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SNOW TRAC WHEELS - help me find parts

the old trucker

New member
Great rebuild on your machine but I don't like the color. I think you should have went with the red & black scheme. Just my nickels worth.

OT.
 

nikos

Active member
Hey guys
Kirk Thanks for the compliments, but i think, i have a lot of things to do, before i finished the all project. Especially inside the cabin - decoration with the wool material.
If i had the right to vote, i think the most best looking Snow tracs are: Arlow's and Louis or Louis and Arlow's.

Muleman I have already bought the Beacon Light, a magnetic one, with cable from the plug.

Jim, About the Ambulance Marking, you have to wait, and see what i'm thinking. I Have something on my mind.

Don I Like the colors of our wheels, are the best.:smile:
 

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nikos

Active member
Hey Guys
Last month Ι had to move the Snow Trac (in the same way that i had to pick up, in the last September from the first place ) to the new base - home, in my Father's village in a altitute 1450m, at the foothill of the mountain VITSI (2100m).
Because for some reason the damages they do not stop, a small boggie wheel completely destroyed and i had to replace it with a new one. For this reason I had need the hand made Villy's tool :hammer:, and now everything is OK.
Also we made a small metal base on the roof of the ST4 to fit a handmade magnetic beacon light.
Yesterday and today 13 /14- 10 -2012 the "ST4 as an ambulance" appeared as another support vehicle at a major mountain bike race "Drosopigi race 2012 Semi Marathon mountain bike " that took place in our mountain village. Athletes camped in tents in the countryside, on the field of football play and the presence of the ST4 attracted the attention - interest of visitors and the athletes themselves surprised about the type of ambulance. Of course there was a doctor and real ambulance which had to take an athlete to the hospital. .. I am just Counting the days and I watch - οbserve the clouds.
Regards Nikos.
 

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300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nikos,

I like the machine your refered to as well (louis's)...the tow behind camper is over the top!!

Your machine is an eye popper too especiall for us single door guys...It would be really nice to have the rear access you do for anyone's needs. With your talents I will be watching closely what you end up doing on your interior, and you mentioned wool... Not to mention with those doors working on the inside would be nicer too...

It would seem the attraction to the Snow Trac is universal. I have taken mine to several car shows and old tractor shows, and it draws alot of attention at those, as well as on the snow!

It's the time of year here soon for me to be getting mine out and ready. New drive sprockets would be in order, as mine are getting about worn out.

Regards, Kirk

Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
 

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
All you need now is some snow. You could ship it over here as they are predicting heavy snowfall this winter for the northeast U.S. Since we had almost none last winter it is overdue.
 

nikos

Active member
First a correction about the altitude of the village is 1045 not 1450 m ok.
Last year, in the mountain bike semi- marathon 2011, it held on the same date, it was raining in the village and at an altitude over 1450 m had snowfall.
Regarding this year's climate behavior of seasons, I have not received the necessary information and evidence. There are some people in my area who deal exclusively with empirical meteorologi - like counting the signs (Temperature – moisture etc) in the first 15 days inside a month, or watching and observing the clouds in the nights, and they know exactly + - the day that there will be snow, heavy or light.in the region.
The announcements of these people are one or two months before each climatic phenomenon. I didn't meet with anyone of these meteorogists yet.
The fact is that the rest of the people are seeing us, :smile: to supply with woods our houses for the winter, and understands that the heavy winter comes. We are the indians not the empirical meteorologists.:yum: I don't know what weather will occur this year compared with last years harsh winter. What Ι really know is that. In this mountain Vitsi had recorded large snowfalls.
We shall see. I wish to have more time to entertain the season of snow, than last year (inside the garage). I also wish for all those who didnt fulfilled their last year wishes because the small amount of snowfall, I wish to find the way for the snowy trail to reach the top of the mountain. ( including me ).


Kirk as long as there are friends, with the right tools, there are always solutions to small or large problems encountered during a rebuild. I am a painter, also an educator, and dealing with sculpture (metal construction). I have little mechanical experience. But I have ideas that can be applied.
I have important friends:hammer: involved in construction - repair, maintenance and various vehicles so the support is generic. But as long as there are tools, and friends, they'll appear and good ideas.

Regards Nikos.
 

nikos

Active member
Hey guys

The winter this year is too mild and snow that fell in the mountains it was very wet- not soft, and the ST4 had struggled on the closed turns.
After the walks in the uphill snowy paths I had to make some fixes - adjustments to SNOW Track.
First I noticed the overheats of the motor ( I don’t Know perhaps the soft-Winter ), and I decide to
A) Tight the Variator belt.
B) Open some holes in the aluminum frame, under the engine.
The holes were made at selected points on the engine cover, which emit - collect the heat in the area around the engine.
Three main holes in the front area of the exhaust, and other 2X3 holes, on the left and the right, in points, that accrued heavy amounts of heat, which are produced by the pipes who carries the air heat into the cabin.
I also noticed a few openings in the metallic compounds - between the angles of air duct which i had to close them. Obviously the absorbance, amounts of hot air, for cooling the engine does not help.
I placed it a new rubber barrier on top of the air duct below the point which is the vent,the next year I will lubricate the engine with Aeroshell.
In fact, the restoration work did not stop. You begin to adjust one part, and something happened - appear from the "next door", mechanical and operational problems that need solutions.
The whole effort to understand and adapt of the way which is better to operating the engine based on climatic conditions (wind, snow- altitude), is an approach that will take a long - long time.

to be continued....
Regards Nikos
 

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300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Nikos,

Tighten the variator belt. The snow in the pictures shouldn't be causing you any trouble to turn in at all. Make sure the sheeves are free of any grease or oil.

Does your machine have the front tin ware over the muffler intack?? You want the heat of the muffler to exit holes underneath of it. Is the pipe from the muffler going out, inside the belly pan? if so turn it down and out of the engine bay, through the skid shield under the engine. This alone will help alot...

On my machine if I don't let the heat from the engine from left cylinder bank come into the cabin, it dead heads and causes the oil to heat up more. I have a damper on the left hand cylinder bank I can close off.

Regards, Kirk
 

SnowTrac Hunter

New member
Nikos,

Two questions -

Did the holes in the skid plate make a major difference in heat???

Can you scan your drawing for the wheel jack???

I am considering drilling holes in my skid plate as well to reduce heat. I definitely could have used a wheel jack when I worked on mine last fall. Major pain in the butt, had my son helping or would not have been able to do it. Same concept just 2x4's, and the wood got chewed u quickly.

Thanks,
Joe
 

300 H and H

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
One more thing the tension of the fan belt. Mine was slipping, untill I found I could turn the alternater by hand...

Regards, Kirk
 

nikos

Active member
Hey guys
I hope the difference of the + - ten hours between the hemispheres is not a barrier to discussion. Maybe there is a delay but I will answer all the questions.

Kirk
the Sheaves are free now of any grease- oil.
The snow in the pictures is ok for rides, but i had troubles in the low altitude. The snow isn't ice, and the tracks sink into the snow grooves on the tight turns. I had to turn the ST 4 two or three times back - front ect.
As for the questions
Yes i have the front tin ware over the muffler.
also i want
a) The heat of the muffler to exit from the holes underneath of it
b) To mix the hot air inside the engine bay, with fresh air, from out side.

I don’t have damper on the right cylinder, because there is the Starter. I have only on the left cylinder, and i use it us well, close of, ect.

Probably i must turn down the left pipe out through the skid shield. It’s a goof idea. Thanks
As long i watch the F.F., I am learning how to learn.

My clock counts hundreds of hours in training method through FF. Watching - learning and counts equivalent hours of practical training in the garage, but only a few hours behind the wheel of ST4. (About + - 50 -60 miles)
I have no major problem, just adjust the ST4. in the climatic conditions, for better functioning.
In the course of the winter, there are ways to seal the holes ok

Regards Nikos
 

nikos

Active member
Hey Joe.
I have not even test the Snow track and i do not know yet the result of the adjustment. (In theory it works, but i think that it will work the same in reality.)
Many times on Saturday - Sunday the social or the professional obligations do not allow me to drive at the mountain snow trails. But I will soon know and i will inform you guys about the Heat dispute.
Joe As for the holes on the skid plate the consept need something nice- easy and quickly. I did not use wheel jack in the picture to put the skid plate, thats why i use the wood under my butt.

Regards Nikos
 

Lyndon

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
That's one beautiful "RIG"! I couldn't help but notice the BOTTECCHIA banners. You showed your ST4 at a Bicycle meet? I own a Bottecchia. Nice bike, also the first Italian to win the Tour de france.

I thought I had generated an article on the ST4 tires a long time ago, but it must be in with some other aspect of Snow Trac history that I generated earlier.
The little tires were always a weak aspect of the design. This actually led to the modification of the Large front tires on later models. It's also why other manufacturers went to larger wheels. There are very few substitutes for the small tire. I tried everything. So did MT. Snow, in Vermont. They had a whole fleet of ST4's and I remember seeing various attempts at substitute wheels that did not fare so well. I have even seen a guy in Alaska that made his own layered plywood wheels. Substituting Solid Casters for the second position from the front worked well on several of my machines. There is an aircraft tire that is made for Gliders, that works, but is hard to find and expensive. It's more ply's and can be inflated to higher pressure. The Canadian Phone companies had a tire manufacturer in Calgary that made solid tires for them. Probably Bandag. They also had Brass front sprockets made by someone in Calgary. As the Canadian Phone people purchased and operated about one fifth of the entire production of Snow Trac, Snow Master, and Trac Master's they got pretty good at modifications and improvements. Besides producing their own tires and sprockets, they were responsable for the later exhaust designs and some suspension improvements. They were possibly the only end user that by-passed all the dealers and delt directly with Westermaskiner. Some of the photos in the sales literature are of their machines. If you are going to stay with pneumatics, the original Snow Trac tire is the one I recomend. They are lighter and quieter, (16 on a Snow Trac, and 18 on a Trac Master), but if you want reliability get them foam filled. As the rear wheel is only for tensioning and rarely carries weight foam filling it is a good ideal and doesn't impair the ride. Always carry a spare big and little tire, check the air pressure regularly, and check to see that one has not frozen and isn't turning especially after sitting overnight. I've seen several machines with a destroyed tire and rime from being driven when they were not turning. One can also substitute a solid tire or caster for the "Top" tire, the one the track returns on to the back wheel. This also does not affect the ride or reliability.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the origionals are available as aircraft tail wheels you can get them up to 6 ply and from time to time aviall has blems for sale. i have seen them as cheep as 30 bucks a tire .so far the big wheel conversion i did on mine has worked well just don't need axked rated at 1000 pounds per axle i think 750's would be a better choice.
 

nikos

Active member
Lyndon - Lyndon.
The Boggie Wheels of the ST4 = Weak aspect or the Achilles Heel. A month ago when I, and my friends try to ride in a snow trail, for some how, I dont know, (Maybe of some hight pressure in that point - hard ground ) one small wheel, the tube broke on the right side.
I have pneumatic tires, and i didnt have not curry any extra tyre or the villy tool with me.
But at this point i have been lucky because, the front suspension system with the double small wheels, it turned over.
As you imagine it is something that you dont have seen everyday.
I thought that something barrier broken.
The front - top suspension system with the damage small tire just staying upsidedown, with no any other work inside the guides.
Only the second suspension double system in the right side is working (with the big and the real Wheel of course).
When we try to turned over, to change the position, inside the guides, the rig, broke also the tire. We realise that we have serious problem. The ring after the damage of the small wheel, it try to damage the rubber truck. We drive the ST4 in a position that it was easy to turned over the top suspension system again -upside down. ( I have Video of this procedure).
After that we continued with the 3/4 of the small wheels, without any other problem about 25 miles.
The result - lesson of this story is always carry someone with you.
I have now the villy tool, some tools and a solid caster tire with me. In the summer i try to find a better solutions with the foam filled tires.
Until then, what ever happent and did not kill you, it makes you more strong.

Regards Nikos
 

nikos

Active member
hey Villi from Iceland

Yes you all right.
The VILLI TOOL is a tool with brand name.:yum::yum::yum:
Regards Nikos
 

Sno-Surfer

Active member
Looks great! It didn't seem like that flipped boggie caused you much trouble. I don't have shocks on mine yet either so I've been wondering how that would happen. Do you know how it happened, hit something, or too fast or ?? How do you turn it back over? Did it hurt anything?

thanks for the video! Always cool to see where others take theirs. :smile:
 

nikos

Active member
hey Surfer

This happened in the first 3 miles, cause the hard road ground.
I dont have any trailer yet, that's why, and i have to drive the ST4 1 mile on a asphalt, and the other 2 milles on the ground, to find the snow trails.
Something hit the front boggie wheel (rock a curve - cavity and happened).
We stop to check the MT bike trails, and i realize that the front suspension system, it turned over. We found another curve there, and push the track from above to turn the suspension system "in the right place"
That was the real problem, because all the force, the weight, just in few minutes damaged the front flat boggie wheel.
Again we found another curve - cavity, and we turn over the front suspension system.
Nothing happened in the next 25 miles as you can see, on the snow trail.
Only the front wheel and the tube. Again we found hard ground about 3/4 mile, in the place, with the guys with the Jeep's, and in the village, 1/2 mile asphalt.
We drive the Snow trac 25 miles with 3/4 of the suspension system.
The track as tight as it is, if you found a cavity, a vacuum, it's easy to turn over, (of course with some force), the front suspension system.
In a cavity the weight of the rubber trac, fall down or take place inside the cavity, and if you push the boggie wheels, the system turn over.
Now i m ready for another "expedition". but i need to find a trail to go there.
The snow is too much there.
Too much.
Regards Nikos
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
Gravel road is hard on the tires. last week I drove the same distance as you with rocks flipping into the tracks. This is what happened. I used the jack setting on top to change it.
DSC00442.jpg
 

nikos

Active member
Hey Jim'
The same problem. I don't know maybe we should place a system of mirrors and cameras, (like the Big Trucks) to know what happens every second with small wheel.:yum::yum::yum:

On the mountain there is to mush fresh snow and I can not move, drive the ST4 on the stone ground.(no trail). The weather in February it rains constantly, and on high altimeters is snowing every day. (the last 10 days).+ six feet.
In normal condition with snowfall, I could drive the ST4 until the top of the Vitsi mountain, a distance 12 km.
Today the weather has created two levels, a) autumn landscape with rain and the other b) with heavy snowfalls.
I must call for a helicopter- ambulance REALLY.

Regards Nikos.
 

Snowtrac Nome

member formerly known as dds
GOLD Site Supporter
the flipped boggies can be a real problem when opperating on tundra or crossing rutts in the trail or larger rocks if your snow track came with out shocks you can improvise with some limiting straps or chains tied off to the frame.
 

Sno-Surfer

Active member
Ok Nikos, I see how you flipped it back over. I took another look at the video.

JimVT, where do you put that jack to jack the boogie up? I can't see how that would work? How fast are you going to ruin a rim with a flat? If one had to, could you drive a while with a flat boogie?

Just this morning I notice the same boogie on mine and the bead had come out of the rim. They are foam filled but went ahead and took it off and put an air filled on on and it's working fine so far. Took it out again today for about 12 miles or so. 4 adults and four kids. Had a great time. :biggrin:
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have a hydraulic scissor jack and 300lb chain ratchet. they both have several uses.
the jack has it's own case that is nice. I put the jack on the inside close to the guides lifting on the spring and turned it some so the axle bolt would slide out. It tilted the wheel some when jacking so the chain ratchet pulled the outside spring straight just enough to make it easy.
If I only had one the chain ratchet would be it. They are very small and work good. $40 at harbor frieght. Way better than a cable wratchet
 

JimVT

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have a hydraulic scissor jack and 300lb chain ratchet. they both have several uses.
the jack has it's own case that is nice. I put the jack on the inside close to the guides lifting on the spring and turned it some so the axle bolt would slide out. It tilted the wheel some when jacking so the chain ratchet pulled the outside spring straight just enough to make it easy.
If I only had one the chain ratchet would be it. They are very small and work good. $40 at harbor frieght. Way better than a cable wratchet
 

nikos

Active member
Good Day

I am in the process to replace the wheels of the ST4.
4x600x100 and the 10X boogie wheels with those with foam Filled in the next months.(April - May).:hammer:
I want your opinion, especially from those who have foam filled tyres in their ST4.
From the research that I've done on the local market, I have two simple question.
Which is the right speed of the ST4 with the foam filled tyres?
(Not over than 20Kmph or 13 mph.). Is that right?
and
What about the condition of the shape on a foam filled tyre.
Any problem?. When they start to destroyed?

Regards Nikos
 
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