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Court strikes FCC's power to regulate net neutrality...

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
Drudge is hailing this as some kind of victory. Yes it's a victory for the internet providers who will get to pick and choose what you see on the internet. Thankfully they won on a technicality, and hopefully congress will start addressing this matter.

Court: FCC has no power to regulate Net neutrality

by Declan McCullaghThe Federal Communications Commission does not have the legal authority to impose strict Net neutrality regulations on Internet providers, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.
A three-judge panel in Washington, D.C. unanimously tossed out the FCC's August 2008 cease and desist order against Comcast, which had taken measures to slow BitTorrent transfers and had voluntarily ended them earlier in the year.
Because the FCC "has failed to tie its assertion" of regulatory authority to any actual law enacted by Congress, the agency does not have the authority to regulate an Internet provider's network management practices, wrote Judge David Tatel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20001825-38.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yes, internet providers get to pick and choose what we see on the internet. Thank goodness for that. It also allows us to pick and choose our internet providers!!!

So while you may want one thing from the internet, and your neighbor may want something completely different, you now, under this ruling, can choose which ISP you want to support to attain that which you choose to have.

Not sure why congress should get involved in that.

Perhaps a Mormon neighbor wants a porn free internet experience for his family, he can choose an ISP that eliminates as much porn as possible. Perhaps a libertarian atheist wants to have unfettered internet browsing and chooses a different ISP that offers a different browsing experience. Etc etc etc. . .
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I live in a rural area, I know of 3 high speed ISPs available right now. (that I know of, there could be more!)

I'm hoping that, at some point in the future we have even more choices. It would be nice if we had a cable TV provider or even the availability of ISDN via the phone company, but at this juncture we don't have those options.
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
Yep, in the future you'll be able to pick one of the 200 cables criss-crossing your neighborhood. Until then the internet should be open to everyone.

trukteydjfsghdcgfvc.jpg
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Yep, in the future you'll be able to pick one of the 200 cables criss-crossing your neighborhood. Until then the internet should be open to everyone.

We have no cables criss-crossing our neighborhood.

And I have the choice of internet offerings.

The lawsuit you posted would have limited my choices.

I guess I really do not understand why you want to take away my choices by giving the government to ability to rule what my ISP must do.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
How is 'Net Neutrality' a good thing?

I simply don't understand. So I went to the Drudge website to see to what they are linking. The story is actually from C|Net (because Drudge doesn't actually report anything, he just links to topical stories). Here is the story. It seems like this concept of 'Net Neutrality' is a really bad thing!!!
C|Net said:
Court: FCC has no power to regulate Net neutrality
by Declan McCullagh
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20001825-38.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

The Federal Communications Commission does not have the legal authority to slap Net neutrality regulations on Internet providers, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

A three-judge panel in Washington, D.C. unanimously tossed out the FCC's August 2008 cease and desist order against Comcast, which had taken measures to slow BitTorrent transfers and had voluntarily ended them earlier that year.

Because the FCC "has failed to tie its assertion" of regulatory authority to any actual law enacted by Congress, the agency does not have the authority to regulate an Internet provider's network management practices, wrote Judge David Tatel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

Tuesday's decision could doom one of the signature initiatives of FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski, a Democrat. Last October, Genachowski announced plans to begin drafting a formal set of Net neutrality rules--even though Congress has not given the agency permission to begin.
(Verizon Communications CEO Ivan Seidenberg has said that new regulations would stifle innovative technologies like telemedicine.)
Even though liberal advocacy groups had urged the FCC to take action against Comcast, the agency's vote to proceed was a narrow 3-2, with the dissenting commissioners predicting at the time that it would not hold up in court. FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell, a Republican, said at the time that the FCC's ruling was unlawful and the lack of legal authority "is sure to doom this order on appeal."

Net neutrality proponents responded on Tuesday by saying the FCC should slap landline-style regulations on Internet providers, which could involve price regulation, service quality controls, and technological mandates. The agency "should immediately start a proceeding bringing Internet access service back under some common carrier regulation," Public Knowledge's Gigi Sohn said. The Media Access Project said, without mentioning common carrier regulations directly, that the FCC must have the "ability to protect the rights of Internet users to access lawful content and services of their choice."

The ruling also is likely to shift the debate to whether Congress will choose to explicitly grant the FCC the authority to regulate companies' network management practices. It will also likely revive lobbying coalitions that have been defunct for the last few years.

In 2006, Congress rejected five bills, backed by groups including Google, Amazon.com, Free Press, and Public Knowledge, that would have handed the FCC the power to police Net neutrality violations. Even though the Democrats have enjoyed a majority on Capitol Hill since 2007, the political leadership has shown little interest in resuscitating those proposals.

"We must decide whether the Federal Communications Commission has authority to regulate an Internet service provider's network management practices," Tatel wrote in his 36-page opinion. "The Commission may exercise this 'ancillary' authority only if it demonstrates that its action--here barring Comcast from interfering with its customers' use of peer-to-peer networking applications--is 'reasonably ancillary to the...effective performance of its statutorily mandated responsibilities.'"

In August 2005, the FCC adopted a set of principles saying "consumers are entitled to run applications and use services of their choice." But the principles also permit providers' "reasonable network management" and, confusingly, the FCC admitted on the day of their adoption that the guidelines "are not enforceable."

The FCC's 2008 vote to punish Comcast stems from a request from Free Press and its political allies, including some Yale, Harvard, and Stanford law school faculty.

This is not the first time that the FCC has been rebuked for enacting regulations without any actual legal authority to do so. In 2005, the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled the agency did not have the authority to draft its so-called broadcast flag rule. And a federal appeals court in Pennsylvania ruled in the Janet Jackson nipple exposure incident that the FCC's sanctions against CBS--which publishes CNET News--amounted to an "arbitrary and capricious change of policy."
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
Net neutrality is a good thing because everyone gets equal access. It keeps large corporations from buying up bandwidth in an attempt to squash their competition. It also keeps little sites like the one we're on from getting pushed aside in favor of those with an agenda and big pockets.
 

Glink

Active member
Site Supporter
If Televsion networks and Radio networks get to choose the content they provide to their customers, why would it be any different for an internet provider?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Net neutrality is a good thing because everyone gets equal access. It keeps large corporations from buying up bandwidth in an attempt to squash their competition. It also keeps little sites like the one we're on from getting pushed aside in favor of those with an agenda and big pockets.
Hmm . . . I do understand that someone could buy bandwidth but the reality is that if that happened at my provider I would simply switch providers. The free choices that I enjoy to support the businesses that provide me the best services should not be infringed.

As for your argument about the "agenda" issue, that is, to dredge up an old term, pure poppycock. Let's say that The Daily Kos purchased up 50% of the bandwidth, it doesn't mean that I'd spend 50% of my time on their website. Just because some folks try to control ideas doesn't mean that people will accept those ideas. I'd have no problem if there was a LIBERAL ISP, a CONSERVATIVE ISP, a JEWISH ISP, a CATHOLIC ISP, an ATHEIST ISP or any other type of ISP. When the free market allows for specialty service, it also allows for generic service, premium service and unfettered service. Let them all compete. I like choices.


If Televsion networks and Radio networks get to choose the content they provide to their customers, why would it be any different for an internet provider?
And to this I agree.
 

Glink

Active member
Site Supporter
Forced neutrality..............forced equality.........the fairness doctrine......no moron left behind.........zero tolerance....more of the same old horse squeeze. All of these concepts are pushed forward by groups who know their ideas will not hold up in the marketplace of free enterprise. They require, no they demand, that government step in to level the playing field. And once again we as a whole are reduced to the lowest common denominator that exists among us.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
Drudge is hailing this as some kind of victory. Yes it's a victory for the internet providers who will get to pick and choose what you see on the internet. Thankfully they won on a technicality, and hopefully congress will start addressing this matter.
My, my, my. You just can't get your belly full enough of gubment, can you? Is gubment the answer for everything that you can't have your way?
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
I can't understand why anybody would want their ISP dictating the content they get. The FCC is for an open pipeline, you know, freedom. If you are against net neutrality then you are for corporations telling you what is more important for you to see on the Internet. I'd rather have the government protecting my freedom than big business restricting it. Conservatives are a funny sort.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
I can't understand why anybody would want their ISP dictating the content they get. The FCC is for an open pipeline, you know, freedom. If you are against net neutrality then you are for corporations telling you what is more important for you to see on the Internet. I'd rather have the government protecting my freedom than big business restricting it. Conservatives are a funny sort.
Tell me what you cannot get from your ISP because Nanny Net is not in force?
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
My, my, my. You just can't get your belly full enough of gubment, can you? Is gubment the answer for everything that you can't have your way?

JEV you are very proud of the work you did for our government to protect our freedom, but you are against another branch of government protecting our freedom in a different manner. I don't understand this.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
I can't understand why anybody would want their ISP dictating the content they get. The FCC is for an open pipeline, you know, freedom. If you are against net neutrality then you are for corporations telling you what is more important for you to see on the Internet. I'd rather have the government protecting my freedom than big business restricting it. Conservatives are a funny sort.

No, you seem to misunderstand.

Net Neutrality may provide some benefits like POTENTIALLY preventing bottlenecks if someone buys a bunch of bandwidth, but that is not a real life problem for most users. Oh, and it provides the benefit of POTENTIALLY preventing a provider from limiting some types of content, but again that does not actually seem to be happening in the real world of internet providers.

But if I was so inclined then why should I not sign up with an ISP that limits porn? Or if I was so inclined then why should I not sign up with an ISP that limits hate speak? Of if I was so inclined then why should I not sign up with an ISP that only provides good clean Christian fun? Or if I was so inclined then why should I not sign up with an ISP that restricts those things that my faith and my family oppose? Why do you want to limit my choices?

What is also does is POTENTIALLY open up a whole world of government interference that we'd rather not face. That is the consistent message of the conservatives. Leave us alone. Let us have our choices and let us make our own choices.

That which you see as a benefit we see as burden.

You liberals have a funny idea about what benefits us. How about instead of imposing your Net Neutrality law upon us you just go start up your own ISP and have it function the way you want it to? Then if people like what you offer they will choose your service. And if not then you still have your idea of utopia. :hammer:
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
Tell me what you cannot get from your ISP because Nanny Net is not in force?

I don't use BitTorrent much, but I have used it, and many people use it regularly as an efficient way to transfer large files.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
I can't understand why anybody would want their ISP dictating the content they get. The FCC is for an open pipeline, you know, freedom. If you are against net neutrality then you are for corporations telling you what is more important for you to see on the Internet. I'd rather have the government protecting my freedom than big business restricting it. Conservatives are a funny sort.
No, we are for the right of the individual to choose. Not some government bureaucrat.
 

RobsanX

Gods gift to common sense
SUPER Site Supporter
No, we are for the right of the individual to choose. Not some government bureaucrat.

It's the FCC trying to protect your right to choose what you want to do on the internet. Comcast has said that if you choose to use BitTorrent we're going to slow it down so it's unusable, but you still get to pay full price.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
It's the FCC trying to protect your right to choose what you want to do on the internet. Comcast has said that if you choose to use BitTorrent we're going to slow it down so it's unusable, but you still get to pay full price.

So. BitTorrent is a bandwidth hog. You are using the ISP's bandwith, you pay for it with your monthly fee. Many already have some limits on how much you can use. People who use BitTorrent can literally slow down the service to their neighbor's homes because they are hogging so much bandwidth. So why is it unfair for the provider to say that it doesn't have a right to put limits on some types of programs?

And why should the government get involved in this? If you want to use BitTorrent then find an ISP that is more supportive of that software. Seriously use your own brain, seek out alternatives, weight their advantages and disadvantages as you see them, and make a rational choice on your own. You don't need Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and the host of clowns in Washington to "fix" that which is not broken.
 

Glink

Active member
Site Supporter
It's the FCC trying to protect your right to choose what you want to do on the internet. Comcast has said that if you choose to use BitTorrent we're going to slow it down so it's unusable, but you still get to pay full price.

But you have the right to choose; and you do not need the FCC's permission or help. You have the freedom to quit using Comcast don't you? If enough people do that, will that not force them to change their position? Eventually would not another ISP step in to fill the void left by so many unserved potential customers?
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
But you have the right to choose; and you do not need the FCC's permission or help. You have the freedom to quit using Comcast don't you? If enough people do that, will that not force them to change their position? Eventually would not another ISP step in to fill the void left by so many unserved potential customers?

Oh, silly you, that is the FREE MARKET, it won't ever work. The primary argument against Net Neutrality is the simplest: the rules are a waste of time and energy. The internet has existed in its current commercialized form for over 20 years, no way can that happen in the FREE MARKET.

So far in the thread we have learned that net neutrality saves us from fear that ISPs will institute draconian measures that slow down service or censor certain content. Oh my, but without government intervention, customers will be impeded or blocked from reaching perfectly legal content. That's overblown. Free market principles prevent any rational company from arbitrarily blocking its customers. Those customers would simply go to another ISP. The government's only role should be to insure that such a free market exists, unhindered by monopolistic behavior, collusion, and the like. But not be telling companies how to run their business.
 

JEV

Mr. Congeniality
GOLD Site Supporter
JEV you are very proud of the work you did for our government to protect our freedom, but you are against another branch of government protecting our freedom in a different manner. I don't understand this.
I did not spend four years in the USAF to bolster the government. I did it to protect our freedom from enemies, foreign and domestic. As a member of the TEA Party movement, I am again working to protect our freedoms from our domestic enemies, the liberal democrats and the Obama socialist agenda. Are you feeling safer today because Obama is shutting down our nuclear deterrent? Silly me, of course YOU are.

All the FCC is seeking is more control, which equates to further erosion of freedom. You just keep on asking for more government in your life, and you're liable to get more than you bargained for.
 

loboloco

Well-known member
It's the FCC trying to protect your right to choose what you want to do on the internet. Comcast has said that if you choose to use BitTorrent we're going to slow it down so it's unusable, but you still get to pay full price.
So, choose another ISP. No one holds a gun to your head and makes you use it. Freedom of choice.
Bureaucrats get involved, some service you want can no longer be accessed on any ISP. No more choice.
 

Melensdad

Jerk in a Hawaiian Shirt & SNOWCAT Moderator
Staff member
GOLD Site Supporter
Well apparently the folks here on the FORUMS FORUMS are in good company with the majority of the nation.

From Rasmussen: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...2010/53_oppose_fcc_regulation_of_the_internet
Just 27% of Americans now believe the Federal Communications Commission should regulate the Internet like it does television and radio. That marks a 22-point drop in support for federal regulation of the Internet since June 2008.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 53% of adults oppose FCC regulation of the Internet, with another 19% not sure whether it’s a good idea or not.

Among those who use the Internet every or nearly every day, opposition to FCC regulation rises to 63%.
 

Cityboy

Banned
I did not spend four years in the USAF to bolster the government.

I did not spend 4 years in the USMC to have private corporations and other monied interests buy my elected representatives and dictate to them how to run our country as a corporotocracy.
 
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