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Bob Barr on Health Care

Bobcat

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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Yup, a shameless political plug. :rolleyes:

Bob Barr on: Health Care

Access to affordable, quality health care is an important objective. For this reason, some politicians have pushed for government programs to extend health care benefits to those who cannot afford or who otherwise do not maintain private medical insurance. These efforts come on top of taxpayer-subsidized benefits in the form of Medicare and Medicaid.

There are many causes of today’s high healthcare cost “crisis”. Medical care costs more than it should; access to insurance is more limited by government than it should be; the practice of medicine is more regulated than it should be. The American health care system desperately needs to be treated for ill health.

Our health care policy should be reformed based on the principle of consumer-oriented health care. Regulations which mandate insurance coverage and inflate premiums should be eliminated. Controls which unduly restrict competition within the health care industry, and that limit access to insurance across state lines, should be ended. Moreover, current tax policy, which is biased towards employer-provided, comprehensive health insurance, should be reformed, encouraging individual purchase of less costly catastrophic policies.

Federal health care programs, most notably Medicare and Medicaid, have become financially unsustainable. These programs need to be transformed to emphasize patient choice, focus on the truly needy, and add cost-saving incentives. Here, too, market principles should be applied to bring better quality health care at less cost.

Today’s health care problems are complex, but the solution is not socialized medicine in any form. Countries that have nationalized their medical systems inevitably ration care through the political system; costs are driven down only by denying needed care.
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www.lp.org
www.bobbarr2008.com
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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Why stop at providing 'free' health care for all? Why not 'free' food for all? 'Free' housing for all? People need food and shelter as much as they need healthcare. Why not make it all 'free'? Let's do it right. Pool all the money and have all goods and services distributed by the govt! Your utopian dream, no?
 
daedong

daedong

New member
Bobcat said:
Why stop at providing 'free' health care for all? Why not 'free' food for all? 'Free' housing for all? People need food and shelter as much as they need healthcare. Why not make it all 'free'? Let's do it right. Pool all the money and have all goods and services distributed by the govt! Your utopian dream, no?
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Once again you nearly have it right No one in our society should go hungry or without sheller.
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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And you would like to take whats needed by force from those who might have freely given anyway?
 
AndyM

AndyM

Charter Member
I already solved the health care "crisis" in the "Bob Barr on Marriage" thread...


Since Vin established that there should be NO marriage regulation, one person with really good medical insurance can marry all the men and women who lack medical insurance, add them to their carrier's family coverage, and presto... Everyone in this country is covered!
Heck, marry all of the house pets too... except for a co-pay, no more vet bills!
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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daedong said:
Could you please rephrase this so I can understand exactly what you are saying.
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Any govt law is a threat of force. I might have more to spend on charity if the govt didn't take so much from me, under the threat of force, and spend it more frivolously than I would.

How much do you freely give each year to someone to see that they do not go hungry or without shelter? I give thousands each year, and do so without the overhead of a govt or large organization redistributing it. I give directly to whomever needs it without being asked and without being forced. What's taken from me in taxes IS taken with the threat of force, and I know it isn't spent as well as what I give independently.

I've noticed that your ability to understand the written word seems to falter when exposed to ideas that extend beyond socialism. :rolleyes: :poke:
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Bobcat said:
Any govt law is a threat of force. I might have more to spend on charity if the govt didn't take so much from me, under the threat of force, and spend it more frivolously than I would.

How much do you freely give each year to someone to see that they do not go hungry or without shelter? I give thousands each year, and do so without the overhead of a govt or large organization redistributing it. I give directly to whomever needs it without being asked and without being forced. What's taken from me in taxes IS taken with the threat of force, and I know it isn't spent as well as what I give independently.
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Well said, well said. :thumb: s up


We just seem to be taking more and more from not the wealthy but the ones that truly work and give it to the ones that don't work. As Bob said as I have done in the past, I give. I don't mind giving to those the seriously need it but I hate giving to those that lay around the house and complain. Taking from the ones that work only depresses them and they give up hope and soon there will be nothing to give to the ones that truly need it.
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

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I think Vin has run off to consult his copy of Das Kapital for a viable retort. :rolleyes: :poke:
 
daedong

daedong

New member
Bobcat said:
Any govt law is a threat of force. I might have more to spend on charity if the govt didn't take so much from me, under the threat of force, and spend it more frivolously than I would.

How much do you freely give each year to someone to see that they do not go hungry or without shelter? I give thousands each year, and do so without the overhead of a govt or large organization redistributing it. I give directly to whomever needs it without being asked and without being forced. What's taken from me in taxes IS taken with the threat of force, and I know it isn't spent as well as what I give independently.

I've noticed that your ability to understand the written word seems to falter when exposed to ideas that extend beyond socialism. :rolleyes: :poke:
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I pay what ever federal tax is required to provide array of assistance to my fellow Australian family. In fact there is a cases here (regarding our health system) where I actually believe that taxes should be increased. As a citizen of this nation it is not only in my interest but is critical for a healthy and stability of the country. On top of that it is the only fair and equitable way that assistance can be administrated to those in need without discrimination. You as an individual handing out money indiscriminately with little if any research is certainly not the fairest and most efficient way of dealing with social problems.

Also unlike you, I have faith in my government and the democratic system we have. for sure there are times when the government makes mistakes and ****s things up but because we have a functional democratic society they are corrected readily.
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
Vin, in all seriousness isn't there a time or will there be a time when you get sick of your government upping the annie continuously. Will there be a time when you say enough is enough? Will you see some day the abuse in the system and that corrections won't be made anymore. Will there be a time when you see people abusing the system more and more and the percentage of dollars taken versus what is issued out because of paper work?
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

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I don't take issue with too much you say here, as it shows a benevolent interest in your fellow man, except...

daedong said:
<snip>
You as an individual handing out money indiscriminately with little if any research is certainly not the fairest and most efficient way of dealing with social problems.
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You have nothing with which to base this. Why do you say it? If I personally know someone in need, and know exactly what that need is, and help them take care of it, how is it indescriminate, without research, unfair, or inefficient? I assume these assumptions are based on your socialist upbringing that says only govt is capable of social engineering or benevolence on any scale.

daedong said:
Also unlike you, I have faith in my government and the democratic system we have. for sure there are times when the government makes mistakes and ****s things up but because we have a functional democratic society they are corrected readily.
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I too have faith in my democratic system. That is why I was able to take an oath to try to help correct its mistakes and ****ed-up things within the system rather than by force. Unfortunately, one of the most ****ed up things right now is the 'two-party system' which is limiting our ability to correct things. We're working on it...


Also, unlike you, I have paid all taxes demanded of me and filed for all licenses, permits, and registrations that are supposedly required for the good of the community, whether I agree with them or not. :poke:
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

Je Suis Charlie Hebdo
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daedong said:
Where you to Bob looking up your anarchist bible
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You seem to not know the boundary between freedom/liberty and anarchy. Our Constitution, which I whole-heartly accept as the law of the land, pre-empts anarchy.

anarchy
-noun
1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy.
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.
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I do have a copy of the anarchist cookbook, but just for fun. :hide:
 
Bobcat

Bobcat

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Gotta run out for some prime rib before the Dems make it illegal because of health concerns and the effect it will have on the healthcare system...:rolleyes: See you in a few.
 
daedong

daedong

New member
thcri said:
Vin, in all seriousness isn't there a time or will there be a time when you get sick of your government upping the annie continuously. Will there be a time when you say enough is enough? Will you see some day the abuse in the system and that corrections won't be made anymore. Will there be a time when you see people abusing the system more and more and the percentage of dollars taken versus what is issued out because of paper work?
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A bit like what I think Bob is saying when things are not right kick the government out.

Bob I did state Federal, in this country local government pretty much does nothing for the people other than collect the trash.
 
daedong

daedong

New member
Bobcat said:
You have nothing with which to base this. Why do you say it? If I personally know someone in need, and know exactly what that need is, and help them take care of it, how is it indescriminate, without research, unfair, or inefficient? I assume these assumptions are based on your socialist upbringing that says only govt is capable of social engineering or benevolence on any scale.
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What about the person in need that you don't know about, that is why your approach is indiscriminate.
 
AndyM

AndyM

Charter Member
daedong said:
What about the person in need that you don't know about, that is why your approach is indiscriminate.
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Does the government know about every person in need?

The local person not only knows whether his neighbor is in need, but also if that need is truly legitimate.

One individual helping another 50 feet away works better than a department of people making those determinations from thousands of miles away.
 
AndyM

AndyM

Charter Member
thcri said:
What about the guy that doesn't need but yet has the courage to cheat the system?
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What about the guy who needs but is too proud to ask?
The government can't see the need but those who are close by can.
 
daedong

daedong

New member
Wasting my time I think, but what about the situation where many people lose their jobs in one district due to a factory closing, who is going to help them?
 
thcri

thcri

Gone But Not Forgotten
daedong said:
Wasting my time I think, but what about the situation where many people lose their jobs in one district due to a factory closing, who is going to help them?
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Unemployment insurance helps them. That is already in place and has been for years. Does it keep you on the same pay scale as what you were making, No? But better than nothing.

We are in a time where out government can not be adding taxes but finding ways to help everyone with less government. Government programs have gotten way out of hand with a lot of waste. Just taxing all the time is never going to fix anything as there isn't going to be any money for taxes soon.
 
S

Spiffy1

Huh?
SUPER Site Supporter
daedong said:
Wasting my time I think, but what about the situation where many people lose their jobs in one district due to a factory closing, who is going to help them?
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There is already Unemployment Insurance - paid for out of your [supposedly employer's, but the math comes out the same] paycheck and doled out by government job centers. Then, depending somewhat on the state, all sorts of laws, like 6 weeks paid 'closure warning.' etc. etc.

Cobra health care [expensive because you pay the portion previously paid by your employer plus the portion you had paid] continues your insurance.

A better plan: let's allow businesses to run profitably and stop having so many plants close. :hammer:
 
Deadly Sushi

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
SUPER Site Supporter
Free healthcare ONLY for the employeed that are drug free, with no addictions.....and the elderly. Everyone else must move to Mexico
 
daedong

daedong

New member
Bobcat said:
I give thousands each year, and do so without the overhead of a govt or large organization redistributing it. I give directly to whomever needs it without being asked and without being forced.
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Just curious, is there any tax benefit?
 
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