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Reddog
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Knocker of rocks
Member
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Reddog
Guest
Next question is: What is it?
I remember several years back looking at a cat with JD power, can't remember what it was. This one reminds me of that one....
I remember several years back looking at a cat with JD power, can't remember what it was. This one reminds me of that one....
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Reddog
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Kool Kat
Kristi Kt-4
Member
I think the machine brand that you guys are thinking of is a Kool Kat. There have been a few different machines surface over the years. I was thinking that this machine was a Kool Kat modified so I contacted the owner. He believes it is an early 70's Thiokol. It is a hydro machine and everything works he said. Asking 7k obo
Here is a link from the forum.....
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=27113
Here is a link from the forum.....
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=27113
if it's a juice drive rig likely a 2500 early version of the 3700. the 2500 will have the same track pitch as the 2100 and sprite it is a custom cab with an engine relocation on it
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Reddog
Guest
The Kool Kat is the machine I was thinking or, but obviously not that same as this machine. Oddly, there was a Kool Kat sitting for sale right across the street from my shop back in 89 or 90. Given the scarcity of Kool Kats, strange coincidence that I have every actually crawled around on one,
Does anyone know what model Thiokol this might be? It looks to have joystick steering.
Does anyone know what model Thiokol this might be? It looks to have joystick steering.
Doug
That's the very one, I believe.
I was considering it when I first saw it, but then it disappeared from the ad I was watching. For the price, it seemed like a lot of machine. Around here, it's hard to beat John Deere.
Kristi Kt4,
Thanks for the link. That's a different one. Thanks for the background info on them.
That's the very one, I believe.
I was considering it when I first saw it, but then it disappeared from the ad I was watching. For the price, it seemed like a lot of machine. Around here, it's hard to beat John Deere.
Kristi Kt4,
Thanks for the link. That's a different one. Thanks for the background info on them.
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Reddog
Guest
Yeah Don, my thought was a modded 3700. I like Bowtie stuff, but this rascal is too wide for anything I would be doing.
Undy, small world, but given the scarcity of Kool Kats, stands to reason those looking will see the same machines.
So if it's hydro, why the auto tranny? And if brake steer, why the joystick??
Undy, small world, but given the scarcity of Kool Kats, stands to reason those looking will see the same machines.
So if it's hydro, why the auto tranny? And if brake steer, why the joystick??
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Alaska Snow Cat
Member
I definitely don't think it is a mod 3700. It has drop boxes attached to what looks like a differential? The wheels look like thiokol brand as does the dash/gags/switches. Maybe the joy stick is a hydraulic power brake control. Push left and it powers the left brake and right for right brake. The blade looks very similar to a Vally Engineering design that was used on early Pisten Bully with USA made hydraulics.
If I was to guess both this machine and the "Whiplash" we saw earlier this winter were prototypes or limited production of groomers made by Thiokol in the early seventies just prior to full production of the 3700 line which they made for many years in large numbers. Both Pisten Bully and Bombardier were also introducing large grooming cats to the alpine market about then.
I have seen a model 3300 and 3500 here in Alaska but there is little information about those available because I'm guessing they were limited production too. same with the 4700 model that was made in the 80s I believe.
If I was to guess both this machine and the "Whiplash" we saw earlier this winter were prototypes or limited production of groomers made by Thiokol in the early seventies just prior to full production of the 3700 line which they made for many years in large numbers. Both Pisten Bully and Bombardier were also introducing large grooming cats to the alpine market about then.
I have seen a model 3300 and 3500 here in Alaska but there is little information about those available because I'm guessing they were limited production too. same with the 4700 model that was made in the 80s I believe.
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Reddog
Guest
After looking at tons of pics yesterday, I am inclined to agree with ASC. The work involved to change a front engine rig to a mid engine rig would not only be significant, but have questionable benefit (considering the application). It's a little hard for me to get my head around some of these one-offs or prototypes that actually made it into service at some level. I suppose we are talking about relatively small manufacturers and low annual production. "Custom" rigs coming out of those plants would be more feasible that bigger operations.
The steering is still curious. Def needs to be brake steer with the tranny/diff setup it appears to have. I guess the hydraulic brake slaves could easily enough be replaced with small hydraulic cylinders and be actuated by a sidearm hydro circuit powered off of the transmission (or a powersteering pump) and a proportional spool. Actually kinda surprising that no one here (that I know of) has come up with a similar conversion, makes sense...but KISS works pretty well too...
The steering is still curious. Def needs to be brake steer with the tranny/diff setup it appears to have. I guess the hydraulic brake slaves could easily enough be replaced with small hydraulic cylinders and be actuated by a sidearm hydro circuit powered off of the transmission (or a powersteering pump) and a proportional spool. Actually kinda surprising that no one here (that I know of) has come up with a similar conversion, makes sense...but KISS works pretty well too...
Back in the late 70's,early 80's there was an outfit near Mccook Nebraska that was making a cat like that! They brought a demo machine to Waterville Valley ski area where i worked. It had a Combine style cab like that and a john Deere diesel mid engine. Maybe that braincell will kick in and i'll remember the name 
Don
Don
That braincell has some staying power.
Im still smiling about the vision it took to create snowcats in Nebraska..... Im sure there is a hill or two there but when I close my eye lids and check for holes while driving across that beautiful state all i see is the back of my eye lids, err I mean cattle and rolling farm land.
Cool cat (literally)
Im still smiling about the vision it took to create snowcats in Nebraska..... Im sure there is a hill or two there but when I close my eye lids and check for holes while driving across that beautiful state all i see is the back of my eye lids, err I mean cattle and rolling farm land.
Cool cat (literally)
Alaska Snow Cat
Member
Remember this was back in a period of time when big government was not interfering with companies ability to be innovative. Employers could afford to allow their employees to be creative and actually encouraged it. Thiokol's bread and butter was in the aerospace industry making rockets and systems for NASA and the snowcat division probably had some financial cushion.
Also if you remember back in the late 60sand early seventies there were hundreds of snowmobile manufactures and many only lasted a few years, but were still able to build, market and sell some machines. Even Sears sold machines where as today they can't hardly sell a decent socket set.
Just some random thoughts......... Randy
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Reddog
Guest
So curiosity got the better of me and I callled...
Seller is a nice guy and took time to talk. He is sure it is a Thiokol, but cannot find a ID tag. Says engine is a 4 bolt main 350 and is unsure about the tranny. He fabbed up the rack in back to hold cargo and make a anchor to attach the tranny cooler, exhaust, etc. to. Says the machine runs well, but has not really seen use in the last couple years. Blade is 11", drive sprockets are new. It does steer with the joystick with little effort, must be a system to that already discussed/theorized.
Sounds like a cool machine that would be easy to get parts for and possibly share some of the best of both brake/mechanical-Juice drives.
Any thoughts about cutting the outer band off the tracks to narrow the rascal down some? Looks long enough and light enough to not suffer terribly from the loss of footprint...
Seller is a nice guy and took time to talk. He is sure it is a Thiokol, but cannot find a ID tag. Says engine is a 4 bolt main 350 and is unsure about the tranny. He fabbed up the rack in back to hold cargo and make a anchor to attach the tranny cooler, exhaust, etc. to. Says the machine runs well, but has not really seen use in the last couple years. Blade is 11", drive sprockets are new. It does steer with the joystick with little effort, must be a system to that already discussed/theorized.
Sounds like a cool machine that would be easy to get parts for and possibly share some of the best of both brake/mechanical-Juice drives.
Any thoughts about cutting the outer band off the tracks to narrow the rascal down some? Looks long enough and light enough to not suffer terribly from the loss of footprint...
Alaska Snow Cat
Member
Cutting the outside belt is a pretty common way to narrow alpine class snowcats so I don't see a real problem. i personally cringe at the idea as I like the big foot print but I understand the need to do so. You will loose a little floatation but increase your traction so that could be beneficial depending on your needs.
I missed that it does have an oc-12 in it likely it is a 2100 that has been cut up I'm not Shure how the joy stick works. on the 2100 it takes hydraulic pressure from the pump steps it down than runs it through an open loop when you steer the steering valve closes a pintle directing the fluid in the direction of least resistance , your slave cylinder . if you run too much pressure you stand a chance of breaking a band its a simple system that works well if the pressure regulator is missing you can expect problems with the bands. I also have much respect for a small block chevy its like avw motor parts everywhere how ever I think you will fill it up a time or two and you will have enough of the gas guzzler.