Thiokol 201 questions

I know, I know..."But Dog, you had one, wait, more than one, nice ones, and sold them, now you say you are thinking about buying another one, are you just crazy...!??"
Well, yes, and no, but probably more yes than no...
I kind of have the fever again and can't stop looking at a 201 that is in the area. Looks like a nice rig that has some room for improvement (read: throwing money at...). I've had a few Thiokols, but never a 201. I like the tranny setup with the 6 cylinder, but am skeptical about it's deeper powder abilities. Coming out of my SM (with narrow tracks), will I be significantly disappointed with the 201's performance??

Thanks for the input

Also, how is pricing/value on these models vs an Imp or Super Imp. Seems like they do not demand the same price given similar condition....

Having never run one of these I'm still gonna chime in. The front mounted OC-4 has no reductions like the Spryte. I think you will be pleased with top speed on the flats where you have the power to get it. The smaller track footprint combined with the lack of lower gearing has to negatively affect deep powder performance but how that will compare with a SM with cut down tracks who knows. Most of your trails have a packed base anyway don't they? I don't think these have been as popular as some other machines because of the seating/ cab arrangement. They have a pretty cool novel look to them. I'm surprised that after having owned snowcats you can be happy in life without one.

" I'm surprised that after having owned snowcats you can be happy in life without one."

Hence my itchy-ness...

Thanks for the input. You are correct in that most of our travels are on groomed stuff, but it's handy to be able to boondock too!

Well, Doug you left yourself open a bit so here it comes......

You are a motor-head. with that said and your given location on the planet, a snow cat is inevitable. The 201 without drop boxes caught my attention right up until i sat in one.

Upon sitting in it I felt that it was a purpose built machine that did not lend itself to a recreational use.
I felt the power plant was desirable
the diff a strong spot as well
the large bogies
simple platform
great reliability
Negatives
lots of steel.
goofy seating
even with a full cab remodel, the motor is still inboard and going to be noisy for the occupants.

Petty thoughts for sure but....... You asked.

You have it in the shop don't you........ )))))))

Thanks Red, now i'm confuzzled:
"the motor is still inboard"
It looks outboard to me, am I missing something in the vernacular??

Pretty much my thoughts too on the cab configuration, but it has a removable top, so a convertible cat sounds strangely appealing....

I think he meant if if you did a full cab remodel the engine would be inboard
But if you think about it most are!

Value wise I've never seen a 201 bring as much as a 1450 Super IMP and they are not the same.
I have seen the 201 bring about the same as the 1404 IMP
I've seen 201 go for 4000.00-8000 yeah some maybe more just like any depends on buyer
I saw a 1450 super IMP go for 7200.00 less than 200 hours this summer ( I placed a bid and had to jump on a plane, or it would have went higher) now someone is flipping it on Craigslist for 18,500

the 201 has some cool points the snow trac is the only machine with front drive that seems to have any good manners the bombardier products all seem to want to walk from side to side the narrow track configuration might make a good tundra runner up here

I think they are cool. From what I've read, the design was centered on snow surveys at the time with the sideboard style for long stuff. All terrain tracks.
Bill Guthrie once told me "You'd have to pay me a hundred bucks to watch me get in one". While trying to talk me into buying it.

-Pat

Snowtrac Nome said:

the 201 has some cool points the snow trac is the only machine with front drive that seems to have any good manners the bombardier products all seem to want to walk from side to side the narrow track configuration might make a good tundra runner up here

Click to expand...

I think the Bombardier muskegs with the front drive steer nice
And of course the Cushman trackster steer nice but are hydro

The big Bombardier B15 and B20 steered fine with front drive especially for 30-40,000 pound machines

Hagglunds are front drive but articulate

Front drives were typically made for soft swamp the tendency is to lift the front
Up if they dive down and they do not do as well on real steep because of that

All ski hill groomers are rear drive for that reason to pull the front back down to the hill to keep from coming over on themselves

If you can't drive up a hill with a machine with front drive you will be amazed if if run it reverse. I've done this with my Snowtrac it does make a difference

If the cushmans would have had the engines in the front and the drives in the back they would have done better on inclines

that is exactly why the weasel looks like it's running backward in testing the original prototypes were front drive. the army found they worked better running backward Studebaker swapped the ring gear around and changed seating rather than a complete redesign during war time.

I always thought weasels looked like they were running backwards, now I know why....

as Paul Harvey would say now you know the rest of the story

I owned my Bombis when we had very deep snow. They would go better in reverse and always toyed with the idea of doing a custom build with the drive in the back. Lucky for me I bought a Spryte and never looked back.

So I had a buddy up in Casper (where the rig is) go take a look. Sounds like it is a nice enough outfit, tires, cogs and belting looks good and overall condition is acceptable. Front seat sits high enough to bang your head on the roof if you bounce around a little too much and the rear seat is more of a shelf or dog perch than a seat.
The rig came out of Vegas and was on the site a few years back:
http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=58551
Current owner is asking 9K. I'm afraid the cab configuration is going to kill it for me, but it may work for someone else. Seller says he is holding it for a week for someone from Idaho...

Thanks for all the input!

I had talked with the previous owner on that machine when it was in AZ.
But it was more appropriately priced then. 9K is on the very high side for that machine.

Reddog said:

Thanks Red, now i'm confuzzled:
"the motor is still inboard"
It looks outboard to me, am I missing something in the vernacular??

Click to expand...

What Brad said: the folks in the rear would have nowhere to put their feet. unless they sat on the cowl and faced outward.. Hey there is an idea.

I guess i was thinking front motor configuration spilts the front seats, puts the noise in the business end. the wet bar and lounge chairs wind up in the back.

with motor in the back like that I felt the balance would be better for turning and what not, just that the bar would have no room for a fridge under it.

But with the motor inboard, running a PTO to a blender for margaritas is easier to accomplish....

I currently own a 1963 201 and it is a fun little machine. I have never had a problem with climbing hills feeling like it was going to come up on me or felt it was under powered due to the non-reduction drive train. Mine is basically stock drive-wise with the ford 170ci straight 6 but there is more than enough room for increasing motor to the 300ci and I have seen a couple 201's with an added C4 transmission. I think the drive train is perfect like it is- 1st is low enough to pull itself out of any kind of trouble and if you can actually get enough open space to get into 4th gear watch out! its fast! Maintenance is super easy and changing tires goes pretty quick as the axles are torsion style so you dont have to unbolt/remove any springs to get the the rims.

I have 2 gripes with the 201- the first is the cab. Getting in and out is interesting and once inside it is.....cozy. I am 6'5 and I have to sit stooped over. I thought about lowering the seat riser which would be very simple but haven't yet. The 201 is perfect for 3 small (5ft?) adults but any larger and 2 people plus a small dog is about it. If I am in the back seat I straddle the drivers chair-sitting on one seat and then leaning into the other. The cab is easily removable and I have thought about making a spacer to go in between the top and the body to add extra height but I'm not patient enough to build it.
My second gripe is with steering effort. The steering yokes are bolted directly onto the transaxle and come straight up through the floor. This is great for simplicity and maintenance as there are no hydraulics to fail but kinda suck after a long curvy drive when you don't have the added hydraulic multiplier to aid in softening steering effort. The more often you turn the hotter the braking bands will get thus requiring more effort. If you are on open range most of the time then not an issue but I always find myself laboriously going up 8 million switchbacks for hours on end and by the time its done I feel like my arms are gonna fall off.

It is a really fun machine to drive- hope this helps your decision.

-Richard

Thanks for the great review Richard, nice, informed but unbiased info!

201 spryte-we used 1" square tubing as a spacer. It was easy to work with and made a bigger difference than you'd think.