Junkman said:I have heard about these new circuit breakers that are required in certain applications, but I know nothing about them. Can someone fill us in on what they are, how they work, where to use them, etc????? thanks.... Inquiring minds need to know...... Junk...........
rico304 said:If they change code to make all circuits arcfault, I can only imagine the problems everyone will have. I've heard of a bunch of ceiling fans that trip them, heaters, etc.. (I know they trip if the heater is on when you plug it in, but people have TOLD me that it happens when they turn it on properly) I hope they make some changes to the breaker if they change code.
I would imagine they would have to do an arcfault outlet instead of breaker as well. That would add a bunch of $$$ to a panel after you add 20-30 arcfault. (at an extra 20+ dollars per breaker)
OhioTC18 said:DAmn Junk,
You're trying to really test me tonight aren't ya?
Arc Fault Breakers are now required for any circuit that supplys anything in a bedroom. Lights, fans, smoke detectors, outlets, whatever. They actually detect an arc in the wiring or the appliance/device. They will sense a line break and also a line to neutral arc or line to ground arc.
I understand from a reliable source that soon arc fault breakers will soon be mandatory for ALL circuits in the house.
Next code cycle will allow an AFCI device, but it will have to be installed within 6' of the panel and the feed to be in conduit of some type.
They are much more reasonably priced now than when they first came out. They were in the hundreds of dollars at one time. Now they're down to $30-60 depending on brand.
badge142 said:Hate to tell you but that infomation is wrong. NEC states that only outlets are required to be arc faulted in bed rooms of new homes. This is a change from the original code that stated everything in a bedroom will be arc faulted. This is due to the arcs that happen when you open or close a switch or when a ceiling fan motor is turned on or off. Now as to the whole house being arc faulted nonsence every type of heating element, vacume, switch blender mixer, coffee maker so on and so on... will trip the fault bue to the internal spark. So save your self some time from a do over Junkman, and only fault the outlets. If you need the code titles let me know
Badge142
OhioTC18 said:.....................
Arguing with an Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while, you figure out the pig loves it.
Junkman said:Inspector....... Badge 142 is a PIG!!!!!!
OhioTC18 said:I'm wrong?.....News to me and the code making panel that wrote it. Kindly read the definition of "outlet" in the NEC, article 100 my friend. "A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment". That means lights, fans, receptacles, smoke detectors, etc.
Arguing with an Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while, you figure out the pig loves it.
rico304 said:So now I'm confused. I understand that GFCI is different beast. But you don't have to run GFCI to solo circuit like a fridge or a sump pump for fear it will trip. What is the difference between that and an arcfault to a smoke detector? I know for fact ceiling fans will trip arcfault. No arguing that one. If that is on same circuit as smoke, light, fridge, sump, or other lights, you just lost the entire circuit. Arcfault does trip often. If you had something to do with the writing of NEC, how does it work around that?
Seems like we will have many circuits tripped.
Also I checked out an arcfault today at HD. $55 for a 20A! Wow! LIke I said earlier, that is an additional (give or take) $500 per panel.
Badge is an electrician, I'll run these by him as well.
Just seems like the cart might be put in front of the horse.
OhioTC18 said:I'm wrong?.....News to me and the code making panel that wrote it. Kindly read the definition of "outlet" in the NEC, article 100 my friend. "A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment". That means lights, fans, receptacles, smoke detectors, etc.
Arguing with an Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while, you figure out the pig loves it.
OhioTC18 said:Badge142,
I'll give you the fact that local rule can apply in a lot of places that have their own codes. However, you did write that the NEC states.......
Local code can change whats enforced, but it cannot change the wording in the NEC. So maybe we were both right.......in part
Junkman said:I like cops and inspectors.......... I don't like roasted pigs.... Now, can someone please tell me in simple words what they both said??????
Junkman said:I like cops and inspectors.......... I don't like roasted pigs.... Now, can someone please tell me in simple words what they both said??????
DaveNay said:They both said yes.