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Tractor Hydraulic Valve question

Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Hey guys, bit of a problem with my TNT system. The side tilt works fine. The top cylinder works if I hook it up to something OTHER than my tractor. But on the tractor the top cylinder does not work. Obviously the valve is a problem. Any ideas what can go wrong in a 4 way valve to prevent flow to the top cylinder but allow it to flow to the side link cylinder?

Can't even figure out how to fix this myself (which is typical) so I guess it will be off to the hydraulics shop one of these days. But it just seems odd because the whole system has only been used for 6 months. Thoughts?
 
Junkman

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
A detent ball or spring might be hung up. I suggest that you give the valve a gentle tap with a small hammer on the side. Nothing more than a 5# hammer should be correct for that application. Junk....
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
The valve is a 2" thick by 6" by 6" metal box. Hydraulic lines all feed into the "left" 2" thick side. They feed out the "right" 2" thick side. The joystick is on the "top" 2" thick side. A 6" x 6" side is exposed and flat. The opposite 6" x 6" side is held close to a bracket but is partiall exposed. The bottom side is exposed.

Where do I hit it???
 
Junkman

Junkman

Extra Super Moderator
Doesn't matter, as long as you give it a couple of raps on the cast iron. The energy will transfer the shock waves to the entire valve. If something is stuck, it might just break loose. The idea is to give it a shock, not to break the casting. I use a dead blow plastic faced hammer a lot for these type of things, but a small ball peen will also work. They were around a lot longer than dead blow hammers which are relatively new to the market... about 10 years..
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well at this point it can't hurt, its already broke! My brother has a rule. If its broke, use a bigger hammer. Sounds like he went to school with you!
 
v8dave

v8dave

Wizard
B_Skurka said:
Well at this point it can't hurt, its already broke! My brother has a rule. If its broke, use a bigger hammer. Sounds like he went to school with you!
Click to expand...

Yep, if brute force doesn't work, you aren't using enough.

They used to make lead faced hammers for this type of work. Haven't seen any recently, just the heavy rubber ones and they are only good for closing paint cans. I use a block of wood and hammer, that way there is no point contact from the hammer to break the part I'm working over. :rolleyes:

If there is a joy stick on the valve body, peel the cover off the top of the valve body and examine the action and valve actuators sticking out of the body. You may be able to find the "sticky" part that way.

Dave
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well a simple beating with a hammer did NOT do the trick. My valve is still giving me fits. I tried beating on every possible surface I could beat on last night. All to no avail.

Looks like I will have to disconnect it and run it into the hydraulic's shop. Now I just have to find the time to do that!
 
J

JerryG

New member
Bob,
I would say that you have a bad quick disconnect. I have one just like that, that needs to be replaced. I just have to take time to do it.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
JerryG said:
Bob,
I would say that you have a bad quick disconnect. I have one just like that, that needs to be replaced. I just have to take time to do it.
Click to expand...


Silly me, I didn't even think of the disconnect. I had not gotten around to it but I was going to remove the whole unit from the tractor and take it into the hydraulic shop to have them fix it. I'll play around with the disconnect and see if it is just that simple!
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well the saga of my broken Top N Tilt system continues.

Out of frustration I switched over to the original top link and side link. I just dropped the entire TNT system off at my local hydraulic shop for them to fix. The TOP cylinder works when they tested it in their shop, but not on the tractor. The side cylinder works on the tractor. The quick connects are all fine. The only thing left is the valve. It seems to be the culprit. It works great with the side tilt. I will OCCASIONALLY allow me to retract the top cylinder. It SOMETIMES will allow me to extend the top cylinder, but usually it won't allow me to do a darn thing at all with the top cylinder.


So I dropped the whole thing on their shop floor and asked them to have it fixed by spring! Good thing I don't need it for blowing snow.
 
C

Chief

New member
Sorry to hear about your troubles Bob. Unfortunately, the valve body usually has to be disassembled to find the stuck check ball or blown/cut packing causing the problem. Very occasionally a piece of debry of some kind can get lodged in the valve. The usual culprit I found when rebuilding backhoe valve bodys was a blown or torn packing or a piece of a packing the got lodged in a spoil valve. It is a trial and error process that requires the tractor to be near by to test out the valve assembly after you finish working on it. Hope you can get it fixed on the cheap.
 
M

MadReferee

New member
I assume you swapped the hoses to the cylinders and the problem moved to the tilt cylinder.

You probably have a bad o-ring or spring. Today's newer valves have very few parts, maybe just one spring and a few o-rings. The spool itself is a solid rod with grooves and channels. I'll bet an o-ring has slipped and lodged itself where it shouldn't be or the load check spring/poppet is stuck.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mad, I tried everything. Even tried a bigger hammer when nothing else would work.
 
M

MadReferee

New member
A hammer won't fix a mis-aligned o-ring or broken poppet spring.

The only place where a detent ball would be is if your spool has float or a hold open position and then it would be in the cap that is attached to the valve itself. Most all TNT valves do not have detents.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
And I suppose that is why it is now at the hydraulic shop!!!

I know only enough about hydraulics to be dangerous.

But I do like the TNT set up and think it is the best thing ever to put on a tractor. It is simply amazing how much more you can accomplish with a back blade, and how much faster you can accomplish it, when you control it with a TNT system.

And while you are on line, is there some sort of simple electric diverter that can be used to control a grapple on the TC24D? Something were I can just T off of the loader hoses and control the grapple?
 
M

MadReferee

New member
B_Skurka said:
is there some sort of simple electric diverter that can be used to control a grapple on the TC24D? Something were I can just T off of the loader hoses and control the grapple?
Click to expand...

Check with Surplus Center. They have several that will work. Also check the makers of the commercial grapples. They have them too but are costly. Getting the parts for the joystick button will be the interesting part unless you go with a commercial supplier.
 
Melensdad

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Mad, I'd certainly want to go with a complete solution if sourcing parts to assemble one myself would become a nightmare.

Any suggestions on various brands?

Again, this is for smaller tractors. It would also be nice if it was somewhat transportable so I could switch it between tractors. Obviously I'd have to duplicate the hydraulic line diverters on both tractors, but using quick connects I should be able to move the grapple assembly from one to the other.
 
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