US Patriot Act – Keep It Or Dump It

The US Patriot Act - Good Or Bad??????

Is it time to repeal and get rid of the Patriot Act? Has it outlived its useful life? If it continues do you believe it will threaten or infringe on your personal rights that it should not such as your right to own weapons, guns, secret wire tapping and invasion of your personal records such as bank account info? Can you think of any reason for the Patriot Act to be changed for the current times? What are the changes you think would make it a better tool to fight terrorism or so it does not infringe on rights of the individual US citizen?

Have your concerns about the Patriot Act changed with the new liberal Democrat administration? In basic easy to understand terms, was it good when we had Bush but it is bad for the country with Obama? I believe we have members who think it was fine with Bush in charge but are now concerned as to what may take place under the guise of the Patriot Act with the liberal democrats now in control?

I had trouble with parts of it when it was proposed, I have problems with those same parts today. A bad law is a bad law.

B_Skurka said:

I had trouble with parts of it when it was proposed, I have problems with those same parts today. A bad law is a bad law.

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Bob, do you agree with some parts and disagree with other parts? Are you more concerned now that we have the dems in power and the repubs are walking the street trying to find their way? How in any way should it be changed or just sent to the scrap heap.

My opinion is that at the time it was enacted we did not know much about our enemy and it was done in haste as a stopgap measure to appease some people. Very little thought was put into the long term effects. It should also have a real sunset rule/law attached. It can always be reenacted if needed but its time has come and gone as we now know much more about who and what the dangers are with terrorism. I can not see how the liberal dems in power can really use it to further any current agenda or in reality to hurt the average citizens. I would believe there would be a major backlash if they push hard any specific agenda using the Patriot Act as a guise especially after the Git-Mo decision by Obama. It is almost un-constitutional as it now stands.

DUMP IT and the sooner the better as it has no useful purpose today.

I'm for dumping it . I got asked yesterday if my phone is tapped . Thats twice in two weeks . Tapped it I don't give a shit !

You see I wrote some "not so nice Emails to GWB" calling him the biggest stupid dumb ass and a embarrassment to Texas that I ever saw . A man afraid of his own shadow . I think Bushy boy is a scared little man just like the small man at the bar that always wants to start a fight . It was his way of being able to wear "Big Boy Pants " and prove his power . Thank God hes gone !

BigAl said:

I'm for dumping it . I got asked yesterday if my phone is tapped . Thats twice in two weeks . Tapped it I don't give a shit !

You see I wrote some "not so nice Emails to GWB" calling him the biggest stupid dumb ass and a embarrassment to Texas that I ever saw . A man afraid of his own shadow . I think Bushy boy is a scared little man just like the small man at the bar that always wants to start a fight . It was his way of being able to wear "Big Boy Pants " and prove his power . Thank God hes gone !

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You mean Bush and Skurka wear the same pants??

Damn Allen, I reckon you're on GW's shit list for sure. You been audited by the IRS lately?

Yup,
And some think foxes are dumb a@@es.

Cityboy said:

. You been audited by the IRS lately?

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Actually , yes I was ... I have a home in Panama and the dumb asses were sure they had themselves a big time money laundry scheme going on .
Now, I have always paid every damn dime of tax I ever owned this country and I keep a letter on file with AG Edwards explaining my money wire transfers just to back it up . The lawns, gardens , secretary and upkeep in Panama do not happen by me waving my magic wand from Idaho or California , but they were too dumb to figure it out . They looked like real dumb asses by the time I got done explaining it in simple sentences even they could understand .

I like the Patriot Act.
They listen legally to foreign calls coming into this country.
I saw a time when I was assigned a wire tap project. I listened in on a couple that said nothing for hours.
I guess that they just wanted to be close. What a boring job.
They could care less about Joe Six pack.

BigAl said:

Actually , yes I was ... I have a home in Panama and the dumb asses were sure they had themselves a big time money laundry scheme going on .
Now, I have always paid every damn dime of tax I ever owned this country and I keep a letter on file with AG Edwards explaining my money wire transfers just to back it up . The lawns, gardens , secretary and upkeep in Panama do not happen by me waving my magic wand from Idaho or California , but they were too dumb to figure it out . They looked like real dumb asses by the time I got done explaining it in simple sentences even they could understand .

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See guys, here's the problem with legislation like the Patriot Act. Sure, it can help capture some bad guys, but this might have ended badly for Allen, all because he voiced his discontent with an American president. Hopefully, he's endured all he has to endure. Clinton did the same thing as GWB. People who shouted dissent at Clinton found themselves the subject of IRS audits even before the Patriot Act. But with the PA, it makes it easy for some political administration to teach some poor citizen a "lesson" just for voicing an opinion.

Just one more unintended consequence.

A bad idea for all of the right reasons.

Why should I have a tap on my phone without probable cause?

"Oh, we might catch a terrorist!"

Okay, I'm all for that, but without probable cause any evidence you might gather is simply "fruit of the poison tree."

Now granted, any foreign national doesn't get the same rights that I do. You can put a bullet behind his ear despite any Constitutional guaranties I might enjoy.

But you don't need The Patriot Act for that. Heck, you can shoot them now.

The Tourist said:

A bad idea for all of the right reasons.

Why should I have a tap on my phone without probable cause?

"Oh, we might catch a terrorist!" .

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Tourist,
Quote: Why should I have a tap on my phone without probable cause?

The government does not have time to tap your phone as they are looking for people that can wake up a sleeper cell.
If you want to tap someone’s phone (in the US), you have to get a judge to give a court order. This has to be hand delivered to a local agency. If the person doing the tapping is caught doing this without a court order he/she is terminated.
The people that work in communications are not allowed to repeat anything that they might hear. You have to agree to that and sign the secrecy paper work. A trip to Leavenworth is the consequence for repeating anything you have heard.
A question that was asked in our briefings. "What if you hear someone saying that they killed their wife and buried her in the back-yard". Keep your mouth shut as the people that pay for their phone services have a right to secrecy and privacy.

Your treatise is probably true 99% of the time.

But if some idiot in a lower level position of Homeland Security thought Bin Laden was one of my customers, they would bug my phone, my truck, my dog kennel, my pants...

Phone taps are obsolete now they just funnel everything thru something called a SUPER COMPUTER and record EVERYTHING. That way they can DATA MINE it at their convenience. GOOGLE EARTH can see you!

Only the technology is different.

In the 1950s they used what was known as a 'dragnet,' like the name of a popular TV show.

If a black man was suspected of a crime, they picked up every black in the area and kept sorting them out until they found the right guy.

In other words, "guilty until proven innocent."

This idea was struck down so many times in court it almost seems impossible that it happened in my lifetime.

We just use an electronic dragnet now. You're guilty until some computer says you're innocent.