"Sunward" solar hot water system (kit)

I went to visit Ice Queen in Wales and she has a solar hot water collection system and was unhappy with it. I was, and have always been intrigued by such systems. So recently while thumbing through a copy of Mother Earth or some similar magazine I saw an advertisement for the SUNWARD brand solar hot water system. It comes as a kit, professional installation recommended but someone handy could likely do this themselves.

http://www.gosunward.com/

The system comes with 2 collector panels, 1 heat exchanger, 1 storage tank. The price is $6499.

What does not come with the kit is a roof mount $699 -or- a steel frame ground mount $1099 -or- a timberframe mount $1499. You need one of those three mounts.

There are modest shipping charges, there are also modest charges for additional tubing if that is required.

So figure your basic system is going to cost roughly $7500 with shipping.

Not sure about you folks but I only spend about $220 per month (actually slightly less) for my COMBINED natural gas and electric costs, this amount for a roughly 4000sq ft home. Not really sure what % of those costs are GAS versus what % are ELECTRIC but the last time I checked the GAS portion of the bill was substantially less than the ELECTRIC portion. So just a guess, let's presume that I spend $75 per month for GAS. And my current water heater is a 75 gallon natural gas unit. Assume that it consumes 40% of my total natural gas. That means that I spend roughly $34 per month on heating water. I can apparently save up to 85% of my water heating budget, so that means I can reduce my $34 bill down to roughly $5.00. Or I can save $29 per month or roughly $350 per year.

Again, the cost of this is $7500 + INSTALLATION. Assume $2000 for installation for a TOTAL COST of $9500.

BUT WAIT . . . there is a federal tax credit of 30% that I can save. So that actually cuts the price of this unit down, including installation, to a NET total of $6650.00.

So, I can spend $9500 up front, after filing taxes I get a savings that brings my cost down to $6650.00, in exchange for that I can save roughly $350 per year. ASSUMING that the unit is trouble free and requires no repairs, it would take me 19 years to BREAK EVEN based on my current energy costs.

Assuming my energy costs go up, which is likely, it would still take 10 to 15 years to BREAK EVEN.

Assuming that I have to borrow money (home equity loan/refinance my mortgage/etc) to install this, then there are interest costs that come into play.

SO, based on my evaluation of this SUNWARD unit, based on my energy costs, based on my home usage, investing in a SUNWARD solar hot water heater system is really a HUGE HONKING WASTE OF MONEY unless I keep this house until I die. Now your energy costs may be dramatically different than mine and mine conclusions may not be valid in YOUR situation. I think this is worth looking into, if your conditions are favorable then I think this might be worth buying. Just not for me. I'd really like to find a system that works for me, be it a wind generator, a solar collector, photovoltaic panels, etc. So far none that I see are remotely close to cost effective. I'm going to keep looking.

I serviced 2 customers who had similar systems installed. They work but one fella said he would need 35 years to pay for the costs involved. You can do a passive storage system to preheat and hold your incoming water to an existing water heater for a lot less. I used a 80 gallon galvanized water tank next to a wood stove in the basement for 22 years at my old farm. It cut my electric consumption so dramatically they came out to check my meter. I saved about $45-50 a month when I was burning wood. Paid for itself in about 1 1/2 years. Added bonus was all the sediment from the spring collected in that tank instead of the water heater. Even during the summer it helped warm the water from ice cold to room temp before it entered the water heater.

up here i have a month of almost no daylight and several months of short days how ever i also have 24 hour days of sun too my average cost per month foe heating oil is $400 and my electric sets me back another 250 so i thinkone of those might be a good investment how ever the one unknowen expence is the shopping not modest at $1.50 per pound.

I think that there are probably areas of this country where natural gas is not cheap and easily available and where sunshine is abundant, in those cases it probably makes a lot more sense to look at solar water heating. People on propane probably would have a quicker payback. People who use fuel oil or electricity for heating water certainly would have a much quicker payback and far more energy savings by using a solar water heater. I guess I'm just lucky to have modest energy costs in my area, that makes 'alternative fuels' uneconomical and unviable.

Guys ! Just get a instant hot water heater in propane or natural gas and forget it . They are the way to go . I now have them in 2 of my 3 homes and also in my cabin and they work great .
You can pick one up for under $400 on Ebay . Its the best thing I ever did !

Natural gas and propane costs are rising every year. 10 yrs ago a gas pack central air heater was a good deal. Now, it would be insane to buy one.

loboloco said:

Natural gas and propane costs are rising every year. 10 yrs ago a gas pack central air heater was a good deal. Now, it would be insane to buy one.

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Try buying a electric one !!!!
The only time my hot water cost me is when I turn on the hot water valve . A standard hot water tank is 40% of your total energy bill .

Yea , I agree a solar hot water system is great but it will never pay for itself .
My last instant hot water heater cost me under $200 bucks . I saved move than that in the first year of use . Besides , I can walk in the ranch house and have instant hot water . Try doing that with any other system for the price .

Solar would be the way to go, but it is still too expensive for most people. I can see it paying for itself if you have a high usage, but god made my swimming hole and he didn't install heater coils.

loboloco said:

Solar would be the way to go, but it is still too expensive for most people. I can see it paying for itself if you have a high usage, but god made my swimming hole and he didn't install heater coils.

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LOL!

Hello, I'm a tech rep here at Sunward Solar, thought I'd add a couple of thoughts to the thread. For Melensdad, unfortunately Indiana does not offer state incentives towards renewables at the present time . On the fortunate side, you're in a state with very low natural gas costs, so your energy picture is a quite a bit more favorable than most. That said, even the numbers for you will tumble a little better than you may think at first glance. Assuming that your energy costs grow an average of 4.9%/year from here (a middle of the road number), you would save a total of $16,475 over the 25 year life of the system. A great investment? Perhaps not for you, but it compares favorably to the same money invested in a CD over the same period. (Don't forget that when you save money on energy, you're saving after tax dollars, since we pay our energy bills with after tax earnings.) If you installed the system yourself, your net cost after the tax rebate for the system and a ground mount kit (we don't recommend DIY roof mounting) would be about $5,200. This would speed the payback quite a bit.

Some of the other forum contributors have a better situation. loboloco is very fortunate -- South Carolina offers a 25% state tax credit in addition to the 30% Federal Credit. Not sure of the fuel source loboloco use, but if electricity or propane is being used for hot water the cost recovery here could be 5 years or less -- and the savings could add up to another $15K in cash over the remaining life of the system. We have a map on our site that can help you see the numbers. This page also helps explains how the savings work, including calculators.

The bottom line is that we know Solar Hot Water is not right for everyone, but it has far and away the best return on investment of any renewable. It's also heavily subsidized by incentives, which will eventually run out. Best first step? Add insulation to your home. But Solar Hot Water is a close second. Hope this helps.

SunwardSolar said:

Hello, I'm a tech rep here at Sunward Solar, thought I'd add a couple of thoughts to the thread. For Melensdad, unfortunately Indiana does not offer state incentives towards renewables at the present time . On the fortunate side, you're in a state with very low natural gas costs, so your energy picture is a quite a bit more favorable than most. That said, even the numbers for you will tumble a little better than you may think at first glance. Assuming that your energy costs grow an average of 4.9%/year from here (a middle of the road number), you would save a total of $16,475 over the 25 year life of the system. A great investment? Perhaps not for you, but it compares favorably to the same money invested in a CD over the same period. (Don't forget that when you save money on energy, you're saving after tax dollars, since we pay our energy bills with after tax earnings.) If you installed the system yourself, your net cost after the tax rebate for the system and a ground mount kit (we don't recommend DIY roof mounting) would be about $5,200. This would speed the payback quite a bit.

Some of the other forum contributors have a better situation. loboloco is very fortunate -- South Carolina offers a 25% state tax credit in addition to the 30% Federal Credit. Not sure of the fuel source loboloco use, but if electricity or propane is being used for hot water the cost recovery here could be 5 years or less -- and the savings could add up to another $15K in cash over the remaining life of the system. We have a map on our site that can help you see the numbers. This page also helps explains how the savings work, including calculators.

The bottom line is that we know Solar Hot Water is not right for everyone, but it has far and away the best return on investment of any renewable. It's also heavily subsidized by incentives, which will eventually run out. Best first step? Add insulation to your home. But Solar Hot Water is a close second. Hope this helps.

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Thanks for the input Solar dude ! Start a thread on whats new and upcoming for solar off grid homes . I would love to see that .
Welcome to the group !!

SunwardSolar said:

Hello, I'm a tech rep here at Sunward Solar, thought I'd add a couple of thoughts to the thread. For Melensdad, unfortunately Indiana does not offer state incentives towards renewables at the present time . On the fortunate side, you're in a state with very low natural gas costs, so your energy picture is a quite a bit more favorable than most. That said, even the numbers for you will tumble a little better than you may think at first glance. Assuming that your energy costs grow an average of 4.9%/year from here (a middle of the road number), you would save a total of $16,475 over the 25 year life of the system. A great investment? Perhaps not for you, but it compares favorably to the same money invested in a CD over the same period. (Don't forget that when you save money on energy, you're saving after tax dollars, since we pay our energy bills with after tax earnings.) If you installed the system yourself, your net cost after the tax rebate for the system and a ground mount kit (we don't recommend DIY roof mounting) would be about $5,200. This would speed the payback quite a bit.

Some of the other forum contributors have a better situation. loboloco is very fortunate -- South Carolina offers a 25% state tax credit in addition to the 30% Federal Credit. Not sure of the fuel source loboloco use, but if electricity or propane is being used for hot water the cost recovery here could be 5 years or less -- and the savings could add up to another $15K in cash over the remaining life of the system. We have a map on our site that can help you see the numbers. This page also helps explains how the savings work, including calculators.

The bottom line is that we know Solar Hot Water is not right for everyone, but it has far and away the best return on investment of any renewable. It's also heavily subsidized by incentives, which will eventually run out. Best first step? Add insulation to your home. But Solar Hot Water is a close second. Hope this helps.

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I am interested in your system here in bush alaska we heat off of jet-a wich runs 4.50 per gallon our problems up here are extreem cold and winter months with short days we also have summers with round the clock daylight does you system run glycol through a loop or are you heating water directlyalso what are the problems with roof mounting when on the ground with out a 10 foot electric fence around it i can see little hoodlems climbing on it or throwing rocks at it.

Alaska is feast or famine when it comes to solar. On the days where you have at least 6 hours of sunlight, you'll make a fair bit of solar hot water. Obviously in the summer you'll have A LOT of solar hot water, and in the dark winter little or none. Our system uses glycol, so is freeze tolerant to -55 degrees F (your part of Alaska may be just too cold in the winter -- this is worth double checking.) If I can toot our horn for a minute, one additional advantage of Sunward is that we power the glycol pump with a small PV panel that is attached to the solar collectors. Many other systems use AC pump(s), which can create a parasitic drain that uses up to 15% of the energy you save from making solar hot water. Furthermore, even if the electrical power is down, you'll still be making hot water (although you may need a generator to power your water pump.)

Although we designed the Sunward system for easy installation, we discourage roof mounting for Do-It-Yourself (DIY) for 2 reasons: 1. It involves working on a roof, a potentially dangerous activity for those without experience or the right safety gear, and 2. it involves making a penetration in the roof to run the glycol and control wires, and those without the proper skills could end up with a leaky roof. Obviously there are plenty of folks who have these skills, or are contractors themselves. But we do recommend a pro for the roof.

Alaska does not have a state tax incentive for Solar Hot Water, but it does offer low interest loans for energy efficiency programs.

Please feel free to contact us by phone or email for more info: www.GoSunward.com

Do you guys also set up solar electric systems ?????

We do not manufacture solar electric (PV) systems, but many of our installation partners for solar hot water are also credentialed PV installers. In several states we have a special deal worked out for savings on PV -- I'm not sure if "You can't get there from here ...." is one of them!

We're part of the same company that makes DR Power Equipment (actually our system is assembled in the same factory in Vermont as many of the DR tools), and there's a special web site with a PV offer for DR equipment owners here: www.GoSunward.com/PV

I can't speak for anyone else .but we have lots of members who are always discussing ways to set up their remote cabins for power . I myself have a "off the grid home" in Panama on a island . Any new or upcoming solar information that you could provide would be great . Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions .

My pleasure. I'll make sure we keep an eye on the forum and pitch in info if have something helpful to share. Thanks.

SunwardSolar: Thanks for finding this thread and jumping in.

Me, I'm going to keep on searching for something that will work for me. Solar electric, wind power, solar water??? Eventually something should work for me and be economically viable.

Melensdad said:

SunwardSolar: Thanks for finding this thread and jumping in.

Me, I'm going to keep on searching for something that will work for me. Solar electric, wind power, solar water??? Eventually something should work for me and be economically viable.

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I'm like Bob, every couple of years I dig into alternative power systems and cost it all out but always come up with the same answer. Nothing is economically viable. Maybe someday soon something will become available. After talking to Bobcat (whatever happened to him) I even toyed with a micro-hydro system. Now that would be cool.

Hey, Sunwardsolar guy, thanks for your input.

my hhot water runs through a boiler loop mu idea with solar water heater was to plumb it intoo my glycol loop to assist the boiler and mabe substitute it on the days when we have enoughh sun as it is still not getting above 40 degrees and my eskimo wife is a tender foot likes the house around 80 degrees or better my house faces north and south so a roof mounted system would collect sun around the clock in the summer to get the most out of a system like this here i would have to have a thermostat to take the system out of the loop when there is not enough heat to add to the system. alse here on the coast in nome temp rarly dips below -30.