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Electrical Advice - Lost Power on Circuit

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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So my wife and I were watching TV tonight and the lights and power flickered a few times and we lost power in only the basement corner of the house. I reset the breaker but the power is gone in that corner.

Other than the breaker (Tandem 15AMP ITE QT - Siemens Panel) anyone think it could be anything else. Basically, I'm looking for suggestions before I head down to the hardware store tomorrow.

Thanks,

PB
 

BigAl

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Switch the suspect breaker with one of equal amps and that you know is working . That way you can at least know if you have a breaker or wire problem .
Also is this a sub panel ??
 

fogtender

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You could have your plugs having the power going to them in a chain, the wire may have come loose in the first plug of the series. Put a tester in each room plug with the breaker on, and when you find a hot one, turn off the breaker and see if that one goes out, if so, the wire may be loose in that unit to the rest of the room. Just a thought.

Last night I was installing two new three way switches at the top of the stairs, got the job done and was cleaning up the wiring with the power and lights on before I resheetrocked it back over. Was re securing the power lines and had a handfull of them and getting ready to tap the staples in with a hammer, being really carefull not to put one through the hot wire, after the first hit with the hammer, the lights started flashing. Was trying to get away from the handfull of wires ASAP thinking something was coming loose and not fall down the stairs while doing so...

My wife was at the bottom of the stairs flipping the switch on and off to see if they worked yet....

Needless to say I was a tad PO'd...
 
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muleman

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Those tandem breakers have a bad track record . Do you have a GFI in that circuit anywhere? Do you have a tester to see if you have power coming off the breaker? That would be the first thing I would look for. Then start tracking the wire from outlet to outlet with a tester. A bad outlet up the line from the one for the tv could be the trouble spot.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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There is not GFI on the circuit and I don't have another tandem of the same amperage to swap it with. The other one in the panel is a 15/20. I think a new breaker will be less than $20 so that will probably be the first thing to try and then I can do more trouble shooting from there.

I've never had a breaker fail without any warning before but I guess it can happen. I sure hope it wasn't a mouse chewing on a line.

Fog - that's exactly what my wife would be doing too. And then she would get mad at me for yelling at her to stop. ;)
 

REDDOGTWO

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I have had it happen once where a breaker just failed, at the time I had no idea what the problem was, my brother in law showed up with a breaker and fixed the problem in short order.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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Well it wasn't the breaker. I put a new one in and nothing happened.

I dusted off the multimeter and sure enough I'm getting 120V out of the breaker (Yeah should have thought of that last night but I'm blaming it on the beer).

Now I'm pulling apart outlets and switches and trying to find a live wire. I have one more switch to tackle but of course my 5 year old decided to get sick today. Actually, first it was the dog barfing in the dark area of the basement and now the kid.

I guess that's what extension cords are for.

I think the new rifle scope I was planning to buy will probably make nice payment to an electrician. :(

This is the time of year for mice to get inside the walls - I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
 

jwstewar

Active member
Be careful PB. Though our house fire was officially listed as undetermined, if I were a betting man, I would be on a mouse getting in the house and chewing on a wire in the computer. During the fall of the year we would typically get 2 or 3 in the house and I had seen evidence of them chewing on speaker wires before. We hadn't seen any that year yet, but they had just harvested some of the fields around us that week.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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Be careful PB. Though our house fire was officially listed as undetermined, if I were a betting man, I would be on a mouse getting in the house and chewing on a wire in the computer. During the fall of the year we would typically get 2 or 3 in the house and I had seen evidence of them chewing on speaker wires before. We hadn't seen any that year yet, but they had just harvested some of the fields around us that week.


I've got tons of poison around but I do live in the country and there is only so much you can do once they get in the walls. Every time I have opened a wall for any reno work I've left behind bait cubes.
 

BigAl

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So what your saying is none of the outlets on that breaker have power ? That would mean the problem lies between the breaker and the first outlet in line . Are you 100% sure you don't have a GFI plug in a bathroom that tripped ? A lot of homes I have seen had that setup . I have seen some strange wiring set ups in the past .
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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So what your saying is none of the outlets on that breaker have power ? That would mean the problem lies between the breaker and the first outlet in line . Are you 100% sure you don't have a GFI plug in a bathroom that tripped ? A lot of homes I have seen had that setup . I have seen some strange wiring set ups in the past .

Yes, if there is going to be done odd - it will be in this house.:glare:

Everything on this circuit is dead, No visible GFI's. I've reset all the GFI's just in case. I just finished checking one last "obvious" line (a switch box with a three way that controls the ceiling lights) and had a line with around 10V on it. I'm not sure what that means.

Yes, I turn the breaker off while messing with the wires and just turn it on for testing.

I also found out that our DVD player fried when the power went out.

I have to get the ladder and check some light fixtures in the ceiling. Maybe they are where the power is coming in and that is why I got the 10V on that switch? :smileywac
 

BigAl

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Yes, if there is going to be done odd - it will be in this house.:glare:

Everything on this circuit is dead, No visible GFI's. I've reset all the GFI's just in case. I just finished checking one last "obvious" line (a switch box with a three way that controls the ceiling lights) and had a line with around 10V on it. I'm not sure what that means.

Yes, I turn the breaker off while messing with the wires and just turn it on for testing.

I also found out that our DVD player fried when the power went out.

I have to get the ladder and check some light fixtures in the ceiling. Maybe they are where the power is coming in and that is why I got the 10V on that switch? :smileywac

The power usually comes into a 3 way switch in one box or the other but not at the light itself . Sounds like some kind of a back feed thing going on maybe . Reverse polarity???
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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The power usually comes into a 3 way switch in one box or the other but not at the light itself . Sounds like some kind of a back feed thing going on maybe . Reverse polarity???


That's what I would think. This is daylight basement so maybe they did something weird. I don't know. It's free to poke a multi-meter around.

I'm probably just putting off the inevitable. The pro will walk in a diagnose it in a few minutes, and make me feel dumb. That's how it usually works. :neutral:
 

OhioTC18

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PB,
If everything on that circuit is dead and you know that for sure, you have a loose neutral somewhere in the circuit if you see 10V at one point. A 3-way switch is a bad place to test for 120V because of the numerous ways to wire them. Do you have a little neon test light that checks for just the hot wire?

If you lost a neutral, nothing works but it does tend to fry electronics.

If you know exactly what is on the circuit, open everything up including light fixtures. Then turn the breaker back on and try to find the first thing on the circuit. Reconnect it and then go to the next. And so on.
 

Jim_S

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Outlets are a common place to find loose wires.

The ones where the installer can push the stripped wire into a hole with spring tension instead of using the screws are notorious for loosing connection.

Jim
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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PB,
If everything on that circuit is dead and you know that for sure, you have a loose neutral somewhere in the circuit if you see 10V at one point. A 3-way switch is a bad place to test for 120V because of the numerous ways to wire them. Do you have a little neon test light that checks for just the hot wire?

If you lost a neutral, nothing works but it does tend to fry electronics.

If you know exactly what is on the circuit, open everything up including light fixtures. Then turn the breaker back on and try to find the first thing on the circuit. Reconnect it and then go to the next. And so on.

Thanks TC,

All I have is multimeter for testing.

When you say open up, Do you mean disconnect the wires from the outlets too? I started just probing the wires from the sides of the outlet with the multi-meter to see if anything showed 120V. It works on a "good" circuit.

I thought if I can find a hot wire somewhere then I would know where the circuit started but maybe I'm thinking wrong.

Should I try the outlet the DVD player was plugged into since it did get fried? It's kind of at the far end- or at least what I thought was the end of the circuit.
 

OhioTC18

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Yes disconnect everything. Leave all the wires hang out. Turn the breaker back on and find the feed. Then reconnect everything one at a time.
 

bczoom

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All I have is multimeter for testing.
Ummm, you have a finger. Lick it and stick it in there. You'll find whether things are hot or not.
Sorry... I hope we don't have to move this to the MLR because of that comment :hide:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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Yes disconnect everything. Leave all the wires hang out. Turn the breaker back on and find the feed. Then reconnect everything one at a time.

Will do. Not sure when I can get to that. It may have to wait until Saturday.

Thank you! :thumb:

PB
 

BigAl

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Hell I'll be in portland next tue and wednesday . Is that close to you ? I'll come over and find the problem :w00t2:
 

muleman

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Is the neutral and ground for that circuit tight in the panel box? Are the wires exposed that you can follow them in the ceiling? Back stab outlets are worthless. If you have enough wire just strip them back a little farther and loop them around the screws. I never use the back of outlets. You can release the wire from the back stab by using a piece of #12 copper and putting it in the hole alongside the back stabbed wire to release the grippers.
 

BigAl

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Is the neutral and ground for that circuit tight in the panel box? Are the wires exposed that you can follow them in the ceiling? Back stab outlets are worthless. If you have enough wire just strip them back a little farther and loop them around the screws. I never use the back of outlets. You can release the wire from the back stab by using a piece of #12 copper and putting it in the hole alongside the back stabbed wire to release the grippers.

I think that is a #14 wire .
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

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There are a few "back stabs" but most of the outlets are screwed. The switches have been backstabbed. I'll probably just use the screws when I put everything back together.

I'm going with the sage advice of TC and will just gut the place on Saturday.

Al, yes I am close to Portland. I'll figure these fugazin wires out over the weekend. However, if you want to meet for some tofu (or whatever it is you are eating these days) just let me know. I don't really know any healthy places to eat but can ask around.
 

DaveNay

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Have you tried rebooting? Do you have the symbols file? You might be able to step through it in debug mode.
 

jpr62902

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Ummm, you have a finger. Lick it and stick it in there. You'll find whether things are hot or not.
Sorry... I hope we don't have to move this to the MLR because of that comment :hide:

In my experience, licking the test finger isn't necessary. It just makes it hurt more.
 

BigAl

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Al, yes I am close to Portland. I'll figure these fugazin wires out over the weekend. However, if you want to meet for some tofu (or whatever it is you are eating these days) just let me know. I don't really know any healthy places to eat but can ask around.

I gave the wife a concert Tickets to Elton John and we are going to see him . I would love to meet up while we are there . I will not eat TOFU !!!! She is looking at some really ugly fat calorie places to eat from the Diners, Driveins and Dives show . Its as close as I will get to Seattle for quite some time unless you want to come to Panama or Haiti ???:unsure:
 
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