telephone & electric service lines

I'm having a portion of my driveway concreted. I'm also installing a drain to take the water away from the concrete and the house. To do this I have to cross over where my electric and phone lines are buried. I know where the lines are, but do not know the depth. I vaugley remember the builder digging the trench for the electric service and I belive it is 24 inches deep (or close). What are the chances the phone line is in the same ditch?
If the phone is not in the same ditch would it at least be inside some conduit? I"m worried about cutting through it. I'm sure my electric service is in conduit, and I only need to go 10 to 12 inches deep.
Any ideas on how to best to accomplish this?

I called the utilities and they put me in touch with a service that can locate the lines. I KNOW where they are, just not the depth. So they were of no help at all.

If you know where they are, why not take a shovel and dig down until you find it and take a measurement?

Chances are the phone is in the same ditch but it's rare to see it in conduit.

Just be careful. We put in a gravel play area last month. i knew a couple of cables ran through the area but we were only going to stay on the surface. I found both the cable tv and the phone lines when we stripped the sod. Cable tv about 2 inches and the phone really deep, almost 4 inches. Very lucky we didn't slice the cables.

Jim

PS. When I put concrete on my driveway, prior to pouring I ran a couple pieces of 1" sched-40 pipe under the concrete. It starts about 1' away from the foundation wall of the house and crosses under the driveway.

At the time, I didn't have a need/use for it but put it there "just in case". Subsequently, Mrs. Zoom wanted those low-voltage lights run. That conduit proved to be very valuable afterall.

Just something to consider.

bczoom said:

If you know where they are, why not take a shovel and dig down until you find it and take a measurement?

Chances are the phone is in the same ditch but it's rare to see it in conduit.

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That is what I plan to do tonight. I was hoping to hear they use conduit for phone lines also. A shovel will cut right through that flimsy wire. It's gonna be tedious ...and in the end I'll probably cut through it anyway.

Rarely did we ever put the telephone in conduit. It was always suggested but was always cut out because of a few bucks.
It's likely they are in the same trench. I would hand dig as much as possible in the area.

I have numerous lines buried on my property. Other than the electric, phone and gas to the main house, I've run all the other lines. I ran a 2 1/2" water line back to my house where it splits and runs a 1" to my barn and a 1" to my pool house before going into my house. At 60 psi, I have no issues with water pressure or volume. None of the utility companies here run electric lines are conduit. None. They are all direct bury lines that are about 36" deep, and I have 600 amp service. All the electric from my house going to my pool house and to my barn are in conduit since I ran those lines. I also have electric and phone lines going from my barn out to my dock and out to the island in my lake. They too are in conduit.

My phone lines are not run in the same trench as my electric lines from the utility companies and the gas is even in a different trench. I ran two conduits from my house to the barn, from my house to my pool house, and from my barn to my dock with electric in one conduit and the phone and cat. 5 networking and coax security camera cables in the second conduit. If you run your security camera coax in the same conduit as the electric, you get a 60 hz hum and noise. The same goes for phone lines. For phone lines I also used all cat. 5 cable. You can have 4 separate phone lines with the one cable or have spare sets if you have less than 4 phone numbers run with the cable. The cat. 5 cable didn't cost much more than regular 4 wire phone cable anyway. I get zero noise on my phone lines with the twisted pairs in the cat. 5 as where I always seemed to have some noise at times with regular phone cable.

Your only real choice on locating your lines is to call and have the utility company come mark them and then break out the ole spade and dig down and find them by hand. Have fun.

OhioTC18 said:

Rarely did we ever put the telephone in conduit. It was always suggested but was always cut out because of a few bucks.
It's likely they are in the same trench. I would hand dig as much as possible in the area.

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Yep, thats what I'll do. Just take er slow. I hate manual labor when I have a tractor just sitting able to do the work. ....at least it can do the majority of the job. I have to run the drain line about 120 feet.....and I have to cross my gas line also. I have a good idea of where it is, but it's going to take some hand digging to find it also. Think I'll wait till it cools down later this evening to tackle the hand digging parts.

Whoa Brent, sounds like you have wires and stuff running every which way. I'm getting there but not near as many as you described.
The gas line is mine, so the utility companies can't help there.

I have a few things planned (power to my pole building and an additional 3 stall garage) and all the stuff that needs buried for each can be a nightmare to layout where one is not in the way of the other. Just trying to do it one step at a time. I'm already considering rerouting my gas line.

Dargo said:

I also have electric and phone lines going from my barn out to my dock and out to the island in my lake.

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OK Brent... I have to ask.

Why did you put a phone line on the island? I figured that was the place to go to get away from such annoyances...

Doc - I too run cat-5 for all my phones. I did put it in the same conduit as the ele. going out to my building. I don't have any interference.

bczoom said:

OK Brent... I have to ask.

Why did you put a phone line on the island? I figured that was the place to go to get away from such annoyances....

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Wife's gazebo. And, no, I haven't built it yet. Shhhhh!

bczoom said:

Doc - I too run cat-5 for all my phones. I did put it in the same conduit as the ele. going out to my building. I don't have any interference.

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Ah ha! When I first ran my lines I did not use cat 5, but regular phone wires. I'm told that the twisted pairs in the cat 5 do not pick up the 60 hz hum or buzz; part of the reason they are made that way. From what you said, it sounds like it works. Since I already had the conduits there, I just used the existing separate conduits when I switched to cat 5 just a few years ago.

Dargo said:

I'm told that the twisted pairs in the cat 5 do not pick up the 60 hz hum or buzz; part of the reason they are made that way. From what you said, it sounds like it works.

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Yep, it does work and that's why they're made that way.

I do a lot of work in hospitals and computer rooms. There's more cat-5 and power lines wrapped around each other and in all directions that they needed something to handle it.

Doc - Do you have a metal detector? It might be able to find the exact location of your phone line before your shovel does.

bczoom said:

Doc - Do you have a metal detector? It might be able to find the exact location of your phone line before your shovel does.

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Nope. That is one hobby I've never gotten into. Oh well, I'd probably get false readings and have holes all over the place.
The electric and phone are easy to find really. A little trench still exists where they were buried. I'm plannng to dig beside the trench and hand dig my way over to the phone wire. If it's over a foot down I might never find it ...and that's okay to.

Doc,

In my experience, in my area.....It is common place for power to be in sched 40 ug and sched 80 pipe stub outs from the meter to the pole or surface transfomer. I know this only because I have dug/had dug/participated in digging MANY 36" deep trenches for UG service as well as placing the pipe, which they provided. Usually in the building process the phone comes after the homeowner has moved in. This means that you'll find the phone lines about 8-12" below grade and this not in the same trench as well as not in conduit. You're gonna have to hand dig around the area to bypass it anyway so test the area in advance. Also, even though you know where the stuff is.....call the free locate service. It's FREE......

Having retired from the Phone company and having been a phone I @ R tech I can tell you that running any phone line in the same conduit as your electrical power line is absolutely a BAD idea! You think you have no problem. Just wait. When you start to hear a very loud hum on the line or your data speed isnt quite as fast as you think it should be thats only the begining. The lines are required for us at least to be installed 24" from the power line under gorund. NEVER in the same conduit. Cat 5 is a great idea as well. Just dont use the flat 4 wire phone cords suplied by most computer co. to connect it to you wall jack. Get the Cat 5 connectors as well. Outside in most ASI or the grey phone box that is usaully attached to your house. There were these little chips or cuicut boards attached to each line. They are about 1/2" wide 1-1/4" long and 1/8" thick. Remove these if you find them. They were installed years ago so the phone co could tell if you called in with trouble they could tell if the problem was in your house or in the plant. Those ended up being most of the problems anyway and are horrible for dial up and DSL comp lines (DSL wont work with these left on). For the fastest speed also run a single line or a direct run from your comp line to the ASI or the grey phone box. If you dont need any other lines for that particular number and its dedicated to the comp. then just run the one line. Cat 5 is best for residentail applications. Just a couple of tips.

ALWAYS CALL BEFORE YOU DIG! IF YOU DONT THEN YOUR AN IDIOT! JUST ASK THE GUY WHO CUT OUR FIBER OPTIC CABLE IN HIS BACK YARD. $275,000 LATER (AND HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE WONT COVER IT). THE BEST PART IS WHEN THEY RE-BURY IT THINKING NO ONE WILL KNOW! THE SERVICE FOR LOCATING ANY UNDERGROUND LINES IS "FREE". JUST MARK THE AREA YOU PLAN IN DIGGING IN WHITE SPRAY PAINT. THEY WILL COME OUT AND CHECK THE ENTIRE AREA AROUND IT. IF YOU DO HIT SOEMETHING THEN YOU ARE COVERED! CHECK YOUR PHONE BILL OR CALL THE LOCAL ELECTRICAL COMPANY FOR THE LOCATE NUMBER. iTS ALWAYS AN 800 NUMBER AND THEY WILL SEND ALL THE CORRECT PEOPLE.

Dang Snowcat, it sounds like you are just like my buddy the electrician who told me what to do when I built my house. Damn if he didn't "tell" me what to do rather than advise me. If I asked "why", I was afraid he'd hit me. His only concession from what you listed was that he let me put my 2nd conduit for my security cables, phone and internet 12" (as opposed to the 24" he wanted) from my electric conduit.

I wanted to do that to save time and mess. I trenched 48" deep at first and ran my 4" conduit for electric in the bottom. (Oh yeah, do you know how much fun it was to run 000 wire in a 4" conduit??) I then backfilled about a foot and then ran my 2" conduit for phone etc. on top. That way, even my phone lines etc. are still 36" deep.

This stuff really sucks in my yard because I not only have to cross my gas line, cable line, water line, but also my downspout lines and septic lines. I guess I ought to put down on paper where all these lines are. Believe it or not, I have them all memorized. I guess if I died and my wife re-married, he would be screwed every time he tried to dig anywhere. Heck, I even have two 6" pieces of PVC pipe dropping down to my 2 1/2" water main with shut offs. I figure that if I had to shut the water off to my main house I could still keep water to my pool house and barn or vice versa. It bothered me to think that if there was any water rupture that all water to my property would be shut off at the main road 1000' away.

Good advice to call the one-call service.....besides, it's THE LAW. When they locate your lines, there is a varience...I think 5' on either side of it. You'll have to hand dig that area until you find the lines, then you can use your backhoe to dig below and beside until the area is excavated. Watch the ground as you dig, if you see dirt being pulled rather than dug, you may have snagged a line. This really stinks in places with lots of trees because you don't know if you've caught a root or a line and you have to hand dig a lot of times before you find what you're looking for

If your gas line is metal, it can be easily located with a device that clips on the line by the house sending a low-voltage current through the metal line.

Phone and electric lines are almost always not buried in conduit. Take your time, that's the paramount here. When you get in a hurry, that's when stuff happens and it gets expensive.

Take care and be safe

I hear ya. And I called them, since it's the law. They asked for intersections, closest streets and other silly questions. I answered them all and asked how deep the utilities would be buried. They didn't know but said they would come out and show me where the lines should be. I already know that. We built on old farm land. It's a straight shot from the telephone pole to our electric / phone entrance to the house. But, I fullfilled my obligation to call.

We have a gas well on the property so the gas line is all my problem. The line is 1" plastic, but again, I know approximately where it is. The varience will be if the contractor didn't run in an exactly straght line for the ditch ....but I should be able to get close without to much trouble. I didn't get to it last night so it's on my agenda for tonight.

I got er done tonight. 75% success. I did not see the telephone line, electric line or the gas line. All were buried deep enough that I did not get down to them.
But .... I cut right through the invisible fence line. Worrying about the other lines I forgot completely about it. Duh! It is by far the easiest one to fix, but I can't believe I forgot it. I have aligator clips & a short section of wire on it as a temporary fix. Once the drain pipe is in I'll splice it properly.

Now I'm ready for the concrete work to start tomorrow.

The question, how could you see it, if was invisible?