Shop size?

Snowcat Operations · May 10, 2008

Hi all,
I am getting ready to begin the designing and building of my snowcat shop building. The circus tent is not a place to do a restore. I am wondering what you all have. Can you post pictures of what you have for a shop. Even if its a garage. Need some ideas. So far I am coming up with 28x40 but costs may be shrinking it down. Thanks for any ideas.

Bobcat · May 10, 2008

Snowcat Operations said:
Hi all,
I am getting ready to begin the designing and building of my snowcat shop building. The circus tent is not a place to do a restore. I am wondering what you all have. Can you post pictures of what you have for a shop. Even if its a garage. Need some ideas. So far I am coming up with 28x40 but costs may be shrinking it down. Thanks for any ideas.

I think once again you've overestimated your 'requirement'.

You should be able to get away with a 20x30, or a 3 car garage size. I say this with knowledge of your property layout.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · May 10, 2008

Make sure it's high enough that you can put a lift into it and you may want higher 10'-12' high doors if you want to back a loaded trailer into it or drive a big tractor into it.

Also, if you are planning for a lift you may need to do thicker concrete in that area.

mbsieg · May 10, 2008

As long as the square footage of the shop is twice that of the house you should be OK....

Dargo · May 10, 2008

PBinWA said:
Make sure it's high enough that you can put a lift into it and you may want higher 10'-12' high doors if you want to back a loaded trailer into it or drive a big tractor into it.

Also, if you are planning for a lift you may need to do thicker concrete in that area.

I found that my 60X60 barn with a 14' height was too small. I also found that the 10' tall main door in it was too short for some things. If you ever buy a nice motorhome you'll find that some of them are about 12'6" with an A/C unit on top. Also, I cannot back my trailer into a 10' door with my tractor on it. Sometimes it's nice to have the trailer loaded inside. My new barn/shop I'm building, behind my existing barn, is a 60X80 with 18' ceiling height. I was going to go with 16' doors but found that a 14' door works for most any application I will have.

Most 4 post lifts only require a 4" floor, but I wouldn't be too comfortable with that if I were to put anything substantial on the lift. My floor where my 2 post lift is about 10" thick. I think most 2 post lifts require a minimum of 6" but, there again, I'm not really comfortable with the 'minimum' if I'm under something.

Snowcat Operations · May 10, 2008

My floor thickness will be no less than 6". The area where my post for the lift will be 12" thick by 2'x2'. I may even run a separate footing connecting each post together. BobP increments should be dividable by 4 foot increments. 20x32 is ok but a standard 2 car garage is 24x24. Which is too small in my opinion for two cars. Maybe 28x32. I was planning on 12' tall walls but maybe I should 14'. I could get a 12' tall door then. Thanks for the info keep them coming. This is helping me.

cabinboy · May 10, 2008

I'am thinking if you build one like Dargo's you should be good. :smile:

Snowcat Operations · May 10, 2008

That place is MASSIVE!

cabinboy · May 10, 2008

PERFECT is the word you are looking for.

XeVfTEUtaAqJHTqq · May 10, 2008

I'm planning on building mine around 30x36 with a side shed for tractor and implement parking.

However, like most things. Build it as big as you can. You will find a way to use the space.

Mainer · May 10, 2008

My big problem is not figuring out what the heck I want but finding someone that has experience putting a metal building kit together that isn't a commercial sized unit... so 60'x60'x or something like that doesn't seem to interest many folks that assemble metal kits. Then there are stick-built contractors that say "Sure!" and you know it won't get done right....guinea pig attempt.

I'm going to invest in an outdoor wood furnace... so for me it's about timing of when and what I build now. I'm thinking of putting in all radiant heating for the possiblity of the furnace cuz there's obviously no going back!

I'm curious about what most people use to heat massive workshops...massive propane heater/blowers or what? For me, to be economical, the outdoor wood furnace is ideal given I have nearly infinite wood availability 'for free' off my land.

Snowcat Operations · May 10, 2008

I decided 28 feet wide since I can use prebuilt trusses with out and center columns

Snowcat Operations · May 10, 2008

Radiant heating is excellent and very efficient. There are several dos and allot of donts! I have my old commercial and residential book on radiant heating that will be a huge help. I will be buying a more modern book as well. I to want to use a wood fired furnace but not sure if they make one for radiant heating.

scooterd · May 10, 2008

We moved a 30 X 30 shop to the yard last fall. It's too small! By the time you get your tools, welders, air compressor, work bench, and the rest of the stuff a person tends to collect you've used up a third of your space. Build it as big as your wallet and wife will allow!

Mainer · May 10, 2008

I know people use them for radiant heating... but they're most often used to heat everything but you can just keep it to one purpose if you want. Here's a good list of manufacturers and an accurate comparison... I'm most likely buying a Greenwood. One of the most successful competitors is http://www.freeheatmachine.com/ but the efficiency and completeness of burn isn't that of the Greenwood.

http://www.greenwoodfurnace.com/Manufacturers.htm

Also, when installing the piping underground, best to absolutely over-do it with insulation... there's the amount they give and then there's adding more (but not adding A LOT more)... just adding 'some more' can lead to even more heat loss... but if you go to excess...then you're golden. Also, I know a guy that had one and put in extra flow pumps thinking it would help...bad idea...they suck alot of electricity.

Just have to make sure you use anti-freeze in the lines for times when you're not running the unit. Most people with these things keep them going constantly...etc... if you go on vaca then the suppliers encourage you to use the electric flow pumps to *heat* the water in the pipes/tank so that it doesn't freeze. So, the backup house heater warms the water to heat the furnace outside! That's bogus. So, I'm going with adding anti-freeze to the system.

Mainer · May 10, 2008

scooterd said:
We moved a 30 X 30 shop to the yard last fall. It's too small! By the time you get your tools, welders, air compressor, work bench, and the rest of the stuff a person tends to collect you've used up a third of your space. Build it as big as your wallet and wife will allow!

Agree... I think while you're at it may as well add some extra cash and go for it... taking a 30x30 and making it a 50x30 isn't *that* much when the pad is being dug, cement trucks are all there, metal buildings are relatively cheap anyway, etc....

Bobcat · May 11, 2008

Here's roughly what Mouse Ears is working with. Right now there are 3 small structures along the bottom 90' perimeter: a 1 car garage, a tool shed, an a small store room. They will be razed of course. So there's the space, funding is another thing.

I'm not so sure metal buildings are so cheap anymore. The cost of fuel to haul the metal around must affect the price.

Big Dog · May 11, 2008

Well I've be figuring on a size for a year and finally decided on 36(40)x48x12. Started as 40x60 but I just don't have the 60 were I want to put it. I want a 10' door for the tractor and trailer. The 48 is for 3 bays without an issue opening vehicle doors and the 36 (maybe 40) is for 2 vehicles front to back in each bay if I would ever need it. Yeah, I have 6 vehicles for 3 drivers ..... :pat:

, probably never have more than 2 in it and more important is the toys and power equipment.

I've done everything including using cutouts to scale of everything I can drive and will go in it. The tools and work area is destined for a rear corner and rr for the opposite rear corner. This all reminds me, I need to start searching for a contractor .......... :bonk:

BigAl · May 11, 2008

Finally !

Something I can comment about about from knowledge .

1. Increase or decrease in 2' segments . Its cheaper .
2. Try to clear span the roof .
3. A 5" steel reinforced concrete slab will work find unless you plan to have heavy equiptment on her .(Use #3000 lb 6 sack mix with 1/2" rebar on 24" centers both ways .) At a $100 plus per cu yd of concrete you will save money .
4. A short concrete stem wall on the perimeter is nice if you ever want to wash it out .Don't forget the floor drain .
5. You can never have too many electical plugs.
6. If your having a car lift ,go with 14' ceiling height or use a scissor truss .
7.Put in a 3/4 bath if you can . They are so handy .
8. Put in a good exhaust fan .
9. Put in the best lighting you can afford .
10. A walk in door
11. Good insulation . The spray on stuff is crap if you are using a metal building .
12. Radiate heat is great but a good wood stove works pretty well too . Just make sure to install a fan for air movement .
13. If security is not a huge issue add lots of windows for natural light .
14. A wide roof overhang to keep the snow away .
15. Design the roof so it does not dump the snow in front of the roll up doors .
16. Man door should be 3' mimimun and the drive thur doors should be 12' wide and as tall as the building hieght will allow .
17. Design a area to house the Air Compressor that is enclosed and pulls its air supply from outside . Less noise .
18. A PHONE .

There more but this is a good start .

Bobcat · May 11, 2008

If he intends on storing or restoring Kristis in there, then security will be an issue. Them snot trackers are always trying to steal our secrets. Lots of windows should be ok as long as they are made of one-way glass and incorporate steel bars...electrified steel bars. :brows:

Big Dog · May 11, 2008

BigAl said:
Finally ! Something I can comment about about from knowledge .

1. Increase or decrease in 2' segments . Its cheaper .
2. Try to clear span the roof .
3. A 5" steel reinforced concrete slab will work find unless you plan to have heavy equiptment on her .(Use #3000 lb 6 sack mix with 1/2" rebar on 24" centers both ways .) At a $100 plus per cu yd of concrete you will save money .
4. A short concrete stem wall on the perimeter is nice if you ever want to wash it out .Don't forget the floor drain .
5. You can never have too many electical plugs.
6. If your having a car lift ,go with 14' ceiling height or use a scissor truss .
7.Put in a 3/4 bath if you can . They are so handy .
8. Put in a good exhaust fan .
9. Put in the best lighting you can afford .
10. A walk in door
11. Good insulation . The spray on stuff is crap if you are using a metal building .
12. Radiate heat is great but a good wood stove works pretty well too . Just make sure to install a fan for air movement .
13. If security is not a huge issue add lots of windows for natural light .
14. A wide roof overhang to keep the snow away .
15. Design the roof so it does not dump the snow in front of the roll up doors .
16. Man door should be 3' mimimun and the drive thur doors should be 12' wide and as tall as the building hieght will allow .
17. Design a area to house the Air Compressor that is enclosed and pulls its air supply from outside . Less noise .
18. A PHONE .

There more but this is a good start .

Wanna sub mine? :brows:

Snowcat Operations · May 11, 2008

BIGAL,
Thanks for all the pointers. I will be using a 9 sack mix with 3/4" rock and poly fibers. I like my concrete really strong. A stem wall is also in my plans since I do plan on being able to wash it out.

NorthernRedneck · May 11, 2008

How about a drain hole in the floor going to outside? My bro has a decent size shop for his and my dads big rigs and the floor drain really helps in the winter when they pull a truck in full of snow. The snow melts(of course) and can make quite a mess on the floor.

BigAl · May 11, 2008

Snowcat Operations said:
BIGAL,
Thanks for all the pointers. I will be using a 9 sack mix with 3/4" rock and poly fibers. I like my concrete really strong. A stem wall is also in my plans since I do plan on being able to wash it out.

Mike ! Don't use the Bonnie fibers . Its just a gimmick . They do very little as far as helping strenghtening the concrete .It will make your slab look like it needs a shave !! Steel rebar is much better . Also 9 sack mix is "Way Overkill" . A 6 sack mix will equal a great comcrete slab . If you want a higher PSI you can use bigger rock than 3/4 and keep the slump at about 4 " but it will require a lot of men to get it down and properly finished . Use a power trowel to obtain a really flat and smooth finish . In the "trade" it is called a "Burnt Finish" .

BigAl · May 11, 2008

Big Dog said:
Wanna sub mine?

I would love too, if I had time and I think you would like my going rate . 37 cents a hour .
I did all the design and engineering for Projects in the Construction company my father owned for years .

I have already offered my design and engineering services to build a New Waterfront Home in Georgetown, Exumas this summer and it looks like I may be off to the small Island in Hawaii for a little while to take care of a deck project that was started 2 years ago and is a total mess that my cousin owns.

Big Dog · May 11, 2008

BigAl said:
I would love too, if I had time and I think you would like my going rate . 37 cents a hour .
I did all the design and engineering for Projects in the Construction company my father owned for years .

I have already offered my design and engineering services to build a New Waterfront Home in Georgetown, Exumas this summer and it looks like I may be off to the small Island in Hawaii for a little while to take care of a deck project that was started 2 years ago and is a total mess that my cousin owns.

How long would the wait be ........... :smile:

Seriously, I'd like to talk more ............ If possible, could we take it off forum if you get a chance?

I'm wrestling with metal or wood frame. I want open span and not sure if I can do it with wood for the size.

Thanks,

Dawg

Dargo · May 11, 2008

Big Dog said:
I want open span and not sure if I can do it with wood for the size.

Thanks,

Dawg

You do know that now companies build trusses engineered to hold 3' of snow on top and free span 120'. If you need a free span that is rated for 4' to 6' of snow on the roof they can only span 100'. How big are you going?

Big Dog · May 11, 2008

Dargo said:
You do know that now companies build trusses engineered to hold 3' of snow on top and free span 120'. If you need a free span that is rated for 4' to 6' of snow on the roof they can only span 100'. How big are you going?

I did not for wood and 48" .......... point me in the right direction!

Snowcat Operations · May 11, 2008

BigAl,
I have used 9 sack mix many times and the poly fibers do help. But Rebar is always required no matter what the job is if you use concrete. 5/8 rebar in the slab with 6x6 wire mesh and 3/4 in the footings. After the slab has had a few months to dry I will come in and coat it with an epoxy based paint.

Drain: Yes I will have a very nice floor drain. I will also have on one side a mechanics floor work area. This is an area where you can stand up in under a car as it is parked in the garage. This will also come in handy draining those OC-12s!

Dargo · May 11, 2008

Big Dog said:
I did not for wood and 48" .......... point me in the right direction!

Yeah, and they have to be certified rather frequently with a random truss tested for strength. The Amish outfit I got my stuff from actually supplies both the metal and trusses for quite a few post frame building companies. The company who built my last barn told me that they built the trusses themselves and that they were the metal suppliers for this part of the country. I later found out that they bought all the materials from this Amish outfit. :bonk:

Anyway, you do need to specify whether you're going to add a ceiling when getting quotes on trusses since a 5/8" drywall ceiling weighs quite a bit. My old barn has a ceiling in it, but I'm not putting one in my new barn. Here is the website for the guys I'm talking about Graber. They also did an indoor riding stable for a friend of my dad's. His building is a 100X160 and is clear span. Even though it only has 16' eave height, it makes my barn look tiny!

Oh, I almost forgot, I believe the Amish could teach the Jewish a few things when it comes to negotiating; if you know what I mean.

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