How Good is Your Word -or- Would you sell Rico304 a tractor?

OK guys, my friend Rico304, who gets grief from me on a regular basis, just got the short end of the stick.

He struck a deal to buy a Kubota B7610 with FEL & BH from a guy. The guy says he will hold the tractor until Rico304 can come down to get it. Rico says it will be later in the same week. Rico will bring the money. All is good.

2 days later Rico calls back, the tractor was sold to someone else. Rico has now spent money to apply for financing for a tractor he can't get. The guy 'feels bad.'

So how good is your word to a stranger?
Or in any dealings at all?
At what point is it OK to screw over someone you gave your word to just to get some money 3 days sooner?

Gees, what a rip! My first reply was going to be that I'd never go back on my word. However, if the buyer failed to show up when agreed and never called, I would at least attempt to contact them. Then, after a couple of days of trying that, I would have to say that I'd sell to another person. What you described is a lame seller who is certainly not a man of his word.

If someone gives me a definitive "I'll take it", that's it. They get it.
If they say "I think" or "I'm interested", money talks, BS walks. First person to give me a down payment or definitive answer locks them in.
I sold a guy a $7000 ATV on verbal agreement. But, he lives in SC (and I'm in PA) and it was going to be a month before he could come get it. I held it for him and took it off the market.

bczoom said:

If someone gives me a definitive "I'll take it", that's it. They get it.
If they say "I think" or "I'm interested", money talks, BS walks. First person to give me a down payment or definitive answer locks them in.
I sold a guy a $7000 ATV on verbal agreement. But, he lives in SC (and I'm in PA) and it was going to be a month before he could come get it. I held it for him and took it off the market.

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I got a fuel tank from a guy just like you.

I do what I say, when the other party breaks the chain, I break the tie!

Big Dog said:

I got a fuel tank from a guy just like you.

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Hey, confirmation that my word is good and if I recall correctly, we agreed but due to scheduling (and neither of us were in a hurry), it took us about a month to close the deal.

bczoom said:

Hey, confirmation that my word is good and if I recall correctly, we agreed but due to scheduling (and neither of us were in a hurry), it took us about a month to close the deal.

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Hey Brain, that's called communication!

Thanks again, now about that firewood...........

I find I am constantly disappointed in people who's word is not a bond of trust. I have a friend/neighbor that I trust completely. His word is good enough for me. He and I share implements, tractors, etc. If something breaks, it's fixed. If something is said, it's done. If something is promised, it's gospel. I conduct my business the same way, and can't seem to get over the number of people who are liars. There is no other real way to say it. But break your word and you are a liar. Can't get much lower than that in my book.

I ran into something interesting the other day along these lines. I found an add for a used PowerMac G4 Tower computer on craigslist last week. It seems like a really good price and it was not exactly lists properly. Advertised as "Apple Macintosh" instead of "PowerMac" which is what people would normally type in the search field. Anyhow, So I sent the person an email, asking them if it is still for sale and leaving my phone number. The next day I get a call. He says, "Yes, it is available. I have gotten several emails and there is someone coming by here in 2 hours to take a look at it". I say, "oh, ok.. well it sounds like you already have someone coming out to look at it". "Call me or send me an email if it does not sell for some reason". 2 minutes later, he calls back and says "ah.. guess what, I just checked my email and the person who was going to come by and look at it found another computer and wont be coming out after all".

ok... so was he expecting me to race out there to go beat someone out of a sale or offer money beyond the asking price?? wtf?? obviously the whole story about they person coming out in 2 hours was a flat out lie which backfired on him.

Anyhow, the story gets more interesting. The computer was a PowerMac G4 Tower it has 512MB RAM and 180GB HDD. It also had an external DVD burner attached via Firewire enclosrure. I asked him how he managed to get a 180GB drive into the machine and how the RAM was composed in the machine.. How many sticks of memory, how many slots open, etc? He did not seem to know much about the computer and said that he had bought it off of a friend and only had it for about a year.The odd thing about the machine was that it had an EXTERNAL DVD burner via the Firewire connection and he said the computer had a 180GB HDD. I thought to myself, how odd. Why would he put an external DVD burner on it when he could easily install it inside the case which would be much cheaper and faster. What else is odd is that I knew that this model only allowed you to recognize up to 120GB HDDs. How did he get a 180 GB drive in there?

Well I show up to this guys house and I see lots of names list underneath the door bell. I think to myself.. hmmm "must be a rental house with lots of room mates". He opens up the door and says Hi... "I'm _____, and this is my wife". I say "nice to meet ya". I guess I was surprised that a married couple is in the house after seeing the list of names/tenants. So, I casually look over at the fellows ring finger, and see no wedding ring. I smirk to myself. Ok, whats this guy doing? Lie #2?

He takes me over to see the computer. Everything looks ok at first. I do some poking around and see that the 170GB HDD is actually three small drives inside the computer. Then, I ask to see inside the case to see how the RAM is composed via Sticks of SDRAM. That is when he shows me this Master-Lock attached to the back of the computer like you see in Labs to prevent people from walking away with computers from the school lab or openning up the case on a PowerMac (for those who understand how easy it is to open up the case on a PowerMac). He says.. "hmm.. let me see I know I had a key taped onto the back of this lock someplace.. ". "gee, where did it go??.. it was right here.. hmmm..". Then he proceeds to pretend to start looking for the key, looking in drawers and boxes. It was a good performance, very entertaining. I was impressed by the whole show. ;-) Then everything fell into place and made sense. External DVD burner, the odd HDD size, his lack of knowledge of the inside of the computer, etc.

Anyhow.. I said.. "well, I really don't want to deal with the whole lock thing. give me a call when you find the key and get the lock off." I left, with no intention to ever buy this computer if he were to ever call back. Which I doubt he has the nuts to do at this point. How's that for an entertaining story?

B_Skurka said:

There is no other real way to say it. But break your word and you are a liar. Can't get much lower than that in my book.

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Okay, I gotta ask; you aren't putting me into the "liar" category because I said that I'd put an item back up for sale if the person never showed up, called, or I couldn't contact him, are you?

Dargo: Nope. I think it is safe to say that under your proposed circumstances, you did what you could do. What I am referring to are the folks who say "I will hold the tractor for you, we have a deal" and then they sell it the next day. Or the people who shake your hand and agree to something, only to have them come back to renegotiate.


OregonAlex: Good story, that guy is a knucklehead too!

alongs these lines.. I had a deal go bad on some land. I was had entered into a agreement to buy 10 acres of land from a seller. We were going to the traditional realtor route. Everything was agreed to and signed. The seller was a logger and had recently logged the property and in doing so opened up a view of the cacade range of mountains. Very nice, you had good view of Mt. Hood, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Rainier, and Mt. Adams. The seller's ex-wife owned the adjacent property. Everything was signed and as part of agreement the seller has to drill a well at the location of my choosing and pave the driveway up to the home site. So I go up there to put some flags to determine where to put the well. In order to do this I had to determine where to put the homesite, the septic drainfield, etc. So I just stake out the whole thing to give myself a good idea. A few days later, I get a call from the realtor telling me that the seller wants to change the contract. He wants to add a view easement in so that I don't build anything in the way of his ex-wife "new" view of the mountains. Which she did not have up till a few days prior. In addition, he fesses up that there is an illegal water line running through the middle of the property going from ex-wife property to another property downhill that she is renting (which has a drainfield/septic system but not enough setback space to also put in a well of its own). So he wants another easement right through to center of the property in case of cut through the water line while excavating. I told him.. look... we already have a sign contract and everything has been agreed upon. It is a little late to be adding in easements which I have no interest in and which limit what I can do with the property. Besides, you can't have a view easement because the property is zoned forrest. What am I gonna do, cut down the trees and not let them grow because your ex-wife wants to maintain a view from her place?
Anyhow, I leave it at that. As we near closer to closing, I notice that he still has not performed on his todo list (drilling a well at my specified location and pavement). So I send I message over to him.. "Hey.. whats going on? we need to close on this". Nothing. He send me back a message saying.. I ain't gonna sell to you unless you agree to the new easements.
Well, after going through the hassle of securing a loan for the property, paying appraisal fees, etc. and spending money to talking it over with a real estate contract lawyer, my wife and I come to the conclusion that.... it will be very expensive for us to legally force him to sell the property per the signed agreement and if and when we do get him to do it we will be stuck with his ex-wife next door. What did I learn from this whole experience?? As a buyer, you really don't have much power to get someone to go through with thier offer to sell. We lost time and money getting ready to close on this property and we have nothing to show for it except a memorable experiece about how people's word, even a written contract to sell, means nothing from a practicality point of view. Too bad we can't make the seller put up ernest money too!! Needless to say I was a bit pissed off about the whole experience. If I back out of a deal like that as a buyer, I lose my ernest money.. but if a seller backs out they lose nothing?? just not right I tell ya.

B_Skurka said:

OregonAlex: Good story, that guy is a knucklehead too!

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Hey Bob.. you will appreciate this. That PowerMac had 3 hard drives.
The first drive was labeled as "Macintosh HD". No surprise there.
The other two drives, the guy named them "C:" and "D:". Tells you alot about the seller.

you know it seems to me that it is these people that lie, cheat and steal that seeem to NEVER get ahead. No matter how much they lie, cheat and steal they always do not seem to be doing too well financially. The exception being politicians and other white collar criminals.

I have had my share or lying, scheming, and cheating contractors over the years and it seems that they are always behind the eight ball financial and personally. No matter how much they lie and cheat money out of their clients, life is not very good for very long.

Alex, most of the folks I rate as dishonest get ahead and then fall off cliffs, seems like they build a house of cards and all is good until the wind blows. I really do agree that the best course for business is win-win. It just makes sense.

As for the Mac guy with hard drives C & D, something tells me he isn't going to make it big time in any computer field!!!! As Bugs Bunny would say: What a Maroon!