Hello ST4 Snow trac owners ~ Engine Overheating Issue

tortoise7 · Feb 12, 2007

mtmogs:
check and see if the small diameter pipe that runs through the fan housing and carries the throttle cable is still there.
this piece looks like it belongs in this pipe and helps to keep the pipe in place.

as far as the drop-down resistor, that unit was in place but not
utilized for the coil, prior to the 12volt conversion.

the flat shield sheet metal is identical to the one in my 1970 military st4.... this may be a military improvement (?) over the civilian models.

regards;
kris

William Barrett · Feb 13, 2007

Wow you guys really know your stuff, the shroud isnt there, and there are no venting tubes that come from or go into the shrouded area, there is also remnants of a gasket on the top of the air intake. I guess my dad would like to find a diesel to place in it, other wise sell it. What would it be worth?, anybody? its a #133 i believe from the 1960 year.

Melensdad · Feb 13, 2007

William Barrett said:
What would it be worth?

William, I regularly see Snow Tracs from a low of perhaps US$5000 to US$15,000 depending on condition. I'd suspect that some exceptional examples could go over $20,000USD (take a look at Arlow's unit in B.C. or Gordon's unit in New York). So condition is everything in terms of value. I would generally say the "big" wheel versions are slightly more desireable than the early "small wheel" versions, but not a lot more valuable.

William Barrett said:
I guess my dad would like to find a diesel to place in it

VW makes a small diesel engine, I have no idea on the cost or how to mate it to the ST4's transmission. We have a member who put in a Toyota engine (was large and required modification of the hood & surrounding sheet metal), and another couple of reports here of installing a Subaru engine (which fit perfectly and provided lots of power).

Seems to me you have 3 choices.
A) Replace the missing parts in your Snow Trac to fix the overheating problem (cheapest option)
B) Swap the engine (most expensive)
C) Sell it as is for whatever you can get for it.

Please keep us informed. If you do an engine swap, it would make a great discussion topic and we'd love to see the whole process discussed here (with photos). If you decide to repair it by replacing parts, I'm sure folks here would also love to see that, and will try to help you sorce parts and offer advice. And if you want to just sell it, we constantly have folks here looking for Snow Tracs to restore/rebuild.

William Barrett · Feb 13, 2007

I will have to inform him of his options, I did a bit of cruzin on the net last night, and you could buy adapter kits for VW motors, I also have a toyota motor from my car lying around, will have to see how much energy he would like to put into it. thanks for your input, I also heard some subaru will fit, will also have to do some research on the topic. Bill

mtmogs · Feb 13, 2007

tortoise7 said:
mtmogs:
check and see if the small diameter pipe that runs through the fan housing and carries the throttle cable is still there.
this piece looks like it belongs in this pipe and helps to keep the pipe in place.

as far as the drop-down resistor, that unit was in place but not
utilized for the coil, prior to the 12volt conversion.

the flat shield sheet metal is identical to the one in my 1970 military st4.... this may be a military improvement (?) over the civilian models.

Thanks for the info Kris. I haven't spotted a small hunk of pipe but will hunt around in there some more. It may have dropped or slid up the cable.

That's interesting that your other military ST4 has the same front shield. I wonder what motivated the change from the standard design? There's probably a story there, but if Lyndon doesn't know it, then nobody probably does.

Incidentally, I posted some pics of your old machine in it's new environs in this section (first trip in ST4 + pics). We are really enjoying it, although a trip to the cabin just isn't the same anymore without the sweat and the 2-cycle snowmostink.

Many Thanks - Paul

Lyndon · Feb 13, 2007

I do not recognize the brass bushing. It could be some Military part, not in the service manual.

As for the Engine Conversion, I had a machine with a Rabbit water cooled and aftermarket manufacturers make adapters to adapt vertually every make of engine to the VW Transaxel. An ST4 with a 90HP Jetta TDI would really scoot. I tried running a 1776, roughly 80 HP VW engine in a 1960 and it was outstanding. You could pretty much drive the thing in just 3rd and 4th gears. Top speed was about 30, which is flying for a 'Track Rig'. St4's have 2 brake drums to stop a 2800 pound mechine, where as VW used 4 to stop a lighter car. They realy are lacking in the brakes department. Many owner neglect having operational brakes which usually results in a lot of front end damage. The Front end isn't especially tough in one of these machines and they really suffer. About 75% of all the ST4's I've looked at that were used for hunting had enough Front End Damage that I would not even consider them as candidates for restoration.

mtmogs · Feb 13, 2007

Keeping with the topic of overheating, is anyone else lucky enough to have a piece of sheet metal blocking their front grille, or is it just me??? I'm thinking that this is a cold weather operation feature, like one you'd want in Norway, and not the lower 48 in the US (okay well maybe in Wyoming). Since this snowtrac was used in Norway, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I wonder if Kris has the grille blocked off in his military unit.

Melensdad · Feb 13, 2007

I wonder if Ice Queen can find out about the metal plate. If that Snow Trac came from Norway then it was not a US military spec Snow Trac, it was probably used by the Royal Marines under NATO. Philip Chaterfield is a friend of Anita (Ice Queen) and is an expert in Royal Marine/NATO Snow Tracs as his father was the man who ran the tests and spec'd out the Snow Tracs that were used by the British Military.

mbsieg · Feb 13, 2007

Look at mtntoppers trac master does that have the tin shield ??? I think it does???

mtmogs · Feb 13, 2007

mbsieg said:
Look at mtntoppers trac master does that have the tin shield ??? I think it does???

mbsieg, Indeed it does and is appropriate for yours and Bill's temps down in the Bighorns. It may be a bit toasty for us up here in the banana belt in NW Montana LOL! Incidentally, I haven't seen the front plate in any of the parts manuals.

Bob, Anita was very helpful with identifying my ST4. It was used by the Royal Marines in Norway initially in 1975. There's a thread here somewhere where she posted some pics of its "brothers" of the same production run on duty in Norway. Maybe she will know more about how these units might have been specially outfitted for the UK military.

tortoise7 · Feb 13, 2007

Hi Paul,
Glad to see that you folks are enjoying your new ride.

I checked the throttle cable routing on my rig and it does
indeed have a press fit bushing in the end of a thin pipe that runs through the fan housing. (this bushing keeps the pipe in place as it goes through at an angle with the front lower than the rear....remember... front on a vw engine is towards the transmission...)

There is sheet metal behind the grill on my unit, same as yours.

Both of our st4s were imported from Great Britian at the same time along with a third unit, it would be interesting to learn what you find out about your rig.

regards;
kris

mtmogs · Feb 13, 2007

Hi Kris,

Thanks for looking. I did locate the thin pipe. It slid back on the cable. I guess the bushing holds it in place.

Yes, we really are enjoying this amazing machine. By the way, does your ST4 have the sheet metal tin in back of the front grille? If I had to guess, I'd say the tin blocking the grille, plus the shorter front "shield" (as Lyndon calls it) are modifications designed to work together. Blocking the front grill keeps heat from the muffler from escaping up and out the front, and the short shield lets more of that heat get to the engine.

Thanks - Paul

Melensdad · Feb 14, 2007

mtmogs said:
Bob, Anita was very helpful with identifying my ST4. It was used by the Royal Marines in Norway initially in 1975. There's a thread here somewhere where she posted some pics of its "brothers" of the same production run on duty in Norway. Maybe she will know more about how these units might have been specially outfitted for the UK military.

You might want to send a "PM" to Ice Queen with regards to these questions, it might take her some time to get the answers from Philip, but it sure would be interesting to find out why your unit has these differences in design.

mtmogs · Feb 14, 2007

B_Skurka said:
You might want to send a "PM" to Ice Queen with regards to these questions, it might take her some time to get the answers from Philip, but it sure would be interesting to find out why your unit has these differences in design.

Will do Bob. By the way, shouldn't you be out enjoying the snow?

Melensdad · Feb 14, 2007

mtmogs said:
shouldn't you be out enjoying the snow?

I was out yesterday afternoon and then again last evening.

We got and honest 12" snowfall, with drifts as deep as 3 to 4 feet. Schools are closed for the 2nd day in a row (something I can't ever remember happening). The main reason the schools are closed is drifting snow. The north-south roads are pretty clear, but the east-west roads are a nightmare! You can get through most of them with a 2wd vehicle, but there are plenty of side roads that I wouldn't dare driving down without 4x4 drive (or a Snow Trac).

One thing I learned last night is that my windshield wipers are WORTHLESS.

The blades are fine, but the arms are simply too short. I'll have to find some longer wiper arm assemblies that will mount up to the VW motor pivots so I can install longer blades. But I can't install longer blades without the longer assembly arms. I took some photos but have not pulled them off the memory card yet.

mtmogs · Feb 14, 2007

B_Skurka said:
One thing I learned last night is that my windshield wipers are WORTHLESS.

Glad you're enjoying the snow. Wipers have been the week link on all my vehicles. Yesterday I was out blowing snow with the big unimog snowblower. It was about 15 degrees and the snow was powder, easy to blow, but horrible for visibility. You send up a big powder cloud and the wind blows it right back on the windshield where the underpowered wipers can't deal with it (see pic below). Unimog's answer to the snow-on-the-windshield problem was to outfit their dedicated snowblowing machines with a 3rd party (Schmidt Engineering) panoramic cab with a windshield that is tilted forward maybe 20 degrees beyond vertical. I see the wisdom there and wish I had one. The tilit forward windshield is like that on the Antartic A.N.A.R.E. ST's.

mtmogs · Feb 14, 2007

Whoops, see my snow-covered, non-winshield wiping unimog below.

Melensdad · Feb 14, 2007

mtmogs said:
Yesterday I was out blowing snow with the big unimog snowblower. It was about 15 degrees and the snow was powder, easy to blow, but horrible for visibility. You send up a big powder cloud and the wind blows it right back

I use a 5' snowblower on my tractor to clear the driveway, but we've been having sustained winds of 25-30 miles per hour with gusts that have been well over 40mph so I didn't bother to put the blower on the tractor to clear the drive. I've been using a rear blade in combination with a front loader and just pushing the snow to the side and then piling up hills when I can't push any more off to the side.

As for the wipers on the Snow Trac, mine are obviously the wrong assemblies. But last year I don't think I ever drove it during a storm :17875:

This year I've driven it several times during snowfalls and it is very clear that I need to make a change! I think the ANARE solution of a custom cabin would be ideal . . . but I don't foresee rebuilding the cabin to allow for a reversed windshield. So I'll just settle for proper lenght wiper assemblies and longer wiper blades.

Lyndon · Feb 14, 2007

Ever see an Unimog with 'Rotary windshields'? There was one for sale in Vermont.

mtmogs · Feb 15, 2007

Lyndon said:
Ever see an Unimog with 'Rotary windshields'? There was one for sale in Vermont.

Yep, In fact the '64 Beilhack blower I have was originally mounted on one of those rotary windshield machines in the German air force like the one shown below. It looks a little goofy, but I hear the wipers are pretty effective. The blower engine is in fantastic shape. Ran great as soon as I discharged a flaming rat nest out of the exhaust. Spread hantavirus all over the neighborhood I reckon. It's a neat little Mercedes Benz 120 hp turbo diesel. Sat in the back of a car dealership in Sun Valley for who knows how many years.

mtntopper · Feb 15, 2007

mtmogs said:
Glad you're enjoying the snow. Wipers have been the week link on all my vehicles. Yesterday I was out blowing snow with the big unimog snowblower. It was about 15 degrees and the snow was powder, easy to blow, but horrible for visibility. You send up a big powder cloud and the wind blows it right back on the windshield where the underpowered wipers can't deal with it (see pic below). Unimog's answer to the snow-on-the-windshield problem was to outfit their dedicated snowblowing machines with a 3rd party (Schmidt Engineering) panoramic cab with a windshield that is tilted forward maybe 20 degrees beyond vertical. I see the wisdom there and wish I had one. The tilit forward windshield is like that on the Antartic A.N.A.R.E. ST's.

Mtmogs,
Is this what your Unimog looks like when really working. Do you have the twin side chutes along with the main chute? Here is a picture of my neighbors Case/Unimog with the Schmidt snow blower running by my gate. It also has about zero visibility out the front when the wind blows the snow back on the windshield. He uses it very sparingly and prefers to run the grader when possible. But, the Unimog will move 8+ foot drifts that the grader struggles with.

mtmogs · Feb 15, 2007

mtntopper said:
Mtmogs,
Is this what your Unimog looks like when really working. Do you have the twin side chutes along with the main chute? .
View attachment 10578

That's a nice rig that your friend has! We both have the same prime mover but his blower has at minimum an OM352A turbo diesel engine @~160hp, or the bigger OM366(??) @~295 hp. Pound for pound, you won't won't find a more efficient snow mover. His little machine will move a few thousand tons per hour! My blower wasn't made for a Case Unimog so I had to modify it considerably, from the complete driveline to mounting/lifting system. Your friends looks like it must be a twin fan design also? I only have the side chutes on my rig. I've been meaning to fab a central chute like your friends, but a sudden interest in snow tracs derailed those good intentions.

I'm surprised he has a problem w/visibility. Considering the wind down there, I'd just point the chutes straight up, and the snow will touch down in the midwest somewhere! Here's one of the few "action" shots I have:

Lyndon · Feb 15, 2007

That Military Unimog is identical to the Military one I saw in Vermont. The Dealer in Rutland Vt. had purchased it from an airbase in the desert and it had vertually never been used. I saw it in the 80's, and it was a '62.

Snowcat Operations · Feb 15, 2007

Is that the Porsche powered Snow Trac? Must be. Any info on her? :letitsnow:

mtmogs said:
Glad you're enjoying the snow. Wipers have been the week link on all my vehicles. Yesterday I was out blowing snow with the big unimog snowblower. It was about 15 degrees and the snow was powder, easy to blow, but horrible for visibility. You send up a big powder cloud and the wind blows it right back on the windshield where the underpowered wipers can't deal with it (see pic below). Unimog's answer to the snow-on-the-windshield problem was to outfit their dedicated snowblowing machines with a 3rd party (Schmidt Engineering) panoramic cab with a windshield that is tilted forward maybe 20 degrees beyond vertical. I see the wisdom there and wish I had one. The tilit forward windshield is like that on the Antartic A.N.A.R.E. ST's.

mtmogs · Feb 15, 2007

Snowcat Operations said:
Is that the Porsche powered Snow Trac? Must be. Any info on her?

Snowcat Ops: Yes it is. You probably know more than I do about this lady. I just copped the picture off a thread in this forum:

http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=3058&highlight=antartica+porsche

Hello ST4 Snow trac owners ~ Engine Overheating Issue

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