-
Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/
Global Warming . The debate is over !
- Thread starter nixon
- Start date
Nixon, it's coming up as an error for me.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
Got it!! 
Very interesting...
The tree probably survived as a result of several factors: the generally cold and dry climate, few forest fires and relatively few humans.
Very interesting...
The tree probably survived as a result of several factors: the generally cold and dry climate, few forest fires and relatively few humans.
Hopefully it has better success than this old tree. 
Sir Knight
New member
Well pretty much as I have been complaining about all along!
Don't know how truthful it is, but can't be anymore off than the charts and bogus stuff that Gore has been pedaling... Bet the "Church of the Global Warming" lost a lot of converts this last winter on the East Coast....
Don't know how truthful it is, but can't be anymore off than the charts and bogus stuff that Gore has been pedaling... Bet the "Church of the Global Warming" lost a lot of converts this last winter on the East Coast....
daedong
New member
Both Cliff Harris and Randy Mann have no Degree's to my knowledge in Meteorology or Climatology or any direct subject that may be related to climate change other than self claimed. Go ask the postie (UPS man) for his view, or Fogtender.
They are clever at getting publicity by going against main stream views and saying what people want to hear.
They are clever at getting publicity by going against main stream views and saying what people want to hear.
Sir Knight
New member
Well, I remember reading about the mini ice age in the 1600's back in the 1970's in grammer school.
daedong
New member
A cold shoulder to global warming
Climatologist to discuss findingsClimatologist to discuss findings
Climatologist Cliff Harris in his backyard in Coeur d'Alene on Thursday. (KATHY PLONKA The Spokesman-Review )
If you go
What: The International Weather, Commodity and Real Estate Seminar
When: Friday, 6-9 p.m.
Where: Coeur d'Alene Resort
Details: Climatologist Cliff Harris will talk about global warming and future cooler weather patterns for the Inland Northwest and the rest of the world, and how these changes may affect our lives. Other topics will include how to profit and protect businesses and real estate holdings during these extreme weather patterns.
Cost: $19.95
To reserve a seat: visit www.longrangeweather.com or call 208-664-1109 between 8:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m.
James Hagengruber
Staff writer
February 26, 2007
Unlike most scientists, Coeur d'Alene climatologist Cliff Harris believes snowshoes will be more useful than sunscreen in coming decades.
Yes, the climate is changing, Harris says. But he doesn't believe the planet is being transformed by manmade pollution. He also thinks an ice age is coming, not widespread warming.
"These cycles have come and gone for eons of time and they'll continue to do that," said Harris, 64. "Thirty years ago people were looking for an ice age. … In my opinion, this is another cycle that will come and go."
Harris is not a trained scientist – he studied insurance law in college – but he has one of the most extensive collections of private weather records in the Northwest, and he's built a successful business off his long-range weather predictions. He also writes a popular weekly weather column for the Coeur d'Alene Press.
On March 2, Harris will be the keynote speaker at a seminar in Coeur d'Alene focused on profiting from these rapidly changing weather conditions.
The seminar is hosted by Randy Mann, a KREM-2 meteorologist and a weekly columnist for The Spokesman-Review. Mann also has doubts about the severity and cause of the earth's changing climate. The two will be joined by author Robert Felix, whose book "Not By Fire, But By Ice" warns "the next ice age could begin any day."
Harris and Mann, who together operate a climatology service, say they simply want to present their evidence and provide advice to businesses on how to profit during times of extreme weather.
In their view, much of the changes are driven by ancient, unchangeable cycles, as well as increases in solar activity such as sun spots, radiation bursts and volcanoes. Urban sprawl and a proliferation of heat-absorbing asphalt are also factors, they say.
"I'm not saying we're right. We're just trying to say there are other possibilities here," said Mann, who holds a degree in geography. Mann said he believes humans are likely playing a role in the changing climate, but that it's an exaggerated one. But that's not the view of the vast majority of scientists who study the issue. On Feb. 2, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a report stating that global warming is real and that there's a 90 percent certainty human activity is to blame. The panel, which is made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, predicted that sea levels will rise by 7 to 23 inches and temperatures will rise from 3.2 degrees to 7.8 degrees Fahrenheit by the year 2100.
Washington State Climatologist Philip Mote said there have been more than 100 peer-reviewed research papers in last the 15 years examining the influence of natural cycles on the warming climate. "They all show you can't explain this recent warming as purely natural," Mote said.
Solar activity also has been proven to have little effect on the changes, he said. "When you look at all of these patterns and how they play out in time, none of them comes close to explaining the warming that's taken place in the last 30 or 40 years."
Mote laughed at the idea of a coming ice age. "That's just complete …" he said, pausing, "Well, let's see, I've got to be careful because you might print this."
Past ice ages have been triggered by changes in the earth's orbit, Mote said, after gathering his thoughts. These changes can be predicted, he added. The next one is expected in about 30,000 years. "They don't just jump on us the way they did in the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow,' " Mote said. "There's just no basis."
Even if all the research is wrong, Mote said an ice age begins only when snow stops melting in summer in Canada. This isn't happening, he said. In fact, more artic ice is melting away each summer.
Though the Inland Northwest faces massive changes from a warming climate, such as intensified wildfires and more snow-free winters, Mote insists he welcomes differing views. "There's a much needed place for skepticism within the scientific community."
Harris, who began studying the weather when he was 9, said he bases his predictions on a wide array of scientific sources and historical records. He's also a devout Christian and believes the Bible is loaded with clues on predicting the weather.
"I do believe in a period of extreme global warming. That will be in the tribulation period. That's when the real global warming will come in," he said. "Those of us who are believers, we're looking forward to it."
Harris acknowledges that people are playing a role in polluting the atmosphere, but he thinks society would be better off devoting its limited resources on ending poverty, curing diseases or providing universal health care, rather than investing in costly forms of clean energy or curtailing business to reduce carbon dioxide.
"I believe this planet is a breathing entity, made by God, to clean itself, adjust itself," Harris said.
Harris admits he could be wrong, though not likely. "We have a limited knowledge," he said. "The most brilliant climatologist has a gnat's eye view. I admit that. It's just that I have both gnat's eyes open."
Mote, who holds a doctoral degree in atmospheric sciences from the University of Washington, said his views on global warming also are shaped by his Christianity. According to his reading of the Bible, humans ought to err on the side of caution to be doing everything possible to slow the changes.
"It is incumbent on us not to despoil the earth for profit," he said.
Unlike most scientists, Coeur d'Alene climatologist Cliff Harris believes snowshoes will be more useful than sunscreen in coming decades.
Yes, the climate is changing, Harris says. But he doesn't believe the planet is being transformed by manmade pollution. He also thinks an ice age is coming, not widespread warming.
"These cycles have come and gone for eons of time and they'll continue to do that," said Harris, 64. "Thirty years ago people were looking for an ice age. … In my opinion, this is another cycle that will come and go."
Harris is not a trained scientist – he studied insurance law in college – but he has one of the most extensive collections of private weather records in the Northwest, and he's built a successful business off his long-range weather predictions. He also writes a popular weekly weather column for the Coeur d'Alene Press.
On March 2, Harris will be the keynote speaker at a seminar in Coeur d'Alene focused on profiting from these rapidly changing weather conditions.
The seminar is hosted by Randy Mann, a KREM-2 meteorologist and a weekly columnist for The Spokesman-Review. Mann also has doubts about the severity and cause of the earth's changing climate. The two will be joined by author Robert Felix, whose book "Not By Fire, But By Ice" warns "the next ice age could begin any day."
Harris and Mann, who together operate a climatology service, say they simply want to present their evidence and provide advice to businesses on how to profit during times of extreme weather.
In their view, much of the changes are driven by ancient, unchangeable cycles, as well as increases in solar activity such as sun spots, radiation bursts and volcanoes. Urban sprawl and a proliferation of heat-absorbing asphalt are also factors, they say.
"I'm not saying we're right. We're just trying to say there are other possibilities here," said Mann, who holds a degree in geography. Mann said he believes humans are likely playing a role in the changing climate, but that it's an exaggerated one. But that's not the view of the vast majority of scientists who study the issue. On Feb. 2, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a report stating that global warming is real and that there's a 90 percent certainty human activity is to blame. The panel, which is made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, predicted that sea levels will rise by 7 to 23 inches and temperatures will rise from 3.2 degrees to 7.8 degrees Fahrenheit by the year 2100.
Washington State Climatologist Philip Mote said there have been more than 100 peer-reviewed research papers in last the 15 years examining the influence of natural cycles on the warming climate. "They all show you can't explain this recent warming as purely natural," Mote said.
Solar activity also has been proven to have little effect on the changes, he said. "When you look at all of these patterns and how they play out in time, none of them comes close to explaining the warming that's taken place in the last 30 or 40 years."
Mote laughed at the idea of a coming ice age. "That's just complete …" he said, pausing, "Well, let's see, I've got to be careful because you might print this."
Past ice ages have been triggered by changes in the earth's orbit, Mote said, after gathering his thoughts. These changes can be predicted, he added. The next one is expected in about 30,000 years. "They don't just jump on us the way they did in the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow,' " Mote said. "There's just no basis."
Even if all the research is wrong, Mote said an ice age begins only when snow stops melting in summer in Canada. This isn't happening, he said. In fact, more artic ice is melting away each summer.
Though the Inland Northwest faces massive changes from a warming climate, such as intensified wildfires and more snow-free winters, Mote insists he welcomes differing views. "There's a much needed place for skepticism within the scientific community."
Harris, who began studying the weather when he was 9, said he bases his predictions on a wide array of scientific sources and historical records. He's also a devout Christian and believes the Bible is loaded with clues on predicting the weather.
"I do believe in a period of extreme global warming. That will be in the tribulation period. That's when the real global warming will come in," he said. "Those of us who are believers, we're looking forward to it."
Harris acknowledges that people are playing a role in polluting the atmosphere, but he thinks society would be better off devoting its limited resources on ending poverty, curing diseases or providing universal health care, rather than investing in costly forms of clean energy or curtailing business to reduce carbon dioxide.
"I believe this planet is a breathing entity, made by God, to clean itself, adjust itself," Harris said.
Harris admits he could be wrong, though not likely. "We have a limited knowledge," he said. "The most brilliant climatologist has a gnat's eye view. I admit that. It's just that I have both gnat's eyes open."
Mote, who holds a doctoral degree in atmospheric sciences from the University of Washington, said his views on global warming also are shaped by his Christianity. According to his reading of the Bible, humans ought to err on the side of caution to be doing everything possible to slow the changes.
"It is incumbent on us not to despoil the earth for profit," he said.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=176325
Climatologist to discuss findingsClimatologist to discuss findings
Climatologist Cliff Harris in his backyard in Coeur d'Alene on Thursday. (KATHY PLONKA The Spokesman-Review )
If you go
What: The International Weather, Commodity and Real Estate Seminar
When: Friday, 6-9 p.m.
Where: Coeur d'Alene Resort
Details: Climatologist Cliff Harris will talk about global warming and future cooler weather patterns for the Inland Northwest and the rest of the world, and how these changes may affect our lives. Other topics will include how to profit and protect businesses and real estate holdings during these extreme weather patterns.
Cost: $19.95
To reserve a seat: visit www.longrangeweather.com or call 208-664-1109 between 8:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m.
James Hagengruber
Staff writer
February 26, 2007
Unlike most scientists, Coeur d'Alene climatologist Cliff Harris believes snowshoes will be more useful than sunscreen in coming decades.
Yes, the climate is changing, Harris says. But he doesn't believe the planet is being transformed by manmade pollution. He also thinks an ice age is coming, not widespread warming.
"These cycles have come and gone for eons of time and they'll continue to do that," said Harris, 64. "Thirty years ago people were looking for an ice age. … In my opinion, this is another cycle that will come and go."
Harris is not a trained scientist – he studied insurance law in college – but he has one of the most extensive collections of private weather records in the Northwest, and he's built a successful business off his long-range weather predictions. He also writes a popular weekly weather column for the Coeur d'Alene Press.
On March 2, Harris will be the keynote speaker at a seminar in Coeur d'Alene focused on profiting from these rapidly changing weather conditions.
The seminar is hosted by Randy Mann, a KREM-2 meteorologist and a weekly columnist for The Spokesman-Review. Mann also has doubts about the severity and cause of the earth's changing climate. The two will be joined by author Robert Felix, whose book "Not By Fire, But By Ice" warns "the next ice age could begin any day."
Harris and Mann, who together operate a climatology service, say they simply want to present their evidence and provide advice to businesses on how to profit during times of extreme weather.
In their view, much of the changes are driven by ancient, unchangeable cycles, as well as increases in solar activity such as sun spots, radiation bursts and volcanoes. Urban sprawl and a proliferation of heat-absorbing asphalt are also factors, they say.
"I'm not saying we're right. We're just trying to say there are other possibilities here," said Mann, who holds a degree in geography. Mann said he believes humans are likely playing a role in the changing climate, but that it's an exaggerated one. But that's not the view of the vast majority of scientists who study the issue. On Feb. 2, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a report stating that global warming is real and that there's a 90 percent certainty human activity is to blame. The panel, which is made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, predicted that sea levels will rise by 7 to 23 inches and temperatures will rise from 3.2 degrees to 7.8 degrees Fahrenheit by the year 2100.
Washington State Climatologist Philip Mote said there have been more than 100 peer-reviewed research papers in last the 15 years examining the influence of natural cycles on the warming climate. "They all show you can't explain this recent warming as purely natural," Mote said.
Solar activity also has been proven to have little effect on the changes, he said. "When you look at all of these patterns and how they play out in time, none of them comes close to explaining the warming that's taken place in the last 30 or 40 years."
Mote laughed at the idea of a coming ice age. "That's just complete …" he said, pausing, "Well, let's see, I've got to be careful because you might print this."
Past ice ages have been triggered by changes in the earth's orbit, Mote said, after gathering his thoughts. These changes can be predicted, he added. The next one is expected in about 30,000 years. "They don't just jump on us the way they did in the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow,' " Mote said. "There's just no basis."
Even if all the research is wrong, Mote said an ice age begins only when snow stops melting in summer in Canada. This isn't happening, he said. In fact, more artic ice is melting away each summer.
Though the Inland Northwest faces massive changes from a warming climate, such as intensified wildfires and more snow-free winters, Mote insists he welcomes differing views. "There's a much needed place for skepticism within the scientific community."
Harris, who began studying the weather when he was 9, said he bases his predictions on a wide array of scientific sources and historical records. He's also a devout Christian and believes the Bible is loaded with clues on predicting the weather.
"I do believe in a period of extreme global warming. That will be in the tribulation period. That's when the real global warming will come in," he said. "Those of us who are believers, we're looking forward to it."
Harris acknowledges that people are playing a role in polluting the atmosphere, but he thinks society would be better off devoting its limited resources on ending poverty, curing diseases or providing universal health care, rather than investing in costly forms of clean energy or curtailing business to reduce carbon dioxide.
"I believe this planet is a breathing entity, made by God, to clean itself, adjust itself," Harris said.
Harris admits he could be wrong, though not likely. "We have a limited knowledge," he said. "The most brilliant climatologist has a gnat's eye view. I admit that. It's just that I have both gnat's eyes open."
Mote, who holds a doctoral degree in atmospheric sciences from the University of Washington, said his views on global warming also are shaped by his Christianity. According to his reading of the Bible, humans ought to err on the side of caution to be doing everything possible to slow the changes.
"It is incumbent on us not to despoil the earth for profit," he said.
Unlike most scientists, Coeur d'Alene climatologist Cliff Harris believes snowshoes will be more useful than sunscreen in coming decades.
Yes, the climate is changing, Harris says. But he doesn't believe the planet is being transformed by manmade pollution. He also thinks an ice age is coming, not widespread warming.
"These cycles have come and gone for eons of time and they'll continue to do that," said Harris, 64. "Thirty years ago people were looking for an ice age. … In my opinion, this is another cycle that will come and go."
Harris is not a trained scientist – he studied insurance law in college – but he has one of the most extensive collections of private weather records in the Northwest, and he's built a successful business off his long-range weather predictions. He also writes a popular weekly weather column for the Coeur d'Alene Press.
On March 2, Harris will be the keynote speaker at a seminar in Coeur d'Alene focused on profiting from these rapidly changing weather conditions.
The seminar is hosted by Randy Mann, a KREM-2 meteorologist and a weekly columnist for The Spokesman-Review. Mann also has doubts about the severity and cause of the earth's changing climate. The two will be joined by author Robert Felix, whose book "Not By Fire, But By Ice" warns "the next ice age could begin any day."
Harris and Mann, who together operate a climatology service, say they simply want to present their evidence and provide advice to businesses on how to profit during times of extreme weather.
In their view, much of the changes are driven by ancient, unchangeable cycles, as well as increases in solar activity such as sun spots, radiation bursts and volcanoes. Urban sprawl and a proliferation of heat-absorbing asphalt are also factors, they say.
"I'm not saying we're right. We're just trying to say there are other possibilities here," said Mann, who holds a degree in geography. Mann said he believes humans are likely playing a role in the changing climate, but that it's an exaggerated one. But that's not the view of the vast majority of scientists who study the issue. On Feb. 2, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a report stating that global warming is real and that there's a 90 percent certainty human activity is to blame. The panel, which is made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, predicted that sea levels will rise by 7 to 23 inches and temperatures will rise from 3.2 degrees to 7.8 degrees Fahrenheit by the year 2100.
Washington State Climatologist Philip Mote said there have been more than 100 peer-reviewed research papers in last the 15 years examining the influence of natural cycles on the warming climate. "They all show you can't explain this recent warming as purely natural," Mote said.
Solar activity also has been proven to have little effect on the changes, he said. "When you look at all of these patterns and how they play out in time, none of them comes close to explaining the warming that's taken place in the last 30 or 40 years."
Mote laughed at the idea of a coming ice age. "That's just complete …" he said, pausing, "Well, let's see, I've got to be careful because you might print this."
Past ice ages have been triggered by changes in the earth's orbit, Mote said, after gathering his thoughts. These changes can be predicted, he added. The next one is expected in about 30,000 years. "They don't just jump on us the way they did in the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow,' " Mote said. "There's just no basis."
Even if all the research is wrong, Mote said an ice age begins only when snow stops melting in summer in Canada. This isn't happening, he said. In fact, more artic ice is melting away each summer.
Though the Inland Northwest faces massive changes from a warming climate, such as intensified wildfires and more snow-free winters, Mote insists he welcomes differing views. "There's a much needed place for skepticism within the scientific community."
Harris, who began studying the weather when he was 9, said he bases his predictions on a wide array of scientific sources and historical records. He's also a devout Christian and believes the Bible is loaded with clues on predicting the weather.
"I do believe in a period of extreme global warming. That will be in the tribulation period. That's when the real global warming will come in," he said. "Those of us who are believers, we're looking forward to it."
Harris acknowledges that people are playing a role in polluting the atmosphere, but he thinks society would be better off devoting its limited resources on ending poverty, curing diseases or providing universal health care, rather than investing in costly forms of clean energy or curtailing business to reduce carbon dioxide.
"I believe this planet is a breathing entity, made by God, to clean itself, adjust itself," Harris said.
Harris admits he could be wrong, though not likely. "We have a limited knowledge," he said. "The most brilliant climatologist has a gnat's eye view. I admit that. It's just that I have both gnat's eyes open."
Mote, who holds a doctoral degree in atmospheric sciences from the University of Washington, said his views on global warming also are shaped by his Christianity. According to his reading of the Bible, humans ought to err on the side of caution to be doing everything possible to slow the changes.
"It is incumbent on us not to despoil the earth for profit," he said.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=176325
In the 60's the big panic was the impending "ICE AGE" that was coming upon us, had we had Internet to spread the panic, it would have been the same that the "Sheeple" are screaming about now as Global Warming, although that is starting to fade and now is "Climate Change" (word swap) due to the fact that the Earth's trend is starting to cool down now.... But most "Sheeple" will go with the tide and claim that man is causing things to go back to "Normal" because of all the great things that we are doing... Which is of course a load of crap....
But the new term "Climate Change" makes it seem like they are still in the driver's seat, reality is that it is a peddle car they are in and don't qualify for a license....
You yell "FIRE" in a crowded room and everyone panics... You don't need a degree.
You yell "Global Warming" to a bunch of "Sheeple" and they all panic too...
When you have snow coming down earlier and lasts longer than last year, that is closer to fact than fiction.... No degree needed... Tad bit of common sense is pretty handy...
Last fall we had to quit running boats almost a month earlier in the Bering Sea because it froze over sooner than the year before... Not to mention dodging the "Endangered" Polar bears that were everywhere... They didn't seem to have gotton Gore's memo...
If Gore really believed what he preached, he would have the most "Green" house of anyone, but he doesn't...
You yell "Global Warming" to a bunch of "Sheeple" and they all panic too...
When you have snow coming down earlier and lasts longer than last year, that is closer to fact than fiction.... No degree needed... Tad bit of common sense is pretty handy...
Last fall we had to quit running boats almost a month earlier in the Bering Sea because it froze over sooner than the year before... Not to mention dodging the "Endangered" Polar bears that were everywhere... They didn't seem to have gotton Gore's memo...
If Gore really believed what he preached, he would have the most "Green" house of anyone, but he doesn't...
daedong
New member
This statement highlights the fact that you do not understand climate change. Its a global change not just your isolated part of the earth. your argument is nonsense. Its like me saying we have the worst drought in history and the hottest summer on record so we must have global warming, Its not as simple as that. Its about the earths overall temperature.
Um, did you see the graph above?
He most likely didn't see this as well 
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.co...-to-its-previous-level-bears-safe-film-at-11/
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.co...-to-its-previous-level-bears-safe-film-at-11/
daedong
New member
Perhaps this http://nsidc.org/sotc/sea_ice.html is a little more credible than this http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...fe-film-at-11/
Well I am in the middle of what much of the debate is about...
1. Polar Bears are endangered (they are not, we had them daily swim out to the ice pack and back, almost one a day where we operated our boats)
2. The seals are endangered, they don't have a place to live (if the ice melts, they do what they normally do, move onto the beach like the rest of the stupid seals do, we had a lot hauling out of the water to take a break...)
3. The ice pack is melting (it does it every spring and then refreezes in winter)
Since the Polar caps is what is suppose to be the measure of our extinction for Global Warming, it might be a good thing to stop by one and see how cold it gets during the winters... They made a big deal about the ice sheet breaking off in Antarctica a month or two ago, but what, it is late fall there... It will refreeze fast again to the shore in a few weeks if it hasn't started already... Maybe that is why the story got dropped like a hot potato.
The earth is going to do what it is going to do before man got here and long after. It is pretty arrogant of "some" people to think that we are that powerful to change the planets weather and such.
A volcano will put more crap into the air in ten minutes than we would in fifty years, maybe even a hundred.
The 1964 Alaskan earthquake at 9.2 on the Richter scale moved more earth in five minutes than man has in his entire existence or even a thousand nukes could have done.
Natural Forest fires in the U.S. consume and expel more toxins into the air each year than what man puts out world wide and that doesn't count the fires in the rest of the world.
What it does come down to is that we need to be a good steward of the planet as a whole, but this crap about everything is "Our" fault is just that, crap...
Oh, and as for "Experts"... They designed the Titanic to be totally unsinkable, it was brand new and sunk on it's first trip... Oh, and it hit melting ice almost one hundred years ago....where did that come from???
daedong
New member
One of measures
Perhaps this http://nsidc.org/sotc/sea_ice.html is a little more credible than this http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...fe-film-at-11/
You claimed that I have such a little snapshot of the world here and you may be right... So I watched the animation of the Sept. sea ice and that is a very Bogus job and a flat out lie.
The sea Ice was only about sixty miles offshore of Northern Alaska, in Sept. of 2007, not the "hundreds" that it claimed to show. I had a tug working the area doing exploration work for an Oil company looking for oil as well as our crew boats running out to the islands, both the man made ones and the natural barrier ones. When the wind shifted to the south from the Pole, the whole icepack would shift to Northern Alaska's coast and caused problems for our boats. The Arctic Ocean Ice is not land bound in the summer, it floats and moves to where every it wants...all three months or so of summer...
It appears that your "Experts" are pretty much what I though of them in the past... "Ex" is a has been, and "Perts" are little drips under pressure, or the other version where an "Expert" is someone more than fifty miles from home with a briefcase.
Well where else is the ice melting that is going to flood the world as according to the word of the Rev. Gore???
If it is still freezing, then something has to be working right...
This video is worth a watch as well .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgaeyMa3jyU&eurl=http://newsbusters.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgaeyMa3jyU&eurl=http://newsbusters.org/
Another view from a person down under.
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh
Phil Chapman | April 23, 2008
THE scariest photo I have seen on the internet is www.spaceweather.com, where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.
What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.
Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming, the average temperature on Earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.
All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.
There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence that 2007 was exceptionally cold. It snowed in Baghdad for the first time in centuries, the winter in China was simply terrible and the extent of Antarctic sea ice in the austral winter was the greatest on record since James Cook discovered the place in 1770.
It is generally not possible to draw conclusions about climatic trends from events in a single year, so I would normally dismiss this cold snap as transient, pending what happens in the next few years.
This is where SOHO comes in. The sunspot number follows a cycle of somewhat variable length, averaging 11 years. The most recent minimum was in March last year. The new cycle, No.24, was supposed to start soon after that, with a gradual build-up in sunspot numbers.
It didn't happen. The first sunspot appeared in January this year and lasted only two days. A tiny spot appeared last Monday but vanished within 24 hours. Another little spot appeared this Monday. Pray that there will be many more, and soon.
The reason this matters is that there is a close correlation between variations in the sunspot cycle and Earth's climate. The previous time a cycle was delayed like this was in the Dalton Minimum, an especially cold period that lasted several decades from 1790.
Northern winters became ferocious: in particular, the rout of Napoleon's Grand Army during the retreat from Moscow in 1812 was at least partly due to the lack of sunspots.
That the rapid temperature decline in 2007 coincided with the failure of cycle No.24 to begin on schedule is not proof of a causal connection but it is cause for concern.
It is time to put aside the global warming dogma, at least to begin contingency planning about what to do if we are moving into another little ice age, similar to the one that lasted from 1100 to 1850.
There is no doubt that the next little ice age would be much worse than the previous one and much more harmful than anything warming may do. There are many more people now and we have become dependent on a few temperate agricultural areas, especially in the US and Canada. Global warming would increase agricultural output, but global cooling will decrease it.
Millions will starve if we do nothing to prepare for it (such as planning changes in agriculture to compensate), and millions more will die from cold-related diseases.
There is also another possibility, remote but much more serious. The Greenland and Antarctic ice cores and other evidence show that for the past several million years, severe glaciation has almost always afflicted our planet.
The bleak truth is that, under normal conditions, most of North America and Europe are buried under about 1.5km of ice. This bitterly frigid climate is interrupted occasionally by brief warm interglacials, typically lasting less than 10,000 years.
The interglacial we have enjoyed throughout recorded human history, called the Holocene, began 11,000 years ago, so the ice is overdue. We also know that glaciation can occur quickly: the required decline in global temperature is about 12C and it can happen in 20 years.
The next descent into an ice age is inevitable but may not happen for another 1000 years. On the other hand, it must be noted that the cooling in 2007 was even faster than in typical glacial transitions. If it continued for 20 years, the temperature would be 14C cooler in 2027.
By then, most of the advanced nations would have ceased to exist, vanishing under the ice, and the rest of the world would be faced with a catastrophe beyond imagining.
Australia may escape total annihilation but would surely be overrun by millions of refugees. Once the glaciation starts, it will last 1000 centuries, an incomprehensible stretch of time.
If the ice age is coming, there is a small chance that we could prevent or at least delay the transition, if we are prepared to take action soon enough and on a large enough scale.
For example: We could gather all the bulldozers in the world and use them to dirty the snow in Canada and Siberia in the hope of reducing the reflectance so as to absorb more warmth from the sun.
We also may be able to release enormous floods of methane (a potent greenhouse gas) from the hydrates under the Arctic permafrost and on the continental shelves, perhaps using nuclear weapons to destabilize the deposits.
We cannot really know, but my guess is that the odds are at least 50-50 that we will see significant cooling rather than warming in coming decades.
The probability that we are witnessing the onset of a real ice age is much less, perhaps one in 500, but not totally negligible.
All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.
It will be difficult for people to face the truth when their reputations, careers, government grants or hopes for social change depend on global warming, but the fate of civilization may be at stake.
In the famous words of Oliver Cromwell, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."
Phil Chapman is a geophysicist and astronautical engineer who lives in San Francisco. He was the first Australian to become a NASA astronaut.
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh
Phil Chapman | April 23, 2008 THE scariest photo I have seen on the internet is www.spaceweather.com, where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.
What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.
Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming, the average temperature on Earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.
All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.
There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence that 2007 was exceptionally cold. It snowed in Baghdad for the first time in centuries, the winter in China was simply terrible and the extent of Antarctic sea ice in the austral winter was the greatest on record since James Cook discovered the place in 1770.
It is generally not possible to draw conclusions about climatic trends from events in a single year, so I would normally dismiss this cold snap as transient, pending what happens in the next few years.
This is where SOHO comes in. The sunspot number follows a cycle of somewhat variable length, averaging 11 years. The most recent minimum was in March last year. The new cycle, No.24, was supposed to start soon after that, with a gradual build-up in sunspot numbers.
It didn't happen. The first sunspot appeared in January this year and lasted only two days. A tiny spot appeared last Monday but vanished within 24 hours. Another little spot appeared this Monday. Pray that there will be many more, and soon.
The reason this matters is that there is a close correlation between variations in the sunspot cycle and Earth's climate. The previous time a cycle was delayed like this was in the Dalton Minimum, an especially cold period that lasted several decades from 1790.
Northern winters became ferocious: in particular, the rout of Napoleon's Grand Army during the retreat from Moscow in 1812 was at least partly due to the lack of sunspots.
That the rapid temperature decline in 2007 coincided with the failure of cycle No.24 to begin on schedule is not proof of a causal connection but it is cause for concern.
It is time to put aside the global warming dogma, at least to begin contingency planning about what to do if we are moving into another little ice age, similar to the one that lasted from 1100 to 1850.
There is no doubt that the next little ice age would be much worse than the previous one and much more harmful than anything warming may do. There are many more people now and we have become dependent on a few temperate agricultural areas, especially in the US and Canada. Global warming would increase agricultural output, but global cooling will decrease it.
Millions will starve if we do nothing to prepare for it (such as planning changes in agriculture to compensate), and millions more will die from cold-related diseases.
There is also another possibility, remote but much more serious. The Greenland and Antarctic ice cores and other evidence show that for the past several million years, severe glaciation has almost always afflicted our planet.
The bleak truth is that, under normal conditions, most of North America and Europe are buried under about 1.5km of ice. This bitterly frigid climate is interrupted occasionally by brief warm interglacials, typically lasting less than 10,000 years.
The interglacial we have enjoyed throughout recorded human history, called the Holocene, began 11,000 years ago, so the ice is overdue. We also know that glaciation can occur quickly: the required decline in global temperature is about 12C and it can happen in 20 years.
The next descent into an ice age is inevitable but may not happen for another 1000 years. On the other hand, it must be noted that the cooling in 2007 was even faster than in typical glacial transitions. If it continued for 20 years, the temperature would be 14C cooler in 2027.
By then, most of the advanced nations would have ceased to exist, vanishing under the ice, and the rest of the world would be faced with a catastrophe beyond imagining.
Australia may escape total annihilation but would surely be overrun by millions of refugees. Once the glaciation starts, it will last 1000 centuries, an incomprehensible stretch of time.
If the ice age is coming, there is a small chance that we could prevent or at least delay the transition, if we are prepared to take action soon enough and on a large enough scale.
For example: We could gather all the bulldozers in the world and use them to dirty the snow in Canada and Siberia in the hope of reducing the reflectance so as to absorb more warmth from the sun.
We also may be able to release enormous floods of methane (a potent greenhouse gas) from the hydrates under the Arctic permafrost and on the continental shelves, perhaps using nuclear weapons to destabilize the deposits.
We cannot really know, but my guess is that the odds are at least 50-50 that we will see significant cooling rather than warming in coming decades.
The probability that we are witnessing the onset of a real ice age is much less, perhaps one in 500, but not totally negligible.
All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.
It will be difficult for people to face the truth when their reputations, careers, government grants or hopes for social change depend on global warming, but the fate of civilization may be at stake.
In the famous words of Oliver Cromwell, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."
Phil Chapman is a geophysicist and astronautical engineer who lives in San Francisco. He was the first Australian to become a NASA astronaut.
