If it had not been for the fact that it came with an engine stand ....I may well have passed on it..

But for $50......and things seems to have ended well.

Crank was a boat anchor......the rods are at the shop now getting resized

Best engine blocks are OLD rusty used iron that has a bazillion miles and a butt ton of years on the clock.

If they are crack free and otherwise usable.....they make great foundations....the iron is done moving....and is fully normalized.

I'm starting to get excited now.

I unloaded the Vortec engine off the trailer yesterday.....(Snow coming and I want the Burb available)

Tried to remove the screw on fan clutch....it was a pain.....I need to get the proper holding tool for the pulley...

I will probably just make one.....
I have the big wrench the fits the clutch hub.....just could not keep the pulley from moving and the tool that is supposed to grab the heads of the 4 bolts that holds the pulley is not quite right.

I am thinking that a steel plate with 4 holes in it that will allow it to bolt to the pulley and a hole that corresponds to a hole in the AC bracket.....this will really tie that sucker down good so I can get some ooooomph on the wrench on the clutch.

The cost of the fan clutch if I mess it up is more than I paid for the entire engine......worth the time to do it right....

That big clutch and 11 blade fan is in great shape....I do not want to screw it up trying to remove it.....

My bet is that stuff is factory and has not been off since new.......
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
OMG.
Jumping for joy.....GOT THE NEW "FrankenPan" for the Cat....Will fit any small block Chevy with two piece rear main seal.
3 gates, designed for "ROAD RACE" application.....7 quart capacity should be fine for a hobby cat.

Arrived about 30 minutes ago via FEDEX.....

Box was a tad thrashed....but the pan is fine

Lovely windage tray system too.

This will certainly help keep the oil in the sump.

Running 3500-to 4000 RPM at max road speed will churn a froth in the pan for sure......nice to be able to keep it controlled.

Well made too.
Drain plug on the RH rear,
Plugs for a flex dip stick on the LH SIDE....and a plug for oil temp sender or ??????

Getting at the drain plug will be tough.

Likely suck it out with a pump......
If you plan on turning 4k with that motor don't forget the trailer with gas tanker on it. your looking at gallons to the mile. You will be burning north of 30 gallons an hour under full load. I had a small cabin cruiser with a 350, running 4k rpm would burn that much or more. Snow cats are like boats or a truck pulling a load uphill, the engine always has a load on it.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.

It's all uphill...no coast and that's how it is.

Probably limit normal cruise speed to 3000 (That's 10 MPH with the gearing this cat has)
5.44 R&P & 2.44 Drop boxes = 13.27 final drive

3000 rpm divide by 13.27= 226.07 axle rpm......12 tooth sprockets....4" pitch = 48" of track movement per revolution (No slippage)

226.07 axle RPM x 4' = 904.29 Ft per minute.ground speed.. divide by 88 (88 Ft per minute is 1 mph) final number = 10.276 MPH
Definitely not gonna set any world land speed records
2000 RPM= 6.8 MPH
3000 RPM= 10.2 MPH
4000 RPM = 13.7 MPH
5000 RPM = 17.1 MPH

Most cats of this vintage spec out about 12 MPH top speed.

Not going to be a fuel miser at all....
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Arrrrrrgh.
Snow is coming....and my cat it in pieces.....

By tomorrow we will have the white chit on the ground.
Spent several hours today getting hay in for the horses.
Dropped the snow poles down in the big arena (Center posts that can be tightened up under the king pins on the 60' wide trusses.)
But just finished dinner.....let it rip....

Not much cat stuff done today.....about all I got done was wrangled the block drain plugs out of the block.

Luckily they were 9/16" hex headed 1/4" pipe plugs...Took a breaker bar to get them to budge.....but they are out and the holes tapped to clean them up.

Block is nearly ready for the machine shop....
I want to tap the 3 front galley plug holes before it goes to the shop.....the wash all over will get rid of any crap....
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Sitting here nursing a cup A Joe....pondering the back half of the cat.

I had abandoned the Astro idea simply because I can't handle the entire body and lift it on the cat chassis.

The S10 was/is easy to handle.......
But the crew compliment is 2.

Adding the pickup box on the back is an option then put on a canopy....

What about taking an Astro and cutting the body off just at the front edge of the B pillar.....
Be rid of the entire front end and all it's weight.
Remove the rear axle and all the sub frame (Further lightening the beast)

Close in the NOW OPEN body at the B pillar.

Sliding side door.... Hatch or Dutch rear doors and two 3 places seating.

This much of the body will not weigh a lot and can likely be handled easily with my lifting rig used to lift the S10 cab......

If serious maintenance is needed the S10 cab can come off easily....and leave the Astro rear half...or vice versa.

A dead Astro should be easy to dig up......CHEAP......

This sounds like it might make the original idea possible.....

Just some thoughts........
 

PJL

Well-known member
Sitting here nursing a cup A Joe....pondering the back half of the cat.

I had abandoned the Astro idea simply because I can't handle the entire body and lift it on the cat chassis.

The S10 was/is easy to handle.......
But the crew compliment is 2.

Adding the pickup box on the back is an option then put on a canopy....

What about taking an Astro and cutting the body off just at the front edge of the B pillar.....
Be rid of the entire front end and all it's weight.
Remove the rear axle and all the sub frame (Further lightening the beast)

Close in the NOW OPEN body at the B pillar.

Sliding side door.... Hatch or Dutch rear doors and two 3 places seating.

This much of the body will not weigh a lot and can likely be handled easily with my lifting rig used to lift the S10 cab......

If serious maintenance is needed the S10 cab can come off easily....and leave the Astro rear half...or vice versa.

A dead Astro should be easy to dig up......CHEAP......

This sounds like it might make the original idea possible.....

Just some thoughts........
I have a pic of an Astro grafted onto a Spryte. I'll post it when i get home tonght.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Ooooooohh
Sweet.

This idea will likely be the easiest and least costly method to get a comfy rear cabin.

Ready made.....Close in the front ahead of the B pillar...add a slider window to match the one in the S 10 Cab.

All the wiring is already in the rig for the rear lights.
Easy to add a stand alone heater if the rear does not have one.....
Put an after market heater under a seat...

I plopped an ad on Craigs list...see what shakes.

Somebody has one in their yard that they want gone.........
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Well now.....

I measured an Astro up and even with the front gone.....the package is waaaaaaay too long.
Another S10 cab of the same vintage and mount it backwards on the Cat chassis is gonna be the best choice me thinks....
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Weather dudes laid it on us with possibly 2 feet of snow.....

OK
The Son in law was handy so we set the safety poles in the Arena.
Back in 2008 we had nearly 4 feet of snow on that roof and it held.

Every other arena in the area went flat...

Takes about an hour to unhook the poles and swing them down.
Then lay down some 2 x 12 on the dirt and wedge things up tight.

We put the poles under (Or nearly so) the trusses king pin.....
The holding capacity soars with this trick.


After doing the math on what sort of weight was on that roof back in 08 it is scary.

A couple really lovely barns were destroyed in 08.....

It did not have to happen.....a couple hundred bucks and a bit of time rigging things
 

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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
PJL
Thanks for posting the piccy.

My biggest issue is that the S10 cab is sitting nearly in the same location as the factory 2100 cab ..."Midship"
The Astro from the B pillar to the bumper is 105" long..... I have about 55" from the back of the cab to the rear of the frame on the 2100.

Having that much extra overhang is not going to work out....

The idea was good....just the realization is not workable.

I stuck an ad on Craig's looking for another standard cab....I specified STD cab....So far 3 guys have called...everyone has the extended cab version. TOOOOOOOOOO LONG

I also asked for a junker NON runable....yada yada yada..... The cheapest offer was $3995.00 Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat????
Too many folks do not read ad copy before they grab the phone.


Ahhhh well.....Patience will yield something......
 

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
What about a truck sleeper, 56 or 60 inch? A stand up model wouldn't be bad. Aluminum so light weight, already insulated and basically finished inside, can remove the bed and have seats if that's ones desire, or have a bed along behind you. Buying one from the truck salvage can be a bit spendy, but take offs can be had pretty cheap at auctions or sitting around someone's truck yard.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
That might be a plan.
Never have those a thought.

Going to have to do some snooping on that.

Mount the cab opening to the rear and add a door facing rearward.

Maybe make this a Veranda Cat...walk down the tracks and around back
 

m1west

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
That might be a plan.
Never have those a thought.

Going to have to do some snooping on that.

Mount the cab opening to the rear and add a door facing rearward.

Maybe make this a Veranda Cat...walk down the tracks and around back
You still have the original 2100 cab, that would fix a lot of problems
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
I sold the 2100 cab......
The thought of using it was on the table for a time...
Just did not like the single door access and a few other things about that cab.....

I think that from an aesthetics point of view.....using a second S10 cab and sitting it on backwards (Suicide doors) will look good and will allow symmetry in parts and also I will be able to use the same cab lift rig to handle it.

The cab mounting can remain nearly identical to the forward unit.

Just gut the cab....pull out all the dash and other unnecessary parts and make use of the room .....maybe a tool box or ???? on that end of the cab.

Would be cool to be able to have both cabs facing the same way.....sadly the rear cab will be far enough back over the tracks that ingress and egress will be a real pain...

I have a 10" wide catwalk that I plan on using as a step up off the tracks.
These will fit on a mount that slides into the box tube under the cab......Very easy to just make these steps longer and span both cabs......Or make the steps an individual item....

OMG......So many possibilities .......

Right now we are getting our AZZ kicked with an ice storm......
Poor FrankenCat is coated in an icy cocoon .......

So far...4 respondents on my want ad for an S10 cab.....(AD READS Standard cab only......)

All four have offered nice clean trucks at car lot prices......


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat......I want a dead one that needs to be hauled off...... not a driver for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yeah... well the ideas are all appreciated......in do time something will click together.
 

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Maybe cruise the scrape yards that take cars, leave your number to call if they get an s10 comes through. Eventually a scrap yard sees everything.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
We have a PICNPULL 10 miles away.
Unless it's a "Builder" they will not sell the cab.

Gotta buy the entire unit and they generally want $$$$$$$$

I did call them up and ask about such.

They currently have several rigs that would be perfect.....but once they are in the yard......only parts can be pulled.
They will smash the cab rather than sell it.....
Reason...It has the VIN ##### and unless it is sold with the title it becomes an issue I guess.

But if they sell it as a Builder with a Salvage title ....different story....
I did this back a few years with them.....

A complete cab is not in the offing....
Local Pic N Pull has been great for parts......but they have rules that ya just can't get them to break.

I could care less about all the extra crap....Engine, frame yada yada yada....but that always seems to be the way it happens.
 

1boringguy

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yea I was thinking more of the scrape iron yards where they just crush them. Have buddy who has a couple yards and they let people get parts. Didnt think about title issues ?
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Yeah me too.

The big scrapper that crushes in this area also owns the Pic N Pull yards.....handy eh????
State of Oregon is tight on titled items just getting let loose without a paper trail....
Doors, fenders, box, frames....and all that stuff is OK...But that all mighty Vin #### ...THEY WANT THAT KEPT TRACK OF UNTIL IT IS ground up and accounted for.

Their rules on selling cabs still applies.....only as a salvage title deal for a complete.

When the yards have an amount of hulks that are picked over they fire up the crusher and mash them right on site.
Then they haul them to the smelter and toss them in the grinder.....from there they head to various foundries.

I still think the best way is a private treaty.

Nice thing about this issue now....the build can proceed ...and even up to having the machine operable....
I would just like to get a cab in my hands so I can locate it on the chassis and do all the drilling and any fab work before I paint the tub.
Paint is gonna be a rattle can job.....so this is not a deal breaker.....

Haaaaa
Just got a text a second ago....Guy has a 2000 pickup....Ext cab 4x4 nice runner.....for $5000
Another one that can't read ad copy.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Power back

48 hours in the dark...

Ran the 4000 watt gen set to keep the place warm

A buttload of trees took out power lines.

Back up at 4:30 this afternoon.

Shower, dinner and some online time......yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...
A plus though.
The bearings I ordered for the 400 engine showed up on the little brown truck this afternoon......

Tons of crap to clean up from the storm....

Hope Y'all are doing well.
This nasty storm appears to be hitting a lot of folks....

Be safe crew.....
 

PJL

Well-known member
Your neighbors to the north didn't get it as bad. I had drifts of about a foot to shovel off on Saturday. It's all rain now.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
East Portland got slammed...They always do.
We had about 5 inches total accumulation....mostly ice.
Really made a mess of things.

We are about 4 miles from downtown Newberg.....on Chehalem Mt.
We get a fair amount of influence from the gorge winds as we are on top of the hill with a view both south and north....We can see Mt Hood off the deck to the east.

Glad this crap is gone.
But we have the old 4x4 Burb and the Avy is a 4x4.

Damned glare ice sucks though.....
During the worst of it we had one of the old horses in the barn take sick.

Always seems that when its froze to hell and the power is off a critter gets sick.

Never fails...Well tanks are always just ready to turn the pump on and poof...power goes out.
We have a 250 gallon static storage tank in the barn for emergencies....but it froze.

We are gonna move that tank and insulate it before next winter.

We sure could have enjoyed the cat though.....ahhh well.

Horsie is on the mend now....Cold and her eating habits fouled her up...
32 years old....still pretty spunky...but fragile.
 

Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Well....a bit of news that pertains to the cat project.

The con rods for the 400 engine are almost complete as of yesterday morning.

The screw on fan clutch removal tool I ordered last week showed up yesterday.

Now I can get the fan off the Vortec engine....

These screw on fan clutches can be a PITA to remove without the tools.....No sense in ruining a clutch that will cost more than I paid for the engine to replace it by being rough on it.


Carry on troops
Be safe out there in Cat land.
 
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Snowy Rivers

Well-known member
Still around.
Off onto cleaning up the mess from the ice and snow and getting better prepared for the next nasty weather event.
Weather is still wretched outside...Not much gonna happen until we get some decent working weather.
 
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