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A letter from my daughter. (smack in the middle of the axis of evil)

1948berg

New member
Hei!



Jeg kopierer og limer inn reisebrevet jeg har skrevet til bloggen paa facebook, sann i tilfelle dere ikke er online der. Det er bare aa beklage at det er paa engelsk, men er lettere aa skrive denne slags ting paa engelsk siden flesteparten av mottakerne leser engelsk.







Hello friends and foes, I am writing to you from Yarmouk Palestinian refugee camp on the outskirts of Damascus in Syria. I have been here for 2 weeks now, as a participant in a voluntary program.

The first few days of the program consisted of introductory classes to The Palestinian Case, taught by volunteers at the Jafra Youth Center, our host organization. We were taught about the history of Palestine, the different political parties and idiologies, the role of the UN and its relief agencies etc etc, in order to get an introduction to the lives that these refugees live.

Jafra lies in Yarmouk, which is a community of palestinian refugees. Check out http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/syria/yarmouk.html for more information about the camp.

Some of the preparation time was also spent planning activities that the group of foreign voluntaries would be in charge of during the children's camp that we were here to help out with. The highlight of this preparation session was the night we were invited to another refugee camp - one where the standard of living is quite lower than the one in yarmouk. In the end of the visit, we were invited home to one of the men who volunteer with the Jafra center, a really really lovely family with the old grandmother (the only one in the family who has actually lived in palestine), and the rest of the extended family living in the house. By using one of the Jafra volunteers as a translator I spent a lot of time talking to the grandmother of the family, showing her photos from Norway and hearing about her life. Two of the children of this family were attending the camp later, I had quite a lot of contact with them, and as a result I have been invited to visit this family for dinner one night, and experience I am looking very much foreward to.

The summer camp was for children between 8 and 13, and it was organized in a huge educational center run by the PLO on the outskirts of Damascus. This center is a welfare center for widows and children of palestinian martyrs who have fallen in the fight for palestine rights, and consists of school buildings, a large outdoor area, huge dormitories and kitchen facilities, along with sports fields and theatre halls, all in a quite sad cement/ rundown style, sort of reminded me of images of eastern europe... All the walls of course had images of Yassir Arafat, posters with palestine propaganda and the like.

The kids had a quite hard program every day, starting with morning gym at 6:30 (jumping jacks and running in circles), breakfast, motivational lectures (mostly regarding palestine war heroes), play time, and in between there would be semi-military activiites including lots of standing in rows and yelling out palestine war cries. Which is why at times the whole childrens camp felt more like a military boot camp for minors.The activities would last until maybe 11 at night, so the kids really had a tough program. Me of course I got up much later and also took a siesta during the worst heat of the afternoon.

Its really difficult to explain but the fight for palestine freedom and the right to go home is so strong within the palestine refugee community, even after generations abroad. Its everywhere, even in the childrens minds, which was quite a culture shock for many participants. It could be quite disturbing to see these small and innocent children in drawing class drawing martyrs being killed by israeli soldiers, or theater plays involving massacres. Sometimes it really felt like I was on a different planet, where everything I have ever taken to be normal and true was flipped upside down in this palestine mad world.

On the other hand it was really rewarding and lots of fun to hang out with the kids! They were wellbehaved and fun, and even though they spoke very little english, and my arab is huhm well, extremely limited. I have picked up some words though, and I am making an effort to learn some more. And its amazing to see how far a bit of bodylanguage and making some animal noises will take communication!!!! I gained quite some fame among the kids after being a "mechanical bull" on a night that we organized games for all the kids in the evening.

The European volunteers worked in different workshops such as ceramics and dance, I was in charge of taking photos of everything during the camp, so my days basically consisted of strolling around taking photos of the kids and their activities, and chatting to the local volunteers. I must say that I have been fortunate to meet many really nice people and some of the local volunteers are the kind of people I would have become really really good friends with if I had stayed here for a longer time, and that I appreciate having met and shared some time with, -and that I expect to keep in touch with.

If I have to say something negative about my trip so far, it must be that I just cant quite get used to the toilet being a keyhole-shaped hole in the floor. I mean, when I suffer from diarrea (which of course I have been having basically since I arrived), there's nothing I'd rather have than a good old-fashioned sit-down toilet, some magazines to keep me company, and some nice soft toilet paper. Not a hole in the ground that I have to crouch over, trying to balance and aim at the same time, and cleaning myself with a water hose later. Sorry to give you so many details, by the way.... ;-)

On the last day of the camp there was a farewell party where the children performed their dance and theatre stuff, distributed the newspaper they had made during the camp etc. Many parents and siblings had come to see their children, and it was a lot of fun to be dragged by the hand around by different kids to be introduced to their parents and the parents and families going crazy taking tons of photos of us. In particular I got in touch with one family, whose son, Khaled, had spent quite some time with me trying to teach me to count in arab (I can now count to 30! Almost without checking my notes!!). Khaled is a lovely little kid of maybe 12 years old, and he has 3 sibilings between 15 and 20 appx, and the parents were maybe 45. The women of course dressed in long outfits and with the headscarf (hair covered, not their face). The mother of the family works as a secretary in a local hospital and is a colleague of one of the local volunteers. Really sweet people, and although only the father speaks a few words of English, we somehow managed to communicate quite well, and as a result I also have a dinner invitation to go to their home one evening. I will go with Mustafa (the colleague and volunteer) and that way I have a translator, -really a unique opportunity to get to know "real people", and something I would have never had the opportunity to do if I had been on an organized tour or backpacking by myself.

On the topic of backpacking; after finishing the childrens camp, the group of volunteers went to the roman ruins of Palmyra yesterday. In an oasis in the middle of the desert lies what used to be an important stopping point on the trade routes between Persia and the Mediterranean. It was a magical place. We arrived in the early morning, after driving through the desert at sunrise (awesome sight), and spent hours just strolling through the enormous site. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra . From there we went to a small town on the border of Libanon where we had a typical Syrian meal and spent the afternoon talking, eating, drinking (especially the local alcohol ARAK, quite similar to the greek Ouzo), dancing and having a fun time together with the local volunteers who had chosen to join us.

Since I have finished my volunteer program I am now free to travel around the region until I return on the 13th of September. I'll be doing some sightseeing in and around of Damascus the next few days, after that I don't really have a specific plan, the only must-do activities are the two family dinner invitations that I have.

As you can see, the hospitality that I have come across here is just amazing. Even though the language barrier is quite big, people are extremely friendly, respectful, and curious to get to know foreign people. I feel very safe everywhere I go, much more than for example in Barcelona or even Norway. Who would have thought that, from a place smack in the middle of the axis of evil?









Hilsen Helene

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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
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Sounds to me like a brainwashing camp to indoctinate potential future terrorists and the volunteers are there to spread sympathy for their cause.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
It could be quite disturbing to see these small and innocent children in drawing class drawing martyrs being killed by israeli soldiers, or theater plays involving massacres.
I'm sorry, like Bob, I too am very skeptical of the host's intentions. Do the children also draw pictures of Palestinians launching rockets into Israel to kill women and children, or of "martyrs" blowing themselves up on busses?
Bonehead
 

mak2

Active member
Bob and bonehead, be that as it may, I think it is very nobel for 1948berg's daughter to volunteer in such an environment. I have Islamic friends here that are very nice, nice to be around, even when their "Bible" says they must kill me. Maybe one of these days those people might wake up and realize the civilized world has toliet paper and toilets to put it in, quit blowing up stuff and start selling and buying stuff. In a big way she is actually going there adn seeing for herself. I hope she is and remains safe in a dangerous part of the world, and great satisfaction from her efforts volunteering.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
I have no problem with the volunteers. I liken them to members of the Peace Corps and I truely believe their intentions are honorable. I just feel that they are being used, as Bob said, "to spread sympathy" for their host's cause. Remember Saddam and his "guests"? Many of these people were being used as human shields.
Bone
 

mak2

Active member
I was just saying this is about 1948's daughter, not the intent of the host's. THis thread immediately became a thread about the evil Palastenians.
 

California

Charter Member
Site Supporter
I was just saying this is about 1948's daughter, not the intent of the host's.
Well said. The saintliness of Berg's daughter is to be admired. If the world had more like her it would be a better place.

Perhaps they can learn something from her presence. Perhaps not. She felt strongly enough to make the effort, that's the point.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi.

I think she has taken this to heart.
 

daedong

New member
Bone and Bob, how you bastards can turn a positive into a negative. I make no apology for my language, Bergs daughter only deserves praise and nothing less. Her presence at that camp must leave some positive influence on those kids about westerners. If more of us in the world showed some compassion instead of hatred things might be different.

Berg, give my thanks and best wishes to your daughter.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Bone and Bob, how you bastards can turn a positive into a negative. I make no apology for my language, Bergs daughter only deserves praise and nothing less. Her presence at that camp must leave some positive influence on those kids about westerners. If more of us in the world showed some compassion instead of hatred things might be different.

Berg, give my thanks and best wishes to your daughter.
I harbor no ill will toward Berg's daughter.

I harbor no ill will toward the plight of the Palestinians.

While I am a believer in the notion that Isreal has the right to exist as a state, I also am a believer in the notion that Palestinians have a right to a state.

What I said, however, is what I see in relation to the "summer camp for children" and that is that it sure looks like a brainwashing camp to train future terrorist. Please read what Berg's daughter wrote. She wrote that the actions and the training (indoctrination) can be disturbing. She wrote that they draw pictures of Israeli soldiers killing Palestinians in their art "class" as part of their assignments. You will note they did not draw pretty flowers, or fuzzy kittens. Please note also that the children are up early and forced into group acitivities until very late, and that some of the group activities are para-military.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. That is all I did.
 

daedong

New member
Sounds to me like a brainwashing camp to indoctinate potential future terrorists and the volunteers are there to spread sympathy for their cause.

I harbor no ill will toward Berg's daughter.

I harbor no ill will toward the plight of the Palestinians.

While I am a believer in the notion that Isreal has the right to exist as a state, I also am a believer in the notion that Palestinians have a right to a state.

What I said, however, is what I see in relation to the "summer camp for children" and that is that it sure looks like a brainwashing camp to train future terrorist. Please read what Berg's daughter wrote. She wrote that the actions and the training (indoctrination) can be disturbing. She wrote that they draw pictures of Israeli soldiers killing Palestinians in their art "class" as part of their assignments. You will note they did not draw pretty flowers, or fuzzy kittens. Please note also that the children are up early and forced into group acitivities until very late, and that some of the group activities are para-military.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. That is all I did.

She has not shown any sympathy, but what she has done is shown young Muslims that all westerners are not ass holes. And that may stay in the back of those young kids heads for ever.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
She has not shown any sympathy
Apparently you read her words differently than I do
but what she has done is shown young Muslims that all westerners are not ass holes. And that may stay in the back of those young kids heads for ever.
Or they may look upon her as a tool to send back to the west to spread, in a symathetic voice, first hand stories of the little children oppressed by the horrible Jews, the same Jews who killed their brothers, the same Jews who stole their land and forced them into these camps.

Seems to me that Western Europe is already showing some signs of forgetting about the Nazi concentration camps where the Jews were murdered. Syria, the host nation to these summer camps, is working with Iran to host conferences that claim the Holocost of the Jews never occured.

Basically I'd say that you are naive and I stand by what I wrote. I understand you may disagree with what I wrote, we are each entitled to our own opinions on the matter. As we Americans are known to say, if it walks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck. That camp certainly is teaching hate in actions and mindset, to me that is nothing more than a pre-teen pre-terrorist training camp.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Bone and Bob, how you bastards can turn a positive into a negative. I make no apology for my language, Bergs daughter only deserves praise and nothing less.
I believe my exact words were:
I have no problem with the volunteers. I liken them to members of the Peace Corps and I truely believe their intentions are honorable.
Maybe the word honborable means something different down under. What about bastards?
Bonehead
 

daedong

New member
Bob you fail to understand your own contradiction. Study post 13 again, points by you that I highlighted in blue.

On the one hand you accuse her of sympathy while on the other hand you use her own unsympathetic words in your argument.
 

daedong

New member
I have no problem with the volunteers. I liken them to members of the Peace Corps and I truely believe their intentions are honorable. I just feel that they are being used, as Bob said, "to spread sympathy" for their host's cause. Remember Saddam and his "guests"? Many of these people were being used as human shields.
Bone

Sorry Bone, you supported what bob said. Once again I say she has shown no sympathy for their cause.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
Vin, read the words "BEING USED". I did not say that she had SHOWN sympathy. I slso used the analogy of HUMAN SHIELDS. Maybe you don't have enough violent crime down there, but human shields are INNOCENT PEOPLE that are USED for defensive puposes.
Bone
 

daedong

New member
Vin, read the words "BEING USED". I did not say that she had SHOWN sympathy. I slso used the analogy of HUMAN SHIELDS. Maybe you don't have enough violent crime down there, but human shields are INNOCENT PEOPLE that are USED for defensive puposes.
Bone

I have no problem with the volunteers. I liken them to members of the Peace Corps and I truely believe their intentions are honorable. I just feel that they are being used, as Bob said, "to spread sympathy" for their host's cause. Remember Saddam and his "guests"? Many of these people were being used as human shields.
Bone

She is a volunteer
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Vin, she is physically a volunteer. She is being used as a psychological tool to spread sympathy to the west for the plight of the Palestinians. The two do not contradict each other.

Nor do I contradict myself when I say I am sensitive to the fact that the Palestinians do not have a homeland but I also believe that Isreal has the right to exist. Believing both things are not mutually excuslive.
 

daedong

New member
Vin, she is physically a volunteer. She is being used as a psychological tool to spread sympathy to the west for the plight of the Palestinians. The two do not contradict each other.

Well the fact is see is not spreading any sympathy, You quoted her own words, seems to me she told how it is, certainly not brainwashed either.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
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Vin, take a breath and read what I wrote. The brainwashing is happening to the children. The volunteers, will very likely return to their homes and talk about the children and the plight of the homeless/landless Palestenians. There is no question that the volunteers are being 'used' by the camp organizers to spread the word of the plight of the residents.

As for you false assertation that she is not showing sympathy, here are some of her own words . . . "it was organized in a huge educational center run by the PLO on the outskirts of Damascus. This center is a welfare center for widows and children of palestinian martyrs . . . to see these small and innocent children in drawing class drawing martyrs being killed by israeli soldiers, or theater plays involving massacres . . ."

Seems to me that if she believes that they are 'martyrs' then she is showing sympathy. By the way, many western nations consider the organzation that sponsored this 'summer camp' to be an officially listed terrorist organization. The PLO is known for all sorts of atrocities itself. I did have a private meeting with former British Prime Minister John Major quite a few years ago, we discussed Yassir Arafat in that conversation and the Prime Minister implied that Mr. Arafat was not just a terrorist, but was also both irrational and insane.
 

daedong

New member
Vin, take a breath and read what I wrote. The brainwashing is happening to the children. The volunteers, will very likely return to their homes and talk about the children and the plight of the homeless/landless Palestenians. There is no question that the volunteers are being 'used' by the camp organizers to spread the word of the plight of the residents.

As for you false assertation that she is not showing sympathy, here are some of her own words . . . "it was organized in a huge educational center run by the PLO on the outskirts of Damascus. This center is a welfare center for widows and children of palestinian martyrs . . . to see these small and innocent children in drawing class drawing martyrs being killed by israeli soldiers, or theater plays involving massacres . . ."

Seems to me that if she believes that they are 'martyrs' then she is showing sympathy. By the way, many western nations consider the organzation that sponsored this 'summer camp' to be an officially listed terrorist organization. The PLO is known for all sorts of atrocities itself. I did have a private meeting with former British Prime Minister John Major quite a few years ago, we discussed Yassir Arafat in that conversation and the Prime Minister implied that Mr. Arafat was not just a terrorist, but was also both irrational and insane.
:yum::yum::yum::yum::yum::yum::yum::yum::yum::yum:
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Berg,
I can't help but wonder, is this from your daughter, or is it something you've found and shared with us here on ForumsForums? The reason I even wonder this is that I have no idea what you wrote in the top of your post as I don't know the language used.
 

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
GOLD Site Supporter
An online Norwegian tanslator comes up with this..

hello,
I duplicate and am gluing in reisebrevet I've typed at bloggen paa facebook , veracious in case you no matter am online there. That is a mere aa be sorry that it is the paa british , but am easier aa draw up this kinds gear paa british afterwards flesteparten at consignee reading british.

I'm guessing 'paa' should be 'på' which is on or in.
 

BoneheadNW

New member
An online Norwegian tanslator comes up with this..

hello,
I duplicate and am gluing in reisebrevet I've typed at bloggen paa facebook , veracious in case you no matter am online there. That is a mere aa be sorry that it is the paa british , but am easier aa draw up this kinds gear paa british afterwards flesteparten at consignee reading british.

I'm guessing 'paa' should be 'på' which is on or in.

Well that clears it up completely! On your knees Vin!:3_7_11v: :yankchain:
Bonehead
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Does it matter if it is Berg's daughter? Or a blog? Or a friend? Seems to me it doesn't matter at all. Personally I think it would probably be a great experience for anyone to participate in, but it should be viewed for what it really is. I love to learn about others and am fascinated by politics, religion and history and this type of volunteerism gives exposure to all those things.

Despite the great opportunity, it clearly appears to be volunteering at an indoctrination camp that teaches hate of another race/religion. The camp seems to be a precursor, or stepping stone, to terrorist training camps and the fact that it is sponsored by a terrorist group, and exists in a state defined as one that supports terrorism makes it all that much more suspicious.

Still, I hope Berg's daughter had a great time, it would be a learning experience. However, I also hope that she saw it for what it was, I'm not sure that she really did. She wrote a balanced letter, but still used words that makes it seem as though she is sympathetic to the cause, and there is no question that the underlying cause is ultimately terrorism.
 

1948berg

New member
Berg,
I can't help but wonder, is this from your daughter, or is it something you've found and shared with us here on ForumsForums? The reason I even wonder this is that I have no idea what you wrote in the top of your post as I don't know the language used.

The Norwegian part was ment for us, her parents.

Jeg kopierer og limer inn reisebrevet jeg har skrevet til bloggen paa facebook, sann i tilfelle dere ikke er online der. Det er bare aa beklage at det er paa engelsk, men er lettere aa skrive denne slags ting paa engelsk siden flesteparten av mottakerne leser engelsk.

The letter is from my doughter Helene, born 3,April 1977. What she says in norwegian in the beginning of the letter is;

I copy and glue in my travelouge I have written to the blog on facebook, just in case you are not online there. Sorry it is in English, but its easier to write these sort of things in English, as most of the receivers read English.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=515806007&highlight
 

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Thanks for the clarification Berg. Congrats on having a daughter active in volunteerism. She is doing her part to try to make the world a better place for us all. :applause: :applause: :tiphat:


Does it matter if it is Berg's daughter? Or a blog? Or a friend?

From your view perhaps it didn't matter ... from my point it did. So I requested clarification.
 
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