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Help, having sticker shock!

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
When I built my house back in '92, I couldn't afford to do all of the rooms in hardwood floor that were in the plans. So, some of the rooms got carpet rather than the hardwood. I've been so busy building our pool, pool house, etc. that I've neglected to finish the wood floors. Now I do have to agree with Mrs. Dargo that the carpet in our master bedroom is done.

Since I knew that we were going to have a large family, I used wood that I'd seen mostly in commercial settings. The product specifically is Hartco Pattern Plus oak (random lengths) in ginger color. It is an engineered wood product that impregnates the wood with acrylic. That makes it much more dent resistant, water resistant, durable, and unfortunately, expensive wood floor. Here is a link to what I have in all my halls and several rooms:
http://www.armstrong.com/commflooringna/product_details.jsp?category=wood&item_id=396

I’m not sure if Armstrong bought out Hartco or what. I’m confused as to why I get Armstrong when doing a search for what I need.



My master bedroom, which is next on the list to get hardwood flooring, is approximately 17’ X 34’. That gives me 578 sq. ft. without counting the closets. I have most of one box left, so I figure that an even 600 sq. ft. would do my project. I was going to have a contractor do the job until I got an estimate of just over $9100. Maybe it’s just me, but that price just sort of chokes me in a big way.



That is the reason why I will be doing this job myself. Does anyone have any insight as to where I may find the best deal on buying this product? After 13 years of fairly heavy traffic and abuse by 5 kids and a few dogs, it has required zero maintenance and looks every bit as good now as when it was installed. When I built the house, I paid $4.37 per sq. ft. for the product, not including any underlayment, glue, labor etc. It has gone up a bit since then. Since I will be joining the hallway with the same product, I have to stay with this product to match. Where can I find my best deal?
 

Archdean

New member
Dargo, As a onetime owner of a Home Center (late 80's early 90's ) I sold a lot of flooring products, Some Armstrong Products I could buy direct some I had to buy from a distributor!

My personnel favorite is Bruce hardwood flooring, several years ago I moved to OK and redid the floors in my Lake Home in hardwood, Bruce of course!! Last year I decided to remove the kitchen tile and match the oak between Dining and living room!!

Well it was then I learned about the recent major changes in the flooring industry!! Armstrong in particular! Most are now under the umbrella of Armstrong and several lines have been dropped from production . My random width gun stock with pegs in particular!! (see pics)

The best price I have found is At HD or Lowes and only at certain times !! Note HD is prohibited from carrying the same styles /names as lowes and vice versa!!

Good luck and if I can be of any help just ask!!

Dean
 

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Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo said:
The product specifically is Hartco Pattern Plus oak (random lengths) in ginger color.

Dargo, one of my fraternity brothers in college was related to the people who owned controlling interest in Hartco. Granted that was more than a couple years ago and things may be changed substantially. Let me check with him. I'll send you a PM if I get any specific information.

But as you are very specific about what Brand you need (Hartco), it seems like you need specific answers to your specific question.
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
I will be joining the hallway with the same product, I have to stay with this product to match.

I think having the continuity throughout your house is gunna be the hard part, that pretty much means that you HAVE to have the same brand, not some stuff from down HD or Lowes
As far as that goes they can pretty much charge you what they like, they know youve got to have that brand.
Sorry I cant actually help with your question, actually, why the heck did I post if I cant add anything, ah well, gets me a higher post count I suppose! :D
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
My suggestion is to look for transition opportunities and change things up with some different shade of wood. Maintaining continuity between the old and new over this many years is gonna take a lot of work.
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo,

Are there any large builders around you that might be able to put your needs on one of their orders? I'm thinking of a builder that's doing a whole sub-division and therefore gets better pricing.

Also, not sure as much about the wood products but dye lots may be important. What you get now (and I would get it all in the same dye lot) may be a slightly different color then what you currently have.

Brian
 

Archdean

New member
In case my point made was missed I'll try to restate it for you! Armstrong in paticular has almost exclusively reserved their hardwood production products to Big Box Retailers consequently other distributors and retailers are not viaiable under the new system of distribution!!

It undoubtedly makes their buisness less burdensome for a limited production high quality intensive manufactured item!

This trend is a relatively new phenomena in maximizing resourses in marketing!! WW started it by offering manufactures a one account concept!! You make, we will take all you can make at $X /makes sense to them!!

Thank you,

Dean
 

Archdean

New member
$7.48 is about right for an independent wholesaler/distributor/ proves the point as to my last statement!!

I just paid $3.00 less on a big box store concert promotion with bruce (Armstrong) for a 1000 sq feet!!

Dean
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I have been out looking at a product my attorney suggested. Good lord, what a cheap bastard he is! :eek: The stuff he had me look at was priced at around $3 a sq. ft.; and it showed! Danged plastic crap. And to think that he actually does have the stuff in his house :yum:. Nothing wrong with the cheap stuff, but this guy knocks down some pretty healthy bucks! Gees o Pete!

Bob, if it's a guy you went to school with, he must be older than dirt! I mean, you were, what, 12 years ahead of me. :whistle: I'm still not clear on the Hartco / Armstrong thing. The good thing is that I picked up a sample of current production while I was out, and it matches perfectly with my existing stuff. I'm glad it's not like brick. Everytime I need to do something with brick, the brick I'd previously used is no longer made. :mad:

Tomlescoequip, thanks for the link and reference price. I've emailed a couple of places to ask for price quotes now. At least I'll have some idea.

Dean, thanks for the reply, but I must be really dense. I'm not clear on what you're telling me. Maybe I'm just in too much shock right now. All I can see is that I'm not getting my concrete driveway this year. :(
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Brian, there are 3 different restaurants around here and at least one hotel that uses the exact same stuff. All I need is to find one that is building and using a few thousand sq. ft., and try to snag onto their pricing. I guess it should tell me something when most places can get it, but don't carry it in stock. I get the same look and they say that "we don't stock that, but we can special order it for you."
 

johnday

The Crazy Scot, #3
SUPER Site Supporter
Brent; I see a place called Lumber Liquidators advertised from time to time. I've never bought anything from them, or know much about them, but it might be a source. Try a search for them.:tiphat::beer:
 

Archdean

New member
"Dean, thanks for the reply, but I must be really dense. I'm not clear on what you're telling me. Maybe I'm just in too much shock right now. All I can see is that I'm not getting my concrete driveway this year. :(

__________________
Sorry about the driveway!! What I am saying is this /all places CAN get it !! But they can't stock it for the reasons that you have already articulated .. THEY CAN"T MATCH THE PRICE!!! so why look the fool and sit on it!!

Armstrong doesn't want the hassel of Joe blow's home center / flooring store in Podunk Indiana calling up and ordering 6 boxes of (X) like I used to do!!

Wait for or coerce the BIG BOX store of your choice to sell it to you at under 5 bucks a foot and pick it up in less than 2 weeks!!

Hope this clears all of that up!!

Dean
 

TOMLESCOEQUIP

Just Plinkin Away the $$
All I can see is that I'm not getting my concrete driveway this year. Brent.........you don't want them pouring concrete right now anyway...I'd wait till 2006...sometime when it's warmer !
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I bought my oak hardwood flooring from Lumber Liquidators. I don't think they carry Armstrong/Bruce. They carry no-name brands or that stuff that Bob Villa pushes. Price was cheaper than HD or Lowes for pre-finished stuff but you don't get name brand and I doubt I'll be able to match it exactly later.
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
Wood floor arrives tomorrow. Any guesses on a completion date for me having it all installed? Tomorrow will be 1/20/06. Who wants to venture a guess as to when I finish installing the floor? Remember, this will only be the floor in my master bedroom. Guesses?
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
Dargo said:
Wood floor arrives tomorrow. Any guesses on a completion date for me having it all installed? Tomorrow will be 1/20/06. Who wants to venture a guess as to when I finish installing the floor? Remember, this will only be the floor in my master bedroom. Guesses?

Is this laminate or full thickness?

If it is full thickness, I sure hope they wait a few weeks with the material unwrapped and stacked inside the house in the living area to allow it to stabilize to the same humidity/moisture content as the rest of the house. I have seen several people who did not allow for this, and they ended up with large gaps or a buckling floor where the new wood shrank or grew after a short time.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
DaveNay said:
. . .wait a few weeks with the material unwrapped and stacked inside the house in the living area to allow it to stabilize to the same humidity/moisture content . . . I have seen several people who did not allow for this, and they ended up with large gaps or a buckling floor where the new wood shrank or grew after a short time.


Due to the new information, I revise my estimate: 1/20/2009 :eek:
 

Mith

The Eccentric Englishman
SUPER Site Supporter
buckling floor where the new wood shrank or grew after a short time.
Guilty, what a mess, pulled it all up, it broke all the skirting boards and damaged the plaster, now its OK, learn from my mistakes, do exactly what it says on the box
 

bczoom

Super Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Before I take a guess...

Where will Mrs. Dargo be sleeping and where will her clothes be?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Ok on a serious note. It will take one solid weekend. I say that because I put down 2 Pergo floors. One was 25 by 16, the other was half that size. The main body of the floor will take less than a day, the cutouts for floor vents, trim around the doors, etc will take another day.

This all assumes you have all the furniture out, etc. But given that the wife and kids are out of your way, a weekend.

And when you are done, drive north. The lovey Mrs_B is seriously considering a bamboo floor in our dining room.
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
When I did my last floor I had a bay window and an odd angled wall that slowed things down a little. I think it took about three solid days. I'm not a pro so if you are really good you can probably do it in two but I also suspect your master bedroom is pretty big.

My money is on 3-4 days if you are taking your time.

Stock up on Advil Liquid Gel caps - your back is going to be sore.
Is this the first time you are doing hardwood?
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
I got a nice start to getting the floor down. I have one hell of a mess and stuff laying everywhere, but the part that is down looks good. Now a question; is there a difference between regular super glue and medical super glue? I had a small problem with a wood chisel and don't have time to go get stitches. I poured rubbing alcohol over and into the wound (man, I forgot how nice that feels) and super glued it closed. The darn glue burned more than the alcohol at first, but seems to be holding for the most part. It is still seeping blood if I use it too much.

My wife tells me the there is a difference in medical super glue and the regular stuff I used. Is that true? If I'm going to die, I need to get off of this break and get more of the floor done.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Dargo, I know of many people who use regular super glue to seal wounds so if it is different, I don't know, but I know people use the regular stuff.

As for the floor: :weneedpic


BTW, I have one more thing to blame you for. The lovely Mrs_B would now like a hardwood floor in her newly decorated dining room.
 

DaveNay

Klaatu barada nikto
SUPER Site Supporter
B_Skurka said:
BTW, I have one more thing to blame you for. The lovely Mrs_B would now like a hardwood floor in her newly decorated dining room.

Make sure you get pictures for us as she installs it. :yum:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
Dargo said:
I got a nice start to getting the floor down. I have one hell of a mess and stuff laying everywhere, but the part that is down looks good. Now a question; is there a difference between regular super glue and medical super glue? I had a small problem with a wood chisel and don't have time to go get stitches. I poured rubbing alcohol over and into the wound (man, I forgot how nice that feels) and super glued it closed. The darn glue burned more than the alcohol at first, but seems to be holding for the most part. It is still seeping blood if I use it too much.

My wife tells me the there is a difference in medical super glue and the regular stuff I used. Is that true? If I'm going to die, I need to get off of this break and get more of the floor done.

Screw the pictures of the floor. I want pictures of the wound!

I'm pretty sure the medical super glue is different but hey whatever you've got in a bind. Keep it clean and watch for puss. It will probably just make the wound scar a little worse. Too late to do much about it now.

What were you using a chisel for? There's got to be a power tool for whatever you want to do!

For me, it's just not a home improvement project unless it has some of my blood on it.

:nopics:
(wooooh - new smiley!)
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
From a site on the internet that is probably not the best source but seemed to be objective:

"(Quinn & Kissick, 1994) Current use: Although not labeled as such, over-the-counter Super Glue products contain methyl alcohol, because it is inexpensive to produce. Cyanoacrylates cure by a chemical reaction called polymerization, which produces heat. Methyl alcohol has a pronounced heating action when it contacts tissue and may even produce burns if the glue contacts a large enough area of tissue. Rapid curing may also lead to tissue necrosis. Midwives have not noted such reactions because minimal amounts are being used for perineal repair. Nevertheless, with a greater toxic potential, over-the-counter products are inappropriate for use in wound closure. (Quinn & Kissick, 1994) "

http://www.fensende.com/Users/swnymph/refs/glue.html
 

Dargo

Like a bad penny...
GOLD Site Supporter
PBinWA said:
From a site on the internet that is probably not the best source but seemed to be objective:

"(Quinn & Kissick, 1994) Current use: Although not labeled as such, over-the-counter Super Glue products contain methyl alcohol, because it is inexpensive to produce. Cyanoacrylates cure by a chemical reaction called polymerization, which produces heat. Methyl alcohol has a pronounced heating action when it contacts tissue and may even produce burns if the glue contacts a large enough area of tissue. Rapid curing may also lead to tissue necrosis. Midwives have not noted such reactions because minimal amounts are being used for perineal repair. Nevertheless, with a greater toxic potential, over-the-counter products are inappropriate for use in wound closure. (Quinn & Kissick, 1994) "

http://www.fensende.com/Users/swnymph/refs/glue.html

Great. No wonder it burned more than alcohol. :eek: I didn't use it where a midwife would, but I did use a relatively minimal amount. If you don't believe me about the burning part, give yourself a nice cut and squirt some of the ole super glue in the wound and see if you don't make some sort of face. :thumb:

Back to work. Bleeding stopped. :1062:
 

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq

Master of Distraction
Staff member
SUPER Site Supporter
I was going to make a comment about how the perineal region was so close to the a$$hole and that made me think of you but I don't know you well enough for that kind of witty insult! ;)
 
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