I'm new to the Pacific Northwest and looking for insight into the usage of snow-cats on land here. Where can you use them? Only on your personal private property, federal land, are there trails? I'm originally from New Hampshire and had an old Tucker out there and we were mostly limited to using it on our farm, but I wasn't sure if things were different out here. Thanks Chris
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Usage in Washington State
- Thread starter CFS
- Start date
PJL
Well-known member
Welcome aboard CFS. I'm in Washington State. There are a lot of Washington cat users here that will be happy to chime in with their 2 cents worth of advice.
Washington defines a snowcat as an ATV. So I guess anywhere ATV's are allowed you can operate a snowcat.
"All terrain vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle other than a snowmobile, capable of cross-country travel on or immediately over land, water, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, and other natural terrain, including, but not limited to, four-wheel vehicles, amphibious vehicles, ground effect or air cushion vehicles, and any other means of land transportation deriving motive power from any source other than muscle or wind; except any vehicle designed primarily for travel on, over, or in the water, farm vehicles, or any military or law enforcement vehicles.
Oddly enough the legal definition of snowmobile in this state would mean a 2 track Tucker steered by skis is a snowmobile.
"Snowmobile" means a self-propelled vehicle that is capable of traveling over snow or ice that (1) utilizes as its means of propulsion an endless belt tread or cleats, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated, (2) is steered wholly or in part by skis or sled type runners, and (3) is not otherwise registered as, or subject to, the motor vehicle excise tax in the state of Washington.
My LMC1200 is owned by a county agency and used for search and rescue and occasional winter mountain top radio tower access.
The general feeling I get from reading snowmobile forums is that groomed trails are a no no.
Washington defines a snowcat as an ATV. So I guess anywhere ATV's are allowed you can operate a snowcat.
"All terrain vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle other than a snowmobile, capable of cross-country travel on or immediately over land, water, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, and other natural terrain, including, but not limited to, four-wheel vehicles, amphibious vehicles, ground effect or air cushion vehicles, and any other means of land transportation deriving motive power from any source other than muscle or wind; except any vehicle designed primarily for travel on, over, or in the water, farm vehicles, or any military or law enforcement vehicles.
Oddly enough the legal definition of snowmobile in this state would mean a 2 track Tucker steered by skis is a snowmobile.
"Snowmobile" means a self-propelled vehicle that is capable of traveling over snow or ice that (1) utilizes as its means of propulsion an endless belt tread or cleats, or any combination of these or other similar means of contact with the surface upon which it is operated, (2) is steered wholly or in part by skis or sled type runners, and (3) is not otherwise registered as, or subject to, the motor vehicle excise tax in the state of Washington.
My LMC1200 is owned by a county agency and used for search and rescue and occasional winter mountain top radio tower access.
The general feeling I get from reading snowmobile forums is that groomed trails are a no no.
what PJL was saying is true
if your wanting to go on our Washington forest service land it is best to talk directly to them. each district seems to have different rules for the areas.
I was told this several years ago by them at a forest service meeting .I could go on any closed road and a closed road is one snowed in. unless it is gated or closed for wildlife. since then many changes have happened.
going up in the closed park permission is usually needed
Where can you use them?
I go on selected forest service roads near greenwater .
Here on the east side of the Cascades it is near impossible to run the snowcats on any state or federal roads during winter. Most roads are groomed for snowmobile, skiing, or other non-motorized recreational use. I am in the Methow Valley Ranger District and were given one major road to start out on and that we could take any side roads off of that main service road. When we started up that main road we quickly found all roads gated with a sign posted “Road closed for non motorized hunting and winter range”. No one at the ranger station informed us about this nor does their website list such a restriction for said roads.
Here is a link to a post started by Tracy Ross another snow cat user in the Methow Valley, maybe he will have additional information on the progress or lack thereof getting everybody more access.
Rob
Washington State Snowcat Owners?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...s.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=76251&share_type=t
Here is a link to a post started by Tracy Ross another snow cat user in the Methow Valley, maybe he will have additional information on the progress or lack thereof getting everybody more access.
Rob
Washington State Snowcat Owners?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...s.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=76251&share_type=t
Rob
truth is, without a seat at the table, snow cats will be frozen out and have no voice, and just about no one has an understanding about snow cats, that are making decisions about our usage
historically, with government agencies and utilities being the largest owners of snow cats, they had pretty much free range to use the snow cat where they wish too. Private owners were few and far between, so not an issue, and the biggest part, and very few rules about usage.
Then, things started to change, when snow mobiles really started to show up on the scene in big numbers and first thing that happened, was new rules, and that was only the start of rules and more rules, and bless their hearts, the snow mobile manufactures, organized with lobbyists and made sure the NEW rules did not have a negative effect on their products, and the snow cat manufactures did not, for the most part, choose not to address these new rules and the changing world of closed areas, limited usage, and off limit lands.
Utah is about the only state that I know of, that is open to snow cats and have the same rights as snowmobiles, with the only restriction is, stay off groomed trails, not sure why, but it is great and could be used to show how it can work without issues. pretty sure there are very few other states that are good for snow cattting, just not aware of any as open as Utah.
So. what to do, first, snow catters need to act respectful of the area we run in, and if in doubt, stay out, and ask for permission, I know...
one thing for sure, a rouge adventurer will affect all of us in a very negative way.
next, the forums do offer a chance to organize, at least a voice to represent the snow cat owner to the powers to be,
what does this look like? do not know, but I know the forum is a good place to start, think members need to get involved and at least start a conversation and just maybe a answer can be found and thus find a seat at the table.
please, comment and lets get a conversation started, otherwise...
truth is, without a seat at the table, snow cats will be frozen out and have no voice, and just about no one has an understanding about snow cats, that are making decisions about our usage
historically, with government agencies and utilities being the largest owners of snow cats, they had pretty much free range to use the snow cat where they wish too. Private owners were few and far between, so not an issue, and the biggest part, and very few rules about usage.
Then, things started to change, when snow mobiles really started to show up on the scene in big numbers and first thing that happened, was new rules, and that was only the start of rules and more rules, and bless their hearts, the snow mobile manufactures, organized with lobbyists and made sure the NEW rules did not have a negative effect on their products, and the snow cat manufactures did not, for the most part, choose not to address these new rules and the changing world of closed areas, limited usage, and off limit lands.
Utah is about the only state that I know of, that is open to snow cats and have the same rights as snowmobiles, with the only restriction is, stay off groomed trails, not sure why, but it is great and could be used to show how it can work without issues. pretty sure there are very few other states that are good for snow cattting, just not aware of any as open as Utah.
So. what to do, first, snow catters need to act respectful of the area we run in, and if in doubt, stay out, and ask for permission, I know...
one thing for sure, a rouge adventurer will affect all of us in a very negative way.
next, the forums do offer a chance to organize, at least a voice to represent the snow cat owner to the powers to be,
what does this look like? do not know, but I know the forum is a good place to start, think members need to get involved and at least start a conversation and just maybe a answer can be found and thus find a seat at the table.
please, comment and lets get a conversation started, otherwise...
Thanks for the info. This is all helpful. I don't own a snow cat at this time (I have only been here for a year, and space is limited in the city) but would love to find one again. The fire department that I worked for back east had one prior to switching to snowmobiles and UTVs with tracks, and we used one on our farm for working in the woods during maple sugaring season. I appreciate the info and look forward to any insight. Thanks again
vintagebike
Well-known member
The McCall Vintage SnowCat Club formed as a member of the Idaho State Snowmobile Association. One seat at the table that allowed us to get group event insurance coverage and access to the Wellington Snow Park this last February during McCallin’ All Cats 2018.
that makes you our unofficial fearless leader..........
thank you for the seat at the table
I have been duly informed that Colorado is wide out for snow catting and that they consider themselves the center of the snow cat universe...
also believe that, Wyoming/Montana is quite reasonable about snow cat usage, overall it looks like out west Washington and Idaho maybe the most restrictive...
also believe that, Wyoming/Montana is quite reasonable about snow cat usage, overall it looks like out west Washington and Idaho maybe the most restrictive...
tucker mule
New member
I tried to register my Sno Cat in Idaho and was told I did not need to register it in any way. It is considered a tracked piece of equipment just like a dozer or excavator. I was also told I was allowed to operate it any place regular travel was limited by snow depth to wheeled vehicles. This info came from the office in Orofino in person at the DMV office.
However - I do pull a blade behind my machine to smooth my passing. Tends to keep the folks on snow machines "grinnin". A log being drug will Help keep your out of state tires aired up as well..........
I was going to ask you if the log behind you is floating or secured to the turn plate, cat frame or ???
I went *packing* in a chain drive for the first time, I pulled a flat pan from the hitch, I see after walking the trails a bit that a comb mounted Loose or on a slider might really do a great job.
Im thinking to pull from the differential and lift to the hitch. I figure when i turn the comb would always be in alignment with the tracks, thus no offset.
do share.
I went *packing* in a chain drive for the first time, I pulled a flat pan from the hitch, I see after walking the trails a bit that a comb mounted Loose or on a slider might really do a great job.
Im thinking to pull from the differential and lift to the hitch. I figure when i turn the comb would always be in alignment with the tracks, thus no offset.
do share.
Upon looking up MI official rules for county, federal and state lands I found this:
short story:
https://www.fs.fed.us/news/releases...ver-snow-vehicles-national-forests-grasslands
Longer more detailed version:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2015-01-28/pdf/2015-01573.pdf
folks that state I can't OSV travel in __________ state, You need to ask your federal land managers exactly why not.
To the point, unless some local precedent was in place before 2015.....
another good point is non recreational use of Over the Snow Vehicle (OSV) Go gather fire wood.
;-)
short story:
https://www.fs.fed.us/news/releases...ver-snow-vehicles-national-forests-grasslands
Longer more detailed version:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2015-01-28/pdf/2015-01573.pdf
folks that state I can't OSV travel in __________ state, You need to ask your federal land managers exactly why not.
To the point, unless some local precedent was in place before 2015.....
another good point is non recreational use of Over the Snow Vehicle (OSV) Go gather fire wood.
;-)
I do believe Tracy had this info when he inquired at the Methow Valley Ranger District in Eastern Washington. They gave him the one road we could operate our OSV in their district. I think they decided that all areas were off limit for us which does satisfy terms of the court settlement.
As far a firewood cutting, that does fly in this area. They have limited all firewood cutting to May 1st to December 31st.
Well and of course there is this:
“The use of tractors, skidders, snowmobiles and bulldozers for harvest and removal of firewood is not allowed under this permit without the written permission of the Forest Service. The use of ATVs or UTVs for skidding is prohibited.”
I suppose you can take your chances and say it does not prohibit the use of OSVs.
Thebartman
Active member
In Montana my Imp is an "Oversnow Vehicle", the same as a snowmobile. Permenant registration. Groomed trails are ok if you buy the extra permit.
Cross country travel ok unless specific area is closed.
Cross country travel ok unless specific area is closed.