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Wet spot in basement

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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We have a walk-in/daylight basement in our house. The house is on a slightly sloped hill and there is only one corner of the basement that has dirt along the full height of the wall.

We recently found a small (less than 12") wet spot along the middle of one of the walls. The wet spot is not going away so I'm assuming it is some form of foundation crack issue.

What is the best plan of attack for this issue? Tear apart the wall from the inside or excavate the outside wall?

I'm leaning towards excavating the outside wall as this would be less disruptive and I could then put in some better drainage along the wall to make sure water can't build up along the wall.

I'm assuming that I will have to seal the wall and attempt to patch the crack if I can find it.

I'm open to suggestions - it doesn't seem to be an emergency situation.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
Is the wall finished? Water seeping through the sheetrock / paneling? Or is it unfinished? Concrete? Block?
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think you are on the right track. It is difficult to stop a leak from the inside, and generally it is a question of getting the drainage correct.

You don't mention what the wall is made of, but if it is block, any slight shift in the terrain will open a crack. If the wall is concrete, it can be either a crack in the foundation, or the form ties are no longer waterproof.

A 12 inch wet spot in a concrete wall would indicate a waterproofing problem.
 

rlk

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
I think you answered your own question:

I'm leaning towards excavating the outside wall as this would be less disruptive and I could then put in some better drainage along the wall to make sure water can't build up along the wall.

I'm assuming that I will have to seal the wall and attempt to patch the crack if I can find it.

Bob
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
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It's a solid concrete foundation and the basement is finished (drywall). There doesn't seem to be any wet spots on the drywall so I suspect it is just slowly seeping to the lowest point along the wall.

It looks like I'm on the right track with the outside excavation. I'll start ripping up the brick patio tomorrow and start sourcing an excavator.

Any suggestions on products or techniques for sealing the outside wall? I haven't begun researching that yet. I probably won't get to this stage until later in the spring. Our worst weather is yet to come so I will probably just look at it and keep digging until the weather improves.
 

jimbo

Bronze Member
GOLD Site Supporter
If the wet spot is on the drywall, which is probably furred out from the foundation, I would make sure the problem is not inside the home, i.e. leaking plumbing. If the leak is from the exterior, you would most likely not see a spot on the drywall. Most probably the bottom of the drywall would show the signs.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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The wet spot is on the floor no sign of it on the drywall.

No plumbing anywhere near this wall.
 

Bamby

New member
I'm assuming that you have a french drain around the perimeter of your foundation. My house foundation also is like yours similar in a walk out design. As such my french drain was very close to the surface in one corner and at some point got severally crushed at some point in time and we had some water seepage into the basement. Inadvertently I found it doing some landscaping work and repaired the drain. Anyway we now have a much happier and drier basement to accumulate our clutter in...:hammer:
 

ki0ho

Active member
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This is entirly to serious......how about just stop pissing in the corner....see if it dries up:yum:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
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I'm assuming that you have a french drain around the perimeter of your foundation. My house foundation also is like yours similar in a walk out design. As such my french drain was very close to the surface in one corner and at some point got severally crushed at some point in time and we had some water seepage into the basement. Inadvertently I found it doing some landscaping work and repaired the drain. Anyway we now have a much happier and drier basement to accumulate our clutter in...:hammer:

I strongly suspect that there is no french drain or if there is one it is not done properly.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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This is entirly to serious......how about just stop pissing in the corner....see if it dries up:yum:

But that would mean an extra 20 foot walk to the bathroom. I can hit that corner from the couch and don't even have to get up! :hide: :eek:
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Your solution depends on typography and ground slope. You said this is the only wall with dirt so I will assume it is on the up hill side of your lot and water is draining toward this foundation wall.

You may get away with a simple PVC pipe french drain three feet below the surface but,,,
A true fix is to go below the level of your basement floor. Do a three foot wide ditch and fill with draining gravel. Usually referred to as septic gravel, two inches and round smooth stones.
You can line the bottom of the drain with 11 mil black plastic and also against the wall. Glue it with construction adhesive at the soil gradeline. Place {PVC perforated tubing, in a filter sock in the gravel as a collector drain. Route this around the house till it is well beyond the foundation. There, either exit the ground, if grade allows gravity drain,, or put in a sump pump.

Do not use the corrugated pipe for this. It will fail within five years. Use schedule 40 PVC.

Cover the gravel with landscape cloth before you put dirt back down. Try to bank the surface away from the house or to each side of it with a crowned grading.

If ground water is your problem this is the surest easiest method of repair.

Phase two,
If this fails to correct you situation, and it is not a plumbing failure, then you could try an inside french drain. Cut the concrete floor 18" from the offending wall. Remove it. Cut a ditch about twelve inches down and fill the bottom with 11 mil black plastic, the same 4" PVC perforated pipe covered with a filter sock.

Some people say you must pitch this pipe. I say just keep it level until you get close to the sump pit. Install a PVC sump bowl and an approved pump system. Pipe it out through the wall well away from the house(15')
You may need to do this on three sides of your foundation.
Back fill with drainage gravel and re pour the floor with concrete.

Repair the finishes and relax. Basement will be dry.

Attempts to re seal from the inside, or the outside,, will most likely disappoint. Cracked foundation walls are normal. Not a structural threat. Attempts to seal them eventually fail because the concrete is moving due to water and soil pressure changes this because of the water. Get the water away from the wall and the dynamics causing the problem go away.


NOW, having said all that, there are paints that may seal the floor. Kwicklock is a sandy finished moisture barrier paint. It is a paint not recommended for floor issues but,,,,It works! Get the floor as dry as you can and roll this paint on. Let dry and replace your flooring.
 
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XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
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Phase One sounds like what I was thinking. I'll have to do some of it by hand so it is going to take a while but as I said - it's not an emergency (yet).
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Phase One sounds like what I was thinking. I'll have to do some of it by hand so it is going to take a while but as I said - it's not an emergency (yet).

Most soils in Washington are alluvial and unstable, Be careful when you dig deep along the foundation as the uphill soils will cause pressure changes to create a possible cave in. Anything deeper than four feet, re-enforce the walls with cribbing. especially if you are digging by hand and some time is involved.
 
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XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
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I'm pretty sure I will be carving in clay. In the past digging in this area has involved a fair amount of pick axe work. :neutral:

I'm probably going to start at the bottom and work my way up. There is lots of stuff that needs to be worked around at the lower end. Once that is done the I can dig out the high end with an excavator and get that part done fairly quickly.
 

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm pretty sure I will be carving in clay. In the past digging in this area has involved a fair amount of pick axe work. :neutral:

I'm probably going to start at the bottom and work my way up. There is lots of stuff that needs to be worked around at the lower end. Once that is done the I can dig out the high end with an excavator and get that part done fairly quickly.

Never trust dirt uphill from where you are digging.

Jus' be careful. Aside from the usual concerns,,,,,, Your contributions here are valued.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Jus' be careful. Aside from the usual concerns,,,,,, Your contributions here are valued.

Pffft . . . I should be so lucky. God isn't done tormenting me yet. :sad:

I'll only be ripping up a brick patio and the deck stairs I just finished a few years ago. Let the torture begin.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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I'm with F7 with a couple comments as I didn't see them discussed.

After you have all your French drains in and you're running a pipe underground to some distant location, never, ever share your French (or floor) drain with your gutter drain pipe. A couple pipes in the same ditch but never share a pipe.

I don't recall for solid concrete walls like yours but when sealing was being discussed, I thought it taboo to seal both sides, especially in block walls. If water does get in, it now has no place to escape.
 

thepooguy

Member
three things first! grade grade and grade. getting the water off the surface and away from the house, 9 times out of 10, fixes the problem. also the brick patio thing tells me alot! im sure you put down LOTS of grainy sand first for a bed for the brick. think of the sand as 1in stone. it fills with water and then takes the course of least resistance which in your case is probably along side of the cement wall. if you have a 12 in water puddle now you will soon have a bigger one as the capillaries channelling the water to the tile will continue to grow and further overwhelm the footing tile. when we backfill a swimming pool we are more concerned with the grade of the clay that we put our sand on than the grade of the sand we put our cement on! what i mean is that we start at the pool edge with about 2 to 3 inches of sand and at about 10 ft away from the pool we have 6 in or so of sand and at 20 ft out we have 10 in or so. this insures that no water builds up around the pool or under the concrete deck (dry dirt doesnt expand when it freezes). in some cases we will even run a tile around the outside edge of the cement just below the level of the sand to enhance the "keep things dry" even further. in your case i would not start ripping things up. i would trench down the sides of the patio to a depth just below the sand (again think of it as washed stone) with a 1/4 fall on the tile....then trench between the 2 on the outside edge (level) and connect them and then run the tile to a point lower. when you backfill the tile use a corse landscape screen to line the trench first...then use peastone (the finer the stone the better) up to a point 4in from top of the brick. then cover the top of the stone with the screen and put topsoil on the remaining 4 inchs. the topsoil helps to seal the stone so we dont work backwards by feeding it with the water that runs off the patio. this should drain the underground lake under your patio that is feeding the water to your foudations. as an afterthought i would also NOT start the trench untill your at least 1ft away from the wall so the stone doesnt channell it to the wall. IF you did go overboard on the sand under the brick like most do, i think this will cure your woes. my famous quote after being in the pool bussiness for 35 years is "there are only 3 things in this world i know EVERYTHING there is to know about....dirt....water...and women. and the more i do this job the more predictable the dirt and water get...AMEN. Dave
 

luvs

'lil yinzer~
GOLD Site Supporter
my Parents' basement flooded often. we would put caulking into into cracks frequently. 2 days later, we would be putting h2o into buckets, as the cellar would flood again, despite that. that was 1 thing my Dad couldn't fix.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
three things first! grade grade and grade. getting the water off the surface and away from the house, 9 times out of 10, fixes the problem. also the brick patio thing tells me alot! im sure you put down LOTS of grainy sand first for a bed for the brick. think of the sand as 1in stone. it fills with water and then takes the course of least resistance which in your case is probably along side of the cement wall. if you have a 12 in water puddle now you will soon have a bigger one as the capillaries channelling the water to the tile will continue to grow and further overwhelm the footing tile. when we backfill a swimming pool we are more concerned with the grade of the clay that we put our sand on than the grade of the sand we put our cement on! what i mean is that we start at the pool edge with about 2 to 3 inches of sand and at about 10 ft away from the pool we have 6 in or so of sand and at 20 ft out we have 10 in or so. this insures that no water builds up around the pool or under the concrete deck (dry dirt doesnt expand when it freezes). in some cases we will even run a tile around the outside edge of the cement just below the level of the sand to enhance the "keep things dry" even further. in your case i would not start ripping things up. i would trench down the sides of the patio to a depth just below the sand (again think of it as washed stone) with a 1/4 fall on the tile....then trench between the 2 on the outside edge (level) and connect them and then run the tile to a point lower. when you backfill the tile use a corse landscape screen to line the trench first...then use peastone (the finer the stone the better) up to a point 4in from top of the brick. then cover the top of the stone with the screen and put topsoil on the remaining 4 inchs. the topsoil helps to seal the stone so we dont work backwards by feeding it with the water that runs off the patio. this should drain the underground lake under your patio that is feeding the water to your foudations. as an afterthought i would also NOT start the trench untill your at least 1ft away from the wall so the stone doesnt channell it to the wall. IF you did go overboard on the sand under the brick like most do, i think this will cure your woes. my famous quote after being in the pool bussiness for 35 years is "there are only 3 things in this world i know EVERYTHING there is to know about....dirt....water...and women. and the more i do this job the more predictable the dirt and water get...AMEN. Dave

Thanks Dave!

I'm not sure I can grade away from the house on this side because it is against the slope of the hill. I also have a driveway about 15-20 feet beside this wall so I can't really do much as far as changing the lay of the land.

I should probably post a picture of what I'm dealing with as it is going to be an interesting project.
 

Galvatron

Spock and Galvatron < one and the same
PB the fact you have a wet spot on the floor and no signs of wall or even ceiling wetness is a concern.....now i may sound stupid but are you sure a pet has not taken this spot for it's potty??? pictures for sure of the area inside and out would give me a better idea....i feel the floor needs to come up and a new membrane sheet installed as it sounds like it is coming up rather than from down or the sides.

Do you have specs on the floor from when it was built...materials used ect???
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
PB the fact you have a wet spot on the floor and no signs of wall or even ceiling wetness is a concern.....now i may sound stupid but are you sure a pet has not taken this spot for it's potty??? pictures for sure of the area inside and out would give me a better idea....i feel the floor needs to come up and a new membrane sheet installed as it sounds like it is coming up rather than from down or the sides.

Do you have specs on the floor from when it was built...materials used ect???

Positive it's not the dog - we only discovered it when we moved a filing cabinet and noticed the bottom was rusted. I suspect it has been leaking for a long time but we only noticed it now. The filing cabinet has been there for at least 9 years.

I also think it only leaks during the heavy rains. It looks like we are heading for a dry period so it will be interesting to see if it dries out a bit.

I'm not sure there is a floor to come up, it's a concrete floor with carpet over it.
 

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
I'm going to assume this is a poured slab type floor which I deal with daily. Water will sweat up through concrete unless sealed which is probably your problem. We reseal every few years so as not to have this problem. Just a suggestion.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
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Here's some pics.

In the first picture the X denotes where the rain water likes to run when it is raining hard.

The "leak" arrow points to approximately where the leak is in the basement. The leak is just at the floor and doesn't seem noticeable on the drywall.

The second picture is where I'm thinking of putting in a drain and with a dry well to catch the water. I'm thinking I'll just rip up the patio and cut off that little stair area of the deck (never like it anyways). I'll come up with some new stairs and landscaping plan later. I'm also thinking of running a drain around the front of the house too. Why not tear everything up while I'm at it. ;)

The third picture is just another view. The "Fake RW" is just a fake retaining wall I built and back filled it with drain rock. It serves no structural purpose. Pretty much the same with the lower one. The backfill on them is all rock so they shouldn't be holding any water.

The fourth picture is just another view to show the slope of the hill.
 

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thepooguy

Member
maybe a tile with peastone to the top inbetween the tar and the pavers.....where the wood is now.......lots of water comming down the drive and pouring against the house. a couple feet more of foundation wall on that side would have been nice. you could have a much more favorable grade that way.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
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The real question is... how do you like the canoe bag? I've been thinking of getting one.
 
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