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Old 02-22-2006, 11:23 AM
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Default The Truth About Trucks

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/truth/index.asp?bannerid='R_F150VHPTTAT_FV.com_20060127'

I don't know if any of you have seen that, but Ford has updated their "Truth About Trucks" video selection for 2006. I like Ford trucks, but I'm not brand loyal, either. For me, watching those left quite a few questions. I wasn't impressed with the tests they decided to do or how they leave some details out. I know they want to make their product look good, but I just wasn't impressed with the videos. What do you guys think?
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

A fine little story but it's obviously biased. The guy is really good at twisting things...

Here's what I saw. I only looked at the "Road Test" section.

In the slolem course, the Ford did look a little better but that test appeared biased. If you listen to the wording carefully, there were other drivers in the non-Ford vehicles. The host drove the Ford. If you notice the approach and exit on the other vehicles (even at the very first cone), you could see the drivers were erratic and had an exagerated approach at the cones.

There was no real supporting evidence in the "Payload Performance" section.
It talked about bolt size and the guy went on to say "I want to make sure it stays in the truck". Ahhh, I've never seen a box fall of a truck.

The "towing performance" section was very misguided. Hmmm, I wonder if they had to take this approach since the Ford (if I recall correctly) has less towing capabilities than the Dodge or Chevy.

In the "Silver Creek shootout" section they put so much emphasis on how the other trucks did at the end (the roughest section) of the course. Too bad they DIDN'T EVEN SHOW THE FORD HERE.
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

The thing that bugged me was how they didn't specify the conditions. Does the Ford have a 4.6 or 5.4? Did the Chevy have the 5.3 or 6.1 (I think those are right, I'm not familiar with Chevys)? It sounds like the Ram had the 5.7. No wonder they didn't test it further than the bumpy Silver Creek Shootout. The 3v 5.4l Ford V8 makes 300HP, but the truck weighs 500 pounds more. The slight increase in power is voided. The Ram Quad Cab really isn't a good comparison. It isn't a true crew cab. They should have used the Mega Cab. Those issues and others were bugging me the entire time I was watching those videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bczoom
In the slolem course, the Ford did look a little better but that test appeared biased. If you listen to the wording carefully, there were other drivers in the non-Ford vehicles. The host drove the Ford. If you notice the approach and exit on the other vehicles (even at the very first cone), you could see the drivers were erratic and had an exagerated approach at the cones.
I didn't notice that. They had the windows tinted to dark for me to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bczoom
There was no real supporting evidence in the "Payload Performance" section. It talked about bolt size and the guy went on to say "I want to make sure it stays in the truck". Ahhh, I've never seen a box fall of a truck.
I thought the same thing. I never heard of a box falling off a truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bczoom
In the "Silver Creek shootout" section they put so much emphasis on how the other trucks did at the end (the roughest section) of the course. Too bad they DIDN'T EVEN SHOW THE FORD HERE.
This was my biggest WTF moment when watching the videos. I was eager to see the F-150 handle the rough part, but then they cut out!

I watched the driveline portion of the series. First they compared oil filters. They showed the Titan's, Tundra's, Silverado's, and of course the F-150's. The F-150 had the biggest one. The Ram was strangely not compared. At the ring & pinion section of the video they only compared the F-150 and Tundra. The other trucks weren't compared. When it came to the fan shrouds, the Tundra and Nissan were the only other trucks compared. The same goes for the radiators. Only the Nissan and Toyota were compared. If they wanted to show the "truth", I just wish they would have compared all the trucks in all the tests.
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayC
I didn't notice that. They had the windows tinted to dark for me to see.
It was in his wording. He said something like "the drivers were told to stay as close to the cones as possible". Then when it got to the Ford, the wording was switched to say he was driving.

The videos may work for some....
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

If you want to see something scary about Ford trucks that I'm only way too familiar with, just go to Google and type in "Ford spark plugs". If the feds step in on that issue, it will be bye bye Ford. Most class action attoneys feel that Ford's liability will be between 2.5 and 3.1 billion dollars. Ford claims that they will cease all North America operations if hit with a claim that large.
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargo
If you want to see something scary about Ford trucks that I'm only way too familiar with, just go to Google and type in "Ford spark plugs". If the feds step in on that issue, it will be bye bye Ford. Most class action attoneys feel that Ford's liability will be between 2.5 and 3.1 billion dollars. Ford claims that they will cease all North America operations if hit with a claim that large.
True, that could be a very bad thing... Too bad the true fault cannot be addressed.. If the people installing replacement plugs would (#1) use the correct plug and (#2) torque them to the correct tq, these issues would nearly dissapear..

So as you said, Ford may take a MAJOR hit because of the aftermarket...
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGM
Too bad the true fault cannot be addressed..
Ford's own techs admit that most 5.4 liter engines have only between 3 and 5 threads in the #3 plug hole from the factory. Their (Ford's) assertion is that 3 to 5 rounds of threads is adequate. I think they will lose that arguement in the long run. There are too many thousands of cases proving that 3 to 5 rounds of threads in the factory heads is severely insufficient.

I'll give you a hint on my "inside" thoughts; I sold all of my Ford stock.

Oh yeah, every single case I've read about that is on file concerns the original factory plugs, installed by Ford, blowing out. In the 4.6 and 5.4 engine, a spark plug change is not required until 100k miles. It appears that most are not making it that far.
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Old 02-22-2006, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

The sparkplug deal is a kick in the ass. We just bought a Mercury Grand Marquis a couple of weeks ago and it has the 4.6 V8. I saw references to 2004 models on the pages from the google search. Any idea if they've made any changes for the 2005/2006 models?
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

I had a 2002 F150 Crew Cab. When it was time to get rid of it I said I was not going to get another one like it. I was happy with the mechanics of it but the ride was ok but anytime you put a load in it I felt like it was ready to tip over. Was not really impressed with it overall. Real close to signing on the dotted line for a new Chevy until a friend said, Murph, you owe it to your self to try out the new Ford. Well I did and I came home with a 2004 F150 Crew Cab. There is a major difference in it. The suburban my wife had would walk over the 2002 while it will not come close to the 2004 as far as HP. The 2004 my wife always now wants to take it as it rides better than the suburban. The new F150 are nice and are a big improvement over the older style. Load the back end up and you don't even know anything is back there. I did not go through all of the videos but the first one the slalom I believe it was a true test based on my experience. The gas mileage I don't think is as good as they claim it will be but I guess that doesn't bother me much.

murph
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

I belong to one of the largest Ford truck forums on the Internet and I don't remember seeing many issues with the spark plugs. I had heard something about it a while back, and I do remember one of the members on the Ford truck forum having this issue. He has a 2000 or 2001 SVT Lightning (don't remember the year). I remember him saying a long time back that he was driving along the freeway and a spark plug shot through the hood or something like that. That was the only time I ever heard it happen. If anyone's interested in the site here it is:

http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com

They also have sister sites for a whole hosts of other interests. The Sites menu under the banner lists them all.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Unfortunately since I'm in the business, I hear about the Ford spark plug spitting on about a weekly basis. There are literally thousands of well documented cases. As the '97 to '04 (problem years) age, there are actually several each day blowing spark plugs out. I've always been a Ford kind of guy, but this is a huge problem. It's big enough that it really could take Ford down. What I don't understand is why they continued to use the faulty heads for so many years when it is extremely well documented that they knew they had a major problem.

I bought my wife a '99 Expedition with the 5.4 in it. Other than it being a real dog on power, we were pretty pleased with the vehicle. After realizing that it is a very real possibility that it may leave her stranded at any given time, it had to go. I just couldn't stand the thought of my wife and kids being stranded on the side of the road because of a ticking time bomb of an engine. And, yes, about a year after I sold it, it blew the #2 plug out while sitting at a stop light.

I still have 1 Ford vehicle, but it doesn't have the spark plug spitting engine in it. I do still like the ride and drive of the Ford truck better than any other. Even so, I found Ford's advertising videos a bit offensive and condescending. I felt that those ads were specifically designed to target the lesser educated person.

I'm not a 1/2 ton pickup buyer. I need a 3/4 ton minimum and find a 1 ton dually fitting my needs the best. Besides the fact that the V10 Ford engines have also been spitting out spark plugs, they don't have near the pulling power I need. Toyota is testing their 1 ton diesel version pickup now. I just wonder if it will be as strong as the Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. The concept sounds good, but I'll more likely either go with Dodge for their Cummins engine or maybe a Ford diesel when I'm ready. My choice may be made for me if Ford doesn't come up with some way out of fixing over 17 million effected engines they put out that are spitting out spark plugs.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Not that it matters,or is a trend in the 5.4 Ford . But, I had a spark plug Blow out at40k miles . I was going about 35 mph when it let go . Scared the heck out of me . While my truck wasn't covered by any warranty , the dealership covered it . I got rid of that truck shortly there after. ( bought a 6.0 PSD :) ) Is that a case for going from the fying pan to the fire ,or what ? :)
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nixon
Not that it matters,or is a trend in the 5.4 Ford . But, I had a spark plug Blow out at40k miles . I was going about 35 mph when it let go . Scared the heck out of me . While my truck wasn't covered by any warranty , the dealership covered it . I got rid of that truck shortly there after. ( bought a 6.0 PSD :) ) Is that a case for going from the fying pan to the fire ,or what ? :)
Nah, the 6.0 is fine. You are exactly right about not being covered by the warranty. It's not covered by the factory Ford warranty or any extended warranty. All roads lead back to Ford for the problem. You had a good honest dealer who does the right thing; even when it costs him money. Many try to do that unless they sold a lot of trucks and just cannot afford to shell out the $3000 or so for the fix.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

I own 4 ford trucks. They are all deisel except the Ranger which is exempt. I have always been a ford guy. A few guys around town here that used to be die hard Chevy guys now drive fords because they got tired of replacing expensive front ends in the chevy one ton's. A strong truck cant have an independent front suspension in my humbled opinion,
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Dargo,
Theres no doubt an issue... However, the large majority of plug problems I'm aware of are after the first tune up, rarely done at the dealer... Tq is a major issue, allot of guys have hard time applying the proper tq to an alluminum head..
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

The spark plug issue is something totally new to me. I have never heard of it until reading it here. As many vehicles as I have I would think I would have ran into it. Maybe their coming yet.


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Old 02-23-2006, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thcri
The spark plug issue is something totally new to me. I have never heard of it until reading it here. As many vehicles as I have I would think I would have ran into it. Maybe their coming yet.


murph

Murph,
My recomendation would be to use Motorcraft plugs and make sure their tight.. Doubt you'll have any trouble.. If you dont do that stuff yourself, go to the dealer..
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGM
Dargo,
Theres no doubt an issue... However, the large majority of plug problems I'm aware of are after the first tune up, rarely done at the dealer... Tq is a major issue, allot of guys have hard time applying the proper tq to an alluminum head..
I, too, was hesitant to believe that it is totally the fault of Ford's crappy head design, but the facts are clear. I am yet to see a court case against Ford, nor anyone in the class action suit, that has had anything other than factory installed plugs blow out. Perhaps that is because Ford would undoubtedly blame the consumer for improper installation. I've been involved in dozens and dozens of these cases personally, and I've yet to see a single case where it has involved anything but Ford factory plugs. Plain and simple, it is not the consumer causing this problem. Period. It is Ford using heads that they got produced on the cheap failing because 3 to 5 threads are not enough to hold spark plugs in securely.

I owned 5 Ford products when this issue came to light. There is no way to say that I have not been a big Ford fan. I didn't want to believe that my favorite vehicle manufacturer could be so stupid as to continue to produce something that they are only too aware of that could leave their customers stranded on the side of the road. The class action lawyers figure that there is about 1000 people who have not posted complaints on the web to each person who has complained on the web. Ford says that only about 5% seem to be effected. Uh, that's 850,000 vehicles even if their estimate is correct.
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: The Truth About Trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargo
I, too, was hesitant to believe that it is totally the fault of Ford's crappy head design, but the facts are clear. I am yet to see a court case against Ford, nor anyone in the class action suit, that has had anything other than factory installed plugs blow out. Perhaps that is because Ford would undoubtedly blame the consumer for improper installation. I've been involved in dozens and dozens of these cases personally, and I've yet to see a single case where it has involved anything but Ford factory plugs. Plain and simple, it is not the consumer causing this problem. Period. It is Ford using heads that they got produced on the cheap failing because 3 to 5 threads are not enough to hold spark plugs in securely.
Thats ironic... I have contact with a LARGE number of dealer techs and the vast majority of issues they have are aftermarket plugs or installation.. BTW, against factory recomendations, a very close personal friend of mine has had very good luck with heli coil repairs on the heads saving the customer quite a bit of money.. He has built a name in the area and even other dealers send him customers that are out of waranty and cannot afford to replace the head..

I dont think I'd sell my Modular engine(Ford) because of it, but I'm interested to see what happens though...
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Old 02-23-2006, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HGM
BTW, against factory recomendations, a very close personal friend of mine has had very good luck with heli coil repairs on the heads saving the customer quite a bit of money.. He has built a name in the area and even other dealers send him customers that are out of waranty and cannot afford to replace the head..
I certainly wish I could convince people I'm trying to help of that fact. I have no idea why some people say that they cannot afford new heads, and will walk, but can afford to hire an attorney. The attorneys claim that if the repair is done with a heli coil that it could possible blow out and leave the customers stranded. Duh! Isn't that what the new heads do?!
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