Tiling a bathroom floor

The linoleum in the kids bathroom has given up the ghost. It was in rough shape but is now coming un-glued.

I've never tiled anything before so I'm thinking this would be a good first project as I won't have to look at my mistakes that often.

It doesn't have to be the "best" quality - just "good enough". By "good enough" - I mean not leaking and ruining the house from two splashing kids.

Do I need to rip out the wood under the linoleum and replace it with concrete backerboard?

What about these underlayments that are supposed to work over wood - has anyone tried them? (See this article: http://floorelf.com/provaflex-vs-ditra)

I'm hoping to not have to rip everything out (especially the floor). Just tile the floor and either paint or re-stain the cabinets.

How many layers of subfloor do you have under the vinyl, and what are those layers (Plywod, OSB, Luan, tongue-n-groove)?

In bathroom or steam room applications I highly recommend Hardibacker under the tile. I've used it extensively and have had zero issues. It's nearly indestructible and takes special screws to put it down. However, once it's down, it does NOT move (which is what you want) and I've never had a single tile pop loose from it. I would not even remotely consider the old "concrete board" under a bathroom floor. Actually, after my experience with Hardibacker, I wouldn't use anything else unless I'm just tiling over concrete.

Dargo said:

In bathroom or steam room applications I highly recommend Hardibacker under the tile. I've used it extensively and have had zero issues. It's nearly indestructible and takes special screws to put it down. However, once it's down, it does NOT move (which is what you want) and I've never had a single tile pop loose from it. I would not even remotely consider the old "concrete board" under a bathroom floor. Actually, after my experience with Hardibacker, I wouldn't use anything else unless I'm just tiling over concrete.

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What he said ! IF you have a smooth surface I believe you could lay the hardiboard right over the old Lino .

I'm with Dargo on using the hardi-backer.

Out of curiosity, besides getting experience, why tile as opposed to new linoleum? We've been ripping our tile floors out in bathrooms and such. Cold and slippery...

Depending on what is under it you may need to take it out. Count on taking the molding off and pulling the toilet as it will make the job a lot simpler to do. If you have a good solid wood under the linoleum you can use the ditra type product to put the floor down. I did a lot of concrete board under tile and it is work to cut and screw it down good. It also does wonders to strengthen a springy floor. Once you tear the linoleum up try bouncing on the floor several places to see if it gives much. Count on possibly having to replace the toilet flange with a remodeling flange also. If it ever leaked or sweated much you may have to repair the floor as well. Have fun! My old knees will be thinking of you!

Crap. Maybe, I'll just do linoleum.

The current wood is some particle board crap. Do you just cut up to the tub and cabinetry then? Would one of these toe kick saws from HF do the trick?

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-...3-8-eighth-inch-blade-toe-kick-saw-94626.html

I was thinking of doing tile because I don't use this room much and if I screw it up (which I usually do the first time I do something) I won't have to see it very often.

Then I can do the other more visible tiling projects my wife wants done.

If it is particle board I would use the hard backer board over it. What size tiles are you looking at using?

jpr62902 said:

How many layers of subfloor do you have under the vinyl, and what are those layers (Plywod, OSB, Luan, tongue-n-groove)?

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I'm thinking it is Luan (assuming this is particle board type stuff) over OSB. Most the floors are OSB but the wood under the old lino looks like particle board.

So, perhaps I just have to cut off the first layer of this particle board stuff and then put down hardibacker.

It's going to suck sharing our bathroom with the kids while I do this.

muleman said:

If it is particle board I would use the hard backer board over it. What size tiles are you looking at using?

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I haven't really thought about it yet. Whatever is cheap at Home Depot or Lowes? Probably on the "small" side of tiles - not big huge ones.

It's not a big bathroom.

Take out the layer right beneath the vinyl and replace with cement board or hardibacker screwed to the OSB every 8". You don't the floor getting too thick, or your doors won't close.

I'd recommend taking out the commode and vanity, too. For cutting door jams, I'd use a Fein or Dremel Multi-max.

As for tile, use porcelain, not ceramic. Porcelain's colored all the way through, whereas if you chip ceramic, you're screwed.

Also, get a diamond blade for your angle grinder -- they work great on tile. But cut outside -- very dusty.

jpr62902 said:

Take out the layer right beneath the vinyl and replace with cement board or hardibacker screwed to the OSB every 8". You don't the floor getting too thick, or your doors won't close.

I'd recommend taking out the commode and vanity, too. For cutting door jams, I'd use a Fein or Dremel Multi-max.

As for tile, use porcelain, not ceramic. Porcelain's colored all the way through, whereas if you chip ceramic, you're screwed.

Also, get a diamond blade for your angle grinder -- they work great on tile. But cut outside -- very dusty.

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Thanks for the tips on porcelin vs. ceramic. I just need to find something that goes with the "almond"neutral colored tub, sink and toilet.

I was planning on removing the toilet. The vanity is too big and would be too much hassle to remove.

I have a big wet saw I can use to cut tiles and a Fein Multi-Master so I think I 'm good there.

PBinWA said:

I just need to find something that goes with the "almond"neutral colored tub, sink and toilet.

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I'd go with a chocolate and coconut scheme. Your bathroom will look delicious.

Start stocking up on pain meds now. Your knees will be screaming before you even get to the tile.

jpr62902 said:

I'd go with a chocolate and coconut scheme. Your bathroom will look delicious.

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Hmmm . . . . it is a kid's bathroom so I could probably get away with it!

You should see what color we had to work with..............lilac tub, toilet and sinks.

Ended up covering the tub and ripping out the sinks, vanity and toilet

OhioTC18 said:

You should see what color we had to work with..............lilac tub, toilet and sinks.

Ended up covering the tub and ripping out the sinks, vanity and toilet

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I've been tempted - the toilets really suck cause they have these push button things for flushing and the kids really struggle with them. The only upside is that it's less flushes for the septic system.

But then again, I'd rather buy a new gun then buy new toilets. And most importantly, my bathroom in the basement where my office is has a nice toilet with a good flusher handle. So it's really not a big issue for me.

Hell, while you're at it, just put in a urinal; I did. It cuts down on cleaning ten fold! I'm not kidding!! Seriously, do you pee more than you poo? No spatter and you save water to boot.

On the toilet, I've installed more than most people have sat on. Using Hardibacker will make it easy. Yes, you get to take the old "tawlet" (my wife's pronunciation) out either way. Hardibacker is almost unbreakable and only 1/4" thick. Concrete board will break on you no matter how careful you are and it's 1/2" thick. No comparison. Using Hardibacker all you have to do is use 2 was rings when you put your toilet back in and the toe kick saw will do the rest. You shouldn't have to trim the bottom of any doors.

Not counting other jobs I've done, I've put in about 4000 sq. ft. of either hardwood floor or tile or stone flooring in my home. We have almost no carpet except on steps and other small areas. I did the steps in my office in stone until my daughter fell when I was halfway finished. Even with rounded bullnose edges, she got hurt. I removed the stone and kept carpet on steps. In the guest house the floors are all stone like in my office.

In our master bath I went with marble and spent about a thousand hours doing intricate steps and designs with it making our large hot tub look like it was made especially for our master bath. I did entire rooms in far less time than just doing that whirlpool hot tub. But, hey, it's what the wife wanted and labor would have been 3/4 of the cost.

It's actually sort of satisfying after you get it done. That and we don't have near the dust we used to have. Just be sure to look up the correct instructions on cutting, installing and get the correct screws for the Hardibacker. Regular screws will either not penetrate it or will snap off. Have fun!

Take it from me and don't use the 2x2 tiles for your first project.
I'm with every body else use cement backer board. re screw the plywood down to the joists to make sure it is solid before you put board down.

Home depot will cut the tile for only straight cuts though you just bring back the receipt with the marked up tiles.

For the toilet flange they make a taller wax ring or a plastic riser to shim it up. leave 3/4 to 1" around toilet flange in case you have to replace it at some point in time, no one will see the gap and as my grandfather would say "this is one place you ain't building a watch", practice cutting the tiles there before you do any were else.

You will have to strike up a happy medium for the center lines if room isn't square and to minimize the slivers on an edges. I also try to lay them out for the best appeal at the threshold / most visible place

Carefully cut the door jams and put in a marble thresh hold to make a good transition between surfaces again HD will cut to length.

Don't forget you will need longer supply pipes for the toilet and vanity and a longer tail piece extension for sink trap.

Did any one else say "KNEE PADS"!

tom

i've installed a couple of these floors over some real crapola existing tile floors. It's a floating, water resistant flooring material that installs with few tools. Take a look at it before overspending. You still have to lift the toilet, but this stuff goes down real easy, and is available in many patterns and colors, including faux wood.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...llure&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

JEV said:

i've installed a couple of these floors over some real crapola existing tile floors. It's a floating, water resistant flooring material that installs with few tools. Take a look at it before overspending. You still have to lift the toilet, but this stuff goes down real easy, and is available in many patterns and colors, including faux wood.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...llure&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

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Wow - that may be the ticket.

I'm kind of burned out on renovating this house. Quick and easy is looking pretty good these days.

I think I'll stop by HD and check out what it looks like.

Thanks!

JEV said:

i've installed a couple of these floors over some real crapola existing tile floors. It's a floating, water resistant flooring material that installs with few tools. Take a look at it before overspending. You still have to lift the toilet, but this stuff goes down real easy, and is available in many patterns and colors, including faux wood.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...llure&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

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So how forgiving is the Allure stuff during installation? I've done the adhesive vinyl tiles and if they aren't lined up perfectly you pretty much have to destroy them to remove them.

PBinWA said:

Wow - that may be the ticket.

I'm kind of burned out on renovating this house. Quick and easy is looking pretty good these days.

I think I'll stop by HD and check out what it looks like.

Thanks!

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Please let us know what you find out PB . I,m in the same boat & doing quite a few remodeling projects & I really like the looks of that type of flooring .

That stuff is very similar to the floating floor I installed. Only it is in different sized sheets. Have you ever worked with floating floor? It's not hard to install once you get going. It might be a pain though in a smaller room like a bathroom. You likely wouldn't need more than a couple boxes to do a bathroom floor. One thing you need to do with any type of floating floor is bring it in the house and let it condition itself for at least 24 hours before you begin cutting it. I've seen guys spend a bunch of $ on this stuff, bring it in the house and install it right away without letting it condition itself to the humidity and heat in the room, then the stuff either swells and buckles or it shrinks and the joints between the panels separate. Make dame sure you get the waterproof stuff if you're doing it in the bathroom otherwise water will swell it and you'll be cursing it.

PBinWA said:

So how forgiving is the Allure stuff during installation? I've done the adhesive vinyl tiles and if they aren't lined up perfectly you pretty much have to destroy them to remove them.

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I have a vacation home and installed Allure in a kitchen, bath, laundry room, and hallway.

You can pull the tiles apart if you have to, but you have to do it slowly. I learned to keep the wax paper (that comes between the tiles) on the seams until I was sure the tile was in the right place, then slowly slid the wax paper out. You can also heat the seams with a heat gun (or hair dryer) to make small adjustments.

One problem with the Allure: when the temperature in the house changes, the seams will open. Since this is a vacation home, I don't keep it at a constant temperature. Just noticed last weekend that the seams in the kitchen have opened up some. They did that last winter but closed up in the spring.

It is a good product that is easy to install (compared to ceramic or hardwood.) It is tough to cut so have a good supply of sharp blades on hand; and have a good straight edge; and don't get in a hurry.

I removed all the baseboard molding; door jams; and toilets. I did not remove the bathroom cabinet nor the kitchen cabinets. The baseboard molding covered the gap between the floor and wall.

Bob

PBinWA said:

So how forgiving is the Allure stuff during installation? I've done the adhesive vinyl tiles and if they aren't lined up perfectly you pretty much have to destroy them to remove them.

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The trickiest part is aligning the pieces together, but that's more patience than skill. There is a demo video at Home Depot that shows how it's done. Once the two pieces are together, they are NOT coming apart. Like a laminate floor, the edges are finished with quarter round molding or shoe molding, so there is a little gap all around the floor. If you take your time you should have no problems. The first floor I installed took me twice as long as the second floor, because I was learning as I went. By the end of the first job, which had a lot of cuts and angles, I was quite confident to move to the next job. Like groomer said, it does need 24 hours in the house to acclimate, especially if it's cold outside. Go look at the video and decide for yourself if you feel comfortable trying it out.

JEV said:

The trickiest part is aligning the pieces together, but that's more patience than skill. There is a demo video at Home Depot that shows how it's done. Once the two pieces are together, they are NOT coming apart. Like a laminate floor, the edges are finished with quarter round molding or shoe molding, so there is a little gap all around the floor. If you take your time you should have no problems. The first floor I installed took me twice as long as the second floor, because I was learning as I went. By the end of the first job, which had a lot of cuts and angles, I was quite confident to move to the next job. Like groomer said, it does need 24 hours in the house to acclimate, especially if it's cold outside. Go look at the video and decide for yourself if you feel comfortable trying it out.

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Good info Jev Thanks , I cant find the video though in that link though Or do you have to actually got to the store ?

Cowboy said:

Good info Jev Thanks , I cant find the video though in that link though Or do you have to actually got to the store ?

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On this page:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...llure&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

There are six pictures with text in the middle of the page. Bottom row middle picture - look at the bottom of the text.

It's not super obvious but its there.

PBinWA said:

On this page:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...llure&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

There are six pictures with text in the middle of the page. Bottom row middle picture - look at the bottom of the text.

It's not super obvious but its there.

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Thanks PB , Found it & watched it . I dont know about you but I,m sold on it , sure looks like it beats any other flooring system I,ve seen & very reasonable as well . Thanks Jev for the post & sorry for the thread jack PB