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Obamacare/US health care system

NorthernRedneck

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Not sure if this is a true story or not but regardless I've heard countless other stories similar to this where people have lost everything in order to pay medical bills. How can a country who's claim to fame is that it's the greatest place on earth support a flawed health care system that would all but bankrupt anyone who has even the slightest health issue.

Our system is far from perfect but at least I know I won't be bankrupt for having health issues lately. Can you imagine where I'd be right now if I didn't have coverage? All of the medical tests scans appointments almost a month in the hospital over the past two years. The list goes on. And not being able to work to pay for benefits. I'd definitely be bankrupt. Anyways. Here's the link to a sad story......

https://topday.com/old-man-sells-wo...-bills-then-neighbor-learns-she-already-died/

living the dream
 

road squawker

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
.... and what will you do if the medical procerdues you need are NOT covered?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...bills/&usg=AFQjCNFzw62QyIi_csQCXAwHpL2MZJ9zTQ

"Consider Canada. Our neighbor to the north features a government-run, single-payer healthcare system where private insurance is outlawed for procedures covered under the law. So you'd think that Canada would have a lower rate of bankruptcy than the United States, what with one big potential cause of bankruptcy — the cost of health care — absorbed by the government.

But according to researchers at the Fraser Institute, a nonpartisan Canadian think tank, bankruptcy rates are statistically the same on both sides of the 49th parallel. In both the United States and Canada, less than one-third of 1 percent of families file for bankruptcy each year.

Further, even with a socialized healthcare system, some Canadians go bankrupt because of medical expenses. Approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors — those 55 and older — cited medical reasons, including uninsured expenses, as the main culprit for their insolvency."
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I was born in the UK and I've lived in the States for over 30 years. I've lived under the UK National Health system and the US free market system and both are flawed but both do have redeeming features. I don't know if there is one single answer to turn either in to a Health Care Utopia. I somehow doubt it.

What I will say is that given my particular circumstances, I would choose the American system ... but not Obabacare which I regard as the biggest con ever pulled on the American people. .
 

mla2ofus

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
What I will say is that given my particular circumstances, I would choose the American system ... but not Obamacare which I regard as the biggest con ever pulled on the American people. .

And Jonathan Gruber stated they got it passed due to the stupidity of the American voter.
Mike
 

road squawker

Active member
GOLD Site Supporter
Agreed. Like I've said. Our system is far from perfect. So what's the answer?

living the dream

Well, all I can say, is that I planned ahead, made some difficult employment decisions a long time ago, and my health insurance coverage is great and reasonably priced.

Not to get into all the details, but, I do have Major medical bills, in the last 3 weeks alone, my medical bills were almost $300k ($284k to be exact), and my out of pocket cost/co-pay/ect was $36.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
Agreed. Like I've said. Our system is far from perfect. So what's the answer?

living the dream

There is no easy answer, Redneck, that is the irony of this whole debate. Both systems, yours and ours, have their good points and their bad points.

Being post 65 I like my Medicare. I wish for this country we could afford to start working the age down for Medicare qualification to 55 and then downward as we could afford it but that is not going to happen.

Medicare also permits supplemental insurance to cover the 20% if one wishes to purchase it. They are not forced to or even encouraged to. It is there, private sector furnished if one wishes to purchase it for added coverage. It works great for me as I have had zero copays or deductables in the 3 years I have had it.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
There is no easy answer, Redneck, that is the irony of this whole debate. Both systems, yours and ours, have their good points and their bad points.

Being post 65 I like my Medicare. I wish for this country we could afford to start working the age down for Medicare qualification to 55 and then downward as we could afford it but that is not going to happen.

Medicare also permits supplemental insurance to cover the 20% if one wishes to purchase it. They are not forced to or even encouraged to. It is there, private sector furnished if one wishes to purchase it for added coverage. It works great for me as I have had zero copays or deductables in the 3 years I have had it.

That's basically what I was talking about when I said, "In my particular circumstances". I'm on Medicare and still get supplemental through my late employer at a very reasonable rate. For me, medical insurance isn't a hardship. For example, I just spent most of yesterday going through my annual cardiac evaluation and discussion with my cardiologist, cost to me ... $0.

We can get in to a long discussion on what is wrong with both the American system and the Canadian/British system but what is needed is some amalgamation of the two ... and that ain't going to happen. It's as if they are mutually exclusive. It's either one or the other but there isn't a doubt in my mind that, given my circumstances, I'd rather be in the American system.
 

Danang Sailor

nullius in verba
GOLD Site Supporter
UPDATE: Obamacare/US health care system

Here is some data from the GoFundMe page set up regarding the OP:

This campaign is trending!

$107,095 of $60k goal

Raised by 4,434 people in 10 days

Hopefully this will solve the man's financial problems.
 

J5 Bombardier

Well-known member
Definitely a combined system of the two, like the swiss use is something to consider. Up here in some provinces, private clinics offer MRI 's etc ,but the Federal govt is constantly threatening to cut the cash to the provinces if they wander to far to the private care side. The irony is as a Quebec resident , if I was to get sick in another province ,they may not pay in full that other province for my treatment . So they won't let you die , but don't expect universal care across the country. This system swallows all the money you can shovel into it, with no end in sight, user fees, semi private system, no Canadian federal politician is ready to tackle this yet, but it will have to be addressed sometime soon. J5 Bombardier
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
That's been the problem with every state sponsored health care system that I've been exposed to. They always end up being underfunded and service and treatment suffer. The British system was founded in the late 1940s when the height of medical technology was an X-Ray and penicillin was a wonder drug. It was a Godsend to the poor working class but we've come a long way since then. The money that people pay in to the system can't cover the new technology and procedures and the government won't raise the rates substantially because it would lead to a popular revolt.

In America there is no shortage of technology and medical access but you pay for it and it all depends on your employer and how large the company is. If you work for a small company you probably have limited or no health insurance and if anyone makes a substantial claim, the insurance company will pay but may well drop everybody when it comes time to renew. Try getting a new policy!!! That's happened more than once.

I don't know anything about the Swiss system so I can't comment but the British system is slowly evolving in to a hybrid system of state sponsored coverage supplemented by private insurance ... for those that can afford it or have it supplied through their employer.

I do agree with NR though. I think that it's criminal that a couple can work hard during their whole life only to have their life savings wiped out by health problems as they age.
 
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LanceMack

New member
That is a touching story of a man who was selling kindling but it boils down to the fact that if you are on Medicare and have supplemental insurance then the bills don't run so high. If you don't have supplemental insurance don't cry when the large bills come rolling in. If they run high enough then declare bankruptcy and default on the bills. There is Medicaid for all bills when you are destitute. I really don't get people who expect to keep their house or bank accounts while the government pays for their healthcare. The purpose of a country isn't to provide for your healthcare, not unless they can force you to exercise, eat well , and not drink or smoke. I am a member of a group where the founder had cancer but wasn't insured properly and had to pay a lot of money out of pocket. Then all the collections started to pay for his treatment. Do I really have to feel obligated to pay for someone else bills because of their shortsightedness? I work very hard in order to save up for my retirement and subsequent healthcare costs. I work on average a sixty hour week and if the bills look tight I work more hours. I don't buy coffee or food on the go, I don't buy food or water from convenience stores and I am frugal with the money I spend unless I am on vacation.
Lance
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
That's one of the things that I am continually having to explain to people in the UK. They seem to think that if you are American and you don't have health insurance that you are left to die with no health care at all.

I have to explain to them about Medicaid and the fact that if you are sick in the US you can turn up at any hospital emergency department and by law, you must be treated. I also explain that the hospitals in these cases know that they will, most likely, never be paid so they up the costs to their insured patients and the insurance companies pass their increased costs on to their customers in increased premiums. So, at the end of the day we insured patients end up paying for the uninsured anyway.

By the way, I know of several younger people in their 20s and 30s who have never enrolled in Obamacare. They're quite happy to pay the penalty in their income taxes rather than pay the premiums. That's one of the reasons that Obamacare is failing.
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
That's one of the things that I am continually having to explain to people in the UK. They seem to think that if you are American and you don't have health insurance that you are left to die with no health care at all.

I have to explain to them about Medicaid and the fact that if you are sick in the US you can turn up at any hospital emergency department and by law, you must be treated. I also explain that the hospitals in these cases know that they will, most likely, never be paid so they up the costs to their insured patients and the insurance companies pass their increased costs on to their customers in increased premiums. So, at the end of the day we insured patients end up paying for the uninsured anyway.

By the way, I know of several younger people in their 20s and 30s who have never enrolled in Obamacare. They're quite happy to pay the penalty in their income taxes rather than pay the premiums. That's one of the reasons that Obamacare is failing.

Turn back the clock for me back in my twenties and no way in hell I spend my beer money on some health insurance I would never use. If not for it through the union I would have gone years without it.
 

EastTexFrank

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Turn back the clock for me back in my twenties and no way in hell I spend my beer money on some health insurance I would never use. If not for it through the union I would have gone years without it.

I'm not criticizing!!! I was just pointing out the whole naive concept that the whole Obamacare concept was founded on.
 

Deadly Sushi

The One, The Only, Sushi
SUPER Site Supporter
$350 a month for one man. $6500 deductible. Still has Co-Pays!

I rather pay a penalty than get this shit insurance! :hammer:
 

NorthernRedneck

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
Right now I'm paying $150 a month for health and dental and vision for me and my whole family (wife and four kids). It's a good plan with adequate coverage to take care of all our needs including me going to physio three times a week for the past 14 months. Whatever mine doesn't cover my wife's does. So whatever isn't covered by ohip (Ontario health insurance plan) is covered by either my or my wife's benefits. There's 6 of us and 4 who require glasses which run close to $400 a pair. We usually don't have to pay a penny for them.

For example. When I had my accident ohip covers a four bed hospital ward room which is standard. My insurance bumps it up to a semi private room with two beds. My wife's then combines with mine to make it a private room.

And not all medication is covered by ohip. So again our private insurance tops it up.

living the dream.
 

LanceMack

New member
There are four people in my household that wear glasses. I have two to three pairs for the kids and two pairs of no line bifocals for the wife. I get them at Zennis online and they cost from seven dollars a pair to the no line bifocals thirty five dollars. I have never paid more than forty five for the most specialized pair. Best place around to get them.
Lance
 

tiredretired

The Old Salt
SUPER Site Supporter
I'm not criticizing!!! I was just pointing out the whole naive concept that the whole Obamacare concept was founded on.

I knew that. If we were sitting at a bar having this conversation, the inflection in my voice would have indicated that. Keyboards can be a bitch sometimes. :biggrin:
 
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