• Please be sure to read the rules and adhere to them. Some banned members have complained that they are not spammers. But they spammed us. Some even tried to redirect our members to other forums. Duh. Be smart. Read the rules and adhere to them and we will all get along just fine. Cheers. :beer: Link to the rules: https://www.forumsforums.com/threads/forum-rules-info.2974/

Collusion, or are automakers all tree hugging enviro wackos?

JEV

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
Lawmaker seeks fuel regulation answers

GOP's Issa sends letters to 15 car company execs on proposed '17-25 rules

David Shepardson/ Detroit News Washington Bureau

Washington— The chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee wants the chief executives of 15 major automakers to answer detailed questions about the government's 2017-25 proposed fuel economy regulations.
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., sent 11-page letters late Monday to top executives at General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co., Chrysler Group LLC, Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co., Honda Motor Co., Hyundai Motor Co. and eight other automakers.
It's the latest sign that the committee is ramping up its investigation into the government's proposal to hike fuel standards to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025, a proposal the White House says will cost the auto industry $157 billion.
Issa, who has been looking into the issue since July, now wants the dates and names of all company officials who participated in meetings between the White House and California that culminated in a framework deal in late July between most major automakers to hike the requirements.
Under the deal, the California Air Resources Board agreed not to proceed with its own state rules.
Issa wants automakers to answer detailed questions about how the proposal will affect auto sales, safety and consumer choice, and whether the government is treating diesel vehicles fairly.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Let's see here,,,,,GM is owned Lock stock and Brrel by the government and the union
Chrysler was a gift to Fiat who would like to be in the American market
Ford gave Barry the finger but would like to stay in business...

Exactly, what would they say to the demands of a communist leadership?

"Yes sir. How High sir?"
 
joec

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
I wasn't aware the fuel mileage standard was such a bad thing. One would think that fuel mileage would not only make us less dependent or foreign oil but perhaps less spent at the pumps. They have been setting gas mileage standards for a long time now with them going up now for decades.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
joec said:
I wasn't aware the fuel mileage standard was such a bad thing. One would think that fuel mileage would not only make us less dependent or foreign oil but perhaps less spent at the pumps. They have been setting gas mileage standards for a long time now with them going up now for decades.
Click to expand...

Federal fuel milage demands, CAFE, have been in place for years. Cars used to average 6-7 miles per gallon. Now we are buying cars in the 30's. Are we therefore now less dependent on foreign oil?

NOPE.

I don' t think your plan is workin' Joec.
 
joec

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
FrancSevin said:
Federal fuel milage demands, CAFE, have been in place for years. Cars used to average 6-7 miles per gallon. Now we are buying cars in the 30's. Are we therefore now less dependent on foreign oil?

NOPE.

I don' t think your plan is workin' Joec.
Click to expand...

My plan, it figures.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
joec said:
My plan, it figures.
Click to expand...
OK your logic then..Changes the facts how?
Stop makin' it personal Joe.

Our automobiles are not the only energy sink in the system. But higher MPG fuel economies would be helpful. However, don't believe any carmaker is bragging how close they are to Meeting CAFE. Theyjust market their car's fuel efficiency over the competition.

But the concept that higher CAFE's will cause a reduction in oil imports is a false one. We will buy the cheapest oil we can and right now the OPEC cartels determine how "cheap" it is. And why not, all they have to do is sneeze and barrel prices skyrocket.

Because we simply cannot replace their oil in the world market system with our own. And raising CAFE requirements to 100MPG won't change that.
 
joec

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
FrancSevin said:
OK your logic then..Changes the facts how?
Stop makin' it personal Joe.

Our automobiles are not the only energy sink in the system. But higher MPG fuel economies would be helpful. However, don't believe any carmaker is bragging how close they are to Meeting CAFE. Theyjust market their car's fuel efficiency over the competition.

But the concept that higher CAFE's will cause a reduction in oil imports is a false one. We will buy the cheapest oil we can and right now the OPEC cartels determine how "cheap" it is. And why not, all they have to do is sneeze and barrel prices skyrocket.

Because we simply cannot replace their oil in the world market system with our own. And raising CAFE requirements to 100MPG won't change that.
Click to expand...

First off I'm not the one making it personal that seem to be coming from you.

Now back to the OP. Perhaps it won't make us less dependent on foreign oil but I owned a number of corvettes in my life the last being a 427 1963 that would get 10 mpg on the highway. Top HP was about 425 but compared to the cars today a new vette as decked out as mine was will get 35 mpg and puts out close to 560 hp. The point being that the cars in an effort to get better mileage really have improved over the years.

Now as for CAFE standard no they don't advertise them as meeting them but they do compare them to other makers cars as in this day and age it seems to be important to buyers. Now I have a 400 hp Mustang that gets all of 12 mpg on the highway however it gets driven little compared to my daily ride that gets 35 mpg.

As for the price of gas I give it little thought anymore. The price and CAFE standards I have no control over.
 
waybomb

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
JEV said:
the White House says will cost the auto industry $157 billion.
Click to expand...

It will not cost the auto industry a phukin dime. Not even a phukin penny. It will cost US car buyers $157 thousand million. $157,000,000,000.00

Hey folks, been getting forecasts for 2012 food ingredient costs. I am guessing protein based foods will cost you about 15% more next year by this time. Of course, that's not inflation.
 
joec

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
waybomb said:
It will not cost the auto industry a phukin dime. Not even a phukin penny. It will cost US car buyers $157 thousand million. $157,000,000,000.00

Hey folks, been getting forecasts for 2012 food ingredient costs. I am guessing protein based foods will cost you about 15% more next year by this time. Of course, that's not inflation.
Click to expand...

Now that we can agree on.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
waybomb said:
It will not cost the auto industry a phukin dime. Not even a phukin penny. It will cost US car buyers $157 thousand million. $157,000,000,000.00

Hey folks, been getting forecasts for 2012 food ingredient costs. I am guessing protein based foods will cost you about 15% more next year by this time. Of course, that's not inflation.
Click to expand...


Bingo Waybomb.

Corporations don' pay taxes, they collect them for the government. Same thing with costly regs. If the government places such requirements on the manufacturers then the costs are passed on to the consummers. Not just in dollars but in value.

If you like Corvettes, they get awful milage compared to an econobox, so for every Vette sold they must foist a fleet of Cobalt four bangers out there. The Corporate fleet averages means the carmakers must average that milage fleetwide. They can sell a great car to the elite rich guy but then must find buyers for the crap at the bottom. Hardly market driven sales.

My question is this, there is only so much energy in a gallon of gas. We are reaching the top of that parabola. So the only way to acheive higher CAFEs is to sell more electric cars. Which do not use as much fuel on the road but actually use more overall. Energy which must come from power plants 60% of which use dirtier coal.
Not to mention the power loss (a complete waste) to transmit the power and step it down for charging the car overnite in the carport.

It's the same shell shuffle exactly done as the money games played in DC. In the end it is not really green but the theatrics make it appear as such. a complete obvious control sham. And yet the Sheoples buy it.
 
grizzer

grizzer

New member
I'm waiting to see the econobox engine stop/start feature get junked. 1000W of power accessories running along with 1.5KW of engine starter every 20 feet in a snow storm at night for 3 hours at -30F.

No heat, frosted over windows and finally no start. One death & Obama cars will be grandma killers...
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Allthis control crap tht the government put'son free enterprise just runs up the costs. Usually, it doesn't even change the behavior as the beaurocrats envisioned. Companies ether pass the costs along,the lower quality along, or simply outsmart the system

To Wit:
http://godfatherpolitics.com/2375/mcdonalds-outsmarts-san-francisco-government/


So now the consumer pays more for the same product for which McDonalds has been allowed,in order to comply with the mandate, to charge for something that was free.

Government, ours in particular, should remember that the original plan was for them to be limited, not the people or their choices. I suggest, next November, we remind them.
 
Cowboy

Cowboy

Wait for it.
GOLD Site Supporter
What gets me is, if by the year 2025 we are still using gasoline and old combustion engines WTF difference is mpg gonna make. :unsure:

Besides I have allways beleived the technology has exsisted for quite sometime where 100 + MPG has been possible, there just aint no money to be made for the oil companys with something like that. :whistling:
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
thcri said:
Well after the one I rode in about three months ago it don't concern me none as I won't be buying one. My pickup has three times the room and is way more comfortable. GM's own pickups has three times the room.
Click to expand...


I believe you put your finger on the point here boys.
But a big pickup guzzles gas by comparison and brings down the CAFE.

So??????????????????????????????

Right now you have a choice.

What will Ya'll say when you do not.?
 
joec

joec

New member
GOLD Site Supporter
Actually though some of the V6 are approaching the same HP as the V8 with other advantages such as being lighter in weight. Todays engines are really getting much more efficient than in my days of playing with them.
 
Bamby

Bamby

New member
FrancSevin said:
I believe you put your finger on the point here boys.
But a big pickup guzzles gas by comparison and brings down the CAFE.

So??????????????????????????????

Right now you have a choice.

What will Ya'll say when you do not.?
Click to expand...

I'll call you on this one first see This and This. I happen to on a full size Chevy 5.3 PU and when I could still obtain non-corn fuel it would come within tenths of getting 20mpg average or should I say combined. I allow that now that it's corn fed it's dropped off to about 17 but that's another story. But even the Caddies some with six cylinders don't seem to fair much better. Course I haft to wonder whether they were feeding corn or not to the Caddies also.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Bamby said:
I'll call you on this one first see This and This. I happen to on a full size Chevy 5.3 PU and when I could still obtain non-corn fuel it would come within tenths of getting 20mpg average or should I say combined. I allow that now that it's corn fed it's dropped off to about 17 but that's another story. But even the Caddies some with six cylinders don't seem to fair much better. Course I haft to wonder whether they were feeding corn or not to the Caddies also.
Click to expand...

Call what?,,20 MPG,,that is so 90's


20 MPG?
Geez, I get that with my '95 one ton.

A decent econobox gets 35. My dad's 1991 V/8 Caddy got 30 MPG

My 2006 Chysler Crossfire gets close to 30 MPG with 290 HP.

Proposals are that CAFE's are going to 50- 60 MPG

Wihout Electric hybrids, we will not even get close to that. Not with Pick ups and SUV's in the mix.

So,,,what are you calling?
 
Last edited:
waybomb

waybomb

Well-known member
GOLD Site Supporter
I get about a gallon a mile............
Even less when I want to paste bugs on my teeth.
 
Doc

Doc

Bottoms Up
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I have never got 20mpg with any of my pickups. 18 was the absolute best and that was not the norm. My dad had a few of the 90's caddys and they did good to get 25mpg. 30 out of a 91 is unheard of. I did see 99mpg on the caddy calculator but that was with my foot off the gas and coasting down a hill. The calculated average was always in the low 20's, even on the 99 caddy.

Like fred, I get one to three mpg on my for fun vehicles. That's okay ...they're worth it.
 
FrancSevin

FrancSevin

Proudly Deplorable
GOLD Site Supporter
Doc said:
I have never got 20mpg with any of my pickups. 18 was the absolute best and that was not the norm. My dad had a few of the 90's caddys and they did good to get 25mpg. 30 out of a 91 is unheard of. I did see 99mpg on the caddy calculator but that was with my foot off the gas and coasting down a hill. The calculated average was always in the low 20's, even on the 99 caddy.

Like fred, I get one to three mpg on my for fun vehicles. That's okay ...they're worth it.
Click to expand...

I drove from St Louis to Des Moines with him. He always bragged about it. Didn't believe it myself till then.

Maybe because it was light blue?????

And I do get 20 MPG highway out of my one ton Diesel. 55-60 MPH.

I don't keep it because it's purty.

All besides the point. We simply cannot get vehicle milage to 55 Miles per gallon of fuel. There simply is not enough energy in a gallon of gasoline, diesel and or coal to do it. The CAFE's may get there because we are all driving Volts, and Leafs but that still isn't 55 miles per actually consumed gallons of fuel.

Ethanol, diesel coal, Propane,,,,doesn't matter.

My "fun" vehicle gets 30 MPG but not cause I'm green. It's Saphire Silver Blue and says "Powered by Mercedes Benz" on the side.

STLMay08-07.jpg
 
Last edited:
muleman

muleman

Gone But Not Forgotten
GOLD Site Supporter
My Prius averaged 59 mpg following the Deuce from Virginia. That included a lot of hill running and was the average over 640 miles. Was probably the first time it was ever run that slow on the interstate. I sure did not take it too easy on the way down to Virginia.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top